Newly-appointed Leader of the House of Commons — Penny Mordaunt — has criticised the Spanish customs authorities for slapping a group of charity cyclists from Wales with a £7,330 tariff when collecting their bikes ahead of a 600-mile ride raising money for Prostate Cymru, an unexpected fee which may see the club forced to fold.
Addressing the House of Commons for the first time in her new role, the former minister for international trade said the charge was “outrageous” and vowed to “do all I can to help to resolve and get compensation for the group”.
Cyclists from the Tap It Out club, based out of a pub in Pyle, Bridgend, flew to Santander, in Cantabria on Spain’s north coast, ahead of the challenge, while their bikes arrived by ferry.
> Cycling club arrives in Spain for charity ride… hit with £7,000 bike customs charge
However, the bikes were seized and the group told to pay “in excess of €10,000”. Tap It Out considered abandoning the charity venture but ultimately paid €8,500 (£7,330) out of the club’s accounts to get their bikes back, a decision head of the group, Nicky Morgan, said might “fold the club — shut it down”.
The club received backing from Welsh politician Huw Irranca-Davies and Labour MP Chris Elmore who raised the situation with Mordaunt in Parliament this week. He said:
At the weekend, a group of cyclists from my constituency and the constituency of Dr Wallis were doing a fundraiser for Prostate Cymru, travelling from Wales to Portugal. When they arrived at customs in Santander, their bikes were seized and they were asked to pay in excess of €10,000 to release the bikes for the fundraising effort. Clearly, that has had a huge impact on the fundraising; the cyclists ended up paying €8,500 to release the bikes, which the whole House will agree is appalling.
It appears that it was to do with a post-Brexit form linked to importers trying to sell goods in Spain, but clearly this was a cycling fundraising event. I would be grateful if the Leader of the House could make representations to the Foreign Secretary about providing more support to charities such as Prostate Cymru about what forms need to be completed, and about working with the Spanish Government to ensure that does not happen again to much-needed funds for charities.
In response, Mordaunt said she was “sorry” to hear of the charge and insisted there was “no reason” for it, slamming it as “outrageous”. Mordaunt said:
I am very sorry to hear of that. There is no reason why they should have had that difficulty — it is outrageous. I take this opportunity to remind hon. Members about the excellent consular service that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office runs.
I had an incident where a constituent was in real danger. Through the consular service, within half an hour of me making that initial call, the local police force in the United States was on that individual’s doorstep. I encourage people to use that facility, and I will do all I can to help to resolve and get compensation for the group of cyclists.
“My jaw just dropped”
Head of the group, Mr Morgan told the BBC that organising the trip had been “really stressful” without the added inconvenience and had been rescheduled twice due to Covid.
“We were doing a charity event. It never entered our minds that we were going to sell bikes or be accused of selling bikes. My jaw just dropped,” he said.
Another of the riders, Rhys Lloyd, said he was representing his dad who usually rides with the club but is too ill to participate in this one. Mr Lloyd feels like the group has been “held for ransom” and paying the tariff will “bleed a big hole into the club”. Another rider, who lost his mum and colleagues to cancer, said he just wanted to “raise funds and awareness”.
48 thoughts on “Penny Mordaunt criticises “outrageous” £7,000 bike customs charge charity cyclists hit with in Spain”
I note the new cabinet, which
I note the new cabinet, which has not yet been approved by the Monarch, does not have a Brexit opportunities Minister.
Good luck with that refund. Although, I dare say that the EU may be nice and refund them, it really doesn’t have to.
Pretty sure the Cabinet has
Pretty sure the Cabinet has been approved (by the previous Monarch, of course) and that there was no plan to retain a Brexit Opportunities Minister. However, I think there is an issue that not all the junior Minister roles had been filled and there may be some delay in doing so now.
they’ve filled the junior
they’ve filled the junior role of Rees Mogg’s sommelier at least
https://twitter.com/Parody_PM/status/1567554263634649092
Or does sommelier not extend to bottled water?
As usual, I bet the gutter
As usual, I bet the gutter press have only covered half the story. Did the club follow the correct procedure? Probably not. Did they even check on any restrictions? Probably not. Sorry but that chucks the ball into their court.
Did they comply? They the Spanish are wrong . Easy really isn’t it?
Until this is is known comenting is somewhat pointless surely?5
Carnets are nothing new so why get stressed?
Can the minister also
Can the minister also reimburse all those other businesses that incorrectly or failed to fill out paperwork when exporting product, and had it returned to them or were imposed VAT and import charges when sending their goods abroad?
If the club had looked into what they were doing, the whole sad and sorry affair could have been overcome by filling out the proper forms to state they were bringing the bikes in and taking them back again.
Maybe what we can do as a cycling community is create a go fund me page and raise the money to avoid the club folding. If the money is reclaimed from Sapnish customs, it and any excess from a go fund me page can go to the very worthy charity.
Business rules generally are
Business rules generally are different from consumer rules, indeed the whole underlying logic of consumer legislation is that businesses can either employ people with the correct knowledge for the job or can pay someone to get it whereas the consumer does not have that access.
So comparing the problems of businesses in dealing with bureaucracy to private individuals doesn’t really work.
Businesses problems generally have been three-fold – lack of any information from Government, lack of infrastructure being implemented to support businesses, and the excessive costs of paperwork, fees and taxes. The public got caught with those for personal imports, but most people have got the message now – don’t buy directly from abroad due to unknown tax and duties, the lack of enforceable consumer legislation and the inability to economically return faulty goods. Businesses are discovering that having being built on international trade for 40 years, with the encouragement of Government, they don’t have the option to withdraw into trading in Britain, so are either not viable or alternatively they need to move abroad or set up partnerships with foreign agents which in turn means sharing the profits of their labour.
Having said that, I think we are all owed a few years’ taxes back as we were supposedly buying a competent government (that would “get Brexit done”) with that money and instead it seems we were sold a bunch of chancers who apparently signed off a legally binding contract without understanding it, or worse and more likely, understanding it, but lying about what they had agreed to and signing it anyway with the intent of breaking that contract.
Onerous paperwork was always going to be the result of leaving the single market and pretending that it is the nasty old EU’s fault for wanting to keep the benefits of membership for its members is, as the analogy has been told many times, like resigning from the golf club, not wanting to pay any fees then complaining that the bastards won’t let you have a round of golf as and when you want, and now they are telling people that they are going to use the course anyway because the golf club are some metropolitan elite so breaking the rules doesn’t count.
Be fair – the bellends that
Be fair – the bellends that voted them in knew what they were going to get. Elect a clown, expect a circus.
Cult of Brexit – constant
Cult of Brexit – constant denial that Brexit is the cause of the problem.
Is every Tory MP a Brexit cultist at this point?
Secret_squirrel wrote:
hopefully all the centre right tories have seen the party for the brexit cultists they have become and have left/no longer vote for them.
“There is no reason why they
“There is no reason why they should have had that difficulty”
Sadly there is. They needed to fill out a form (and pay over £300 for the privilege of doing so) to avoid the charge. Why? Brexit, of course. But this isn’t the first time she’s lied about that, and I doubt it’ll be the last.
AidanR wrote:
So £300 for a vehicle load of bikes complying with the Carnet rules; weight, value, type of goods, country of origin, or £7,000 for not complying , hmm, let me think what I would do…
Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance
So what you are saying is
So what you are saying is “Brexit can be significantly less shit if you just go to the effort of becoming an expert on international customs paperwork”.
Mungecrundle wrote:
Does knowing the weight, value, type of goods, country of origin of your bike make you an expert?
Does putting these data in a form table make you an expert?
Or is that similar to making a shopping list…
How does that follow from
How does that follow from anything posted ???
filling in the form ->straight forward
knowing that you have to do this -> not straight forward.
Still sounds like a lot more
Still sounds like a lot more effort and at least £300 for absolutely no benefit to anyone compared to before.
Quite. A Carnet costs £310 +
Quite. A Carnet costs £310 + VAT (so £372). In addition they would need to pay a deposit equal to the tax at risk (so £7,330). They could have avoided these charges by flying with their own bikes (but many airlines have a maximum number of bikes they can accept so this would involve travelling separately), or by sailing with their bikes. I don’t know whether flying was for convenience or cost, but either way, the additional cost and/or inconvenience would not have applied before we became a third country.
You need a bit of knowledge
You need a bit of knowledge for that though, It’s not really something that is obvious or likely for recreation users – they are not businesses.
Far from reducing red tape brexit has increased it. You only need to follow the tweets of Daniel Lambert (Wines) to read of what is required in just the wine industry.
Mordant is just playing to the crowd and continuing in the government denial of the consequences of brexit.
lonpfrb wrote:
So £300 for a vehicle load of bikes complying with the Carnet rules; weight, value, type of goods, country of origin, or £7,000 for not complying , hmm, let me think what I would do…
Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance— AidanR
I’m sure they would have too, with the benefit of hindsight. But that’s not the point, really, is it? If we’d remained in the customs union there would have been no issue, and we also wouldn’t have a shit show in Northern Ireland.
AidanR wrote:
So £300 for a vehicle load of bikes complying with the Carnet rules; weight, value, type of goods, country of origin, or £7,000 for not complying , hmm, let me think what I would do…
Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance— lonpfrb I’m sure they would have too, with the benefit of hindsight. But that’s not the point, really, is it? If we’d remained in the customs union there would have been no issue, and we also wouldn’t have a shit show in Northern Ireland.— AidanR
That easy to say, with the benefit of hindsight
A politician lying? Surely
A politician lying? Surely not.
A Brexit supporting
A Brexit supporting politician is denying that the Brexit she wanted is causing problems for UK nationals in effect, despite the fact that had the UK remained in the EU, this wouldn’t have happened.
If only the cost to the UK of
If only the cost to the UK of Brexit was confined to a trifling £7k.
The rules for taking sports
The rules for taking sports equipment to Europe now are quite frankly a nightmare – my rowing club spent a huge chunk of money and an enormous amount of time getting our two trailers to Spain for training camp earlier this year. The ‘carnet’ requirements to prove you’re not taking stuff to Europe to sell are insane; we had to detail every item on the trailers and there was a moment where the guys driving them were asked to unload the boats, which would have been impossible as there were four of them and it takes a couple of hours for 20-30 people to load the trailers in the first place. And then you have to make sure that everything goes back in the same place, so they can inspect to make sure you really haven’t sold anything.
Hadn’t thought that the same rules would apply to bikes, but I guess it kind of makes a post-Brexit warped sense.
The rules are not ‘now quite
The rules are not ‘now quite frankly a nightmare’. The rules were always there and apply to all 3rd countries. The UK was conned into believeing that leaving the EU would ‘bring back their freedom’. Exactly the opposite happened – you lost your freedom.
In the interest of pedantry –
In the interest of pedantry – we haven’t lost freedom. There are fewer rules we need to abide by (or could be; I think many EU rules were added to UK law at transition to maintain continuity). However access to some EU resources was lost and many interactions with the EU and others are now much more onerous and expensive.
I wasn’t sold on the advantage of this change – nor were others in Scotland overall. However we’re currently in another union… and people in England definitely did say “leave”. So here we are.
In the interests of pedantry
In the interests of pedantry let’s be pedantic. Prior to your brexitty thing you were free to take your bikes to Spain. And you you could have sold your bikes in a local market or on a local exchange site. Or you could a bought a bike and cycled it back to wherever you chose in the EU. You could have walked into Spain with 1 euro in your pocket or 1000 Euros. You were free to sit on the beach all day and busk for a living or you could have set up a business or invested in someone else’s business. You were free to open a bank account. You were free to drive with your own licence and all your qualifications were recognised locally. You could have bought a second home and spent six months of the year watching the sunset. You could have bought five homes and rented them out to holiday makers. You could visit the local hospital free of charge. You were free to send your children to school without anyone asking you for a residency permit. You were free to study in any university in Spain and you would have received the same grants and terms as a local. You were free to come and go in 27 neighbouring countries as you wished and with as many bikes as you could carry. Many of those things can still be done. But you require permissions and there are limits, restrictions and costs attached.
BIRMINGHAMisaDUMP wrote:
Pfffft – those are not the freedoms that a huge majority voted for in a completely frank and honest referendum.
I’ve never been sure exactly
I’ve never been sure exactly why most people in England and Wales voted for this.
Short term there are some obvious losses to individuals / businesses. However not everyone was using these “freedoms”. Clearly they weren’t the main thing the majority of “No” voters were worried about. In the longer term there is gain is in local political freedom as we can take more imporant decisions e.g. different laws from the rest of the union.
My main beef with Brexit was that our Westminster politicians would set about using their new-found freedoms to do things I’m not keen on – such as reducing people’s rights and reducing checks on large corporations* etc. That seems to apply at least in part to both main Westminster parties. Looking at countries like Hungary and Poland – “socially conservative” with some particular economics – makes you wonder what Brexiteers felt they were missing?
Done deal now though.
* Over whom we’ve even less control than we have over the state.
chrisonatrike wrote:
My opinion is that the majority of Brexit voters did it because of immigration. I’m not saying that everyone who voted for it is racist, but the racists were pro-Brexit.
hawkinspeter wrote:
I think some leave voters did it for racist reasons but that just goes to show how ignorant racist people are.
Our immigration system while in the EU made immigration from majority white countries unlimited where as immigration from majority non white countries was constantly made more difficult so the goverment could claim to be in control of immigration numbers.
Obviously I’m basing this on what I think most people would consider racism, not the legal definition. I only discovered the legal definition when i first joined this site and questioned why the Welsh driver who told a cyclist “go back to England” or something similar was convicted of racist abuse.
NOtotheEU wrote:
Exactly this.
NOtotheEU wrote:
Probably the only time racists and people of asian descent were on the same side of the argument.
Racists were sold on controlling immigration.
People from South Asian communities wanted it to be easier for their friends and relatives to come, by removing the advantages of EU nationals.
Well, the fact the rules now
Well, the fact the rules now apply to us is a nightmare – or at the least a massive, expensive headache which many of us did not vote for. Many of us were aware that we would lose a lot of freedom by leaving, which is why we voted to stay. We lost, and we lost more than just that vote.
This surely has an impact on
This surely has an impact on the number of British cyclists who will now be willing to sign up for events in Spain, whether they be cycling events like the Mallorca 312, international events like European or world triathlon championships or other international events.
I don’t believe post covid Spain would want their tourism industry impacted by the actions of their customs officials.
I doubt cyclist income is a
I doubt cyclist income is a big deal for Spain.
As I understand it – the cyclists didn’t fill out the right paperwork. I’m sure British customs would be as inflexible.
At least the publicity of this should ensure others don’t make this mistake.
not many people taking vans
not many people taking vans full of bikes to mallorca. Anyone travelling on a flight with their own bike will be fine. (aside from baggage handling issues, which this group were probably trying to avoid)
This situation is entirely
This situation is entirely the fault of our government.
They should have been fully aware of these sorts of risks and properly publicised them before we left the single market. But of course they didn’t want to because they don’t want to admit there are any downsides to their glorious Brexit. It’s so much easier to blame the foreigners for being difficult.
Capercaillie wrote:
Not so sir. The EU rules for carrying bikes, motorbikes, cars and other forms of sporting/leisure vehicles into the EU are available online and seem clear to me. These rules were negotiated by the UK government well in advance of Brexit.
Article 158(2) of the Union Customs Code 1 along with Articles 139(1) and 141(1) (d) (iv) spell it out. In addition to this the European Commission recently issued an unequivocal statement on the matter and I quote, “Means of transport entering the EU temporarily and returning to the UK after a few weeks can be placed under temporary admission ….. no customs formalities are needed on entry or exit ….. VAT does not need to be paid.”
So the fault certainly does not rest on the shoulders of our politicians, nor the EU goverments. Instead the customs officials in certain EU countries seem not to be aware of the regulations. These things have a way of sorting themselves out, but it will take time. Patience, as my mother would say, is a virtue.
That’s all very well, but it
That’s all very well, but it is the responsibility of the politicians of the country that chose to make life more difficult for its citizens to work tirelessly to ensure that any agreements are properly respected by other countries. That requires skilled diplomacy and a willingness to show that we too will respect international agreements. It’s far from obvious that this is the intention of the current government. Things really won’t just sort themselves out without cooperation between governments.
That’s all very well, but it
[quote=Capercaillie]That’s all very well, but it is the responsibility of the politicians of the country that chose to make life more difficult for its citizens …..
And there was I, labouring under the idea that it was the citizens of this country that chose to leave the EU. Silly me.
mike the bike wrote:
I think this is clear that your means of transport when crossig the borders is exempt, not that anything that could ever be considered a means of transport is exempt.
15 chaps turn up with 15 bikes – “Yes this is my bike and I am taking it home again after my holiday” – no problem
One van with 15 bikes in the back – very different story, or we would see no customs payable on new cars coming in on the back of car transporters, also no charges for speedboats, scooters, helicopters, rollerskates etc.
Obviously, before, we were in the customs union and so these charges did not apply, now they do and while business can be reasonably expected to know this, private individuals may not.
I suspect if I took two bikes to france in my car and travelled alone, I would probably be OK.
wycombewheeler wrote:
Indeed sir. For the sake of brevity I omitted the section that describes permitted activities for the ‘means of transport’. Holidays, leisure, trade shows, and sporting events should all be acceptable to local customs officers. Supplying businesses with their stock-in-trade or selling the goods is obviously outside the scope of the legislation.
For trade shows, sporting
For trade shows, sporting events, gigs etc, you have to have a carnet for your equipment. Everyone who is involved in these events knows this. Unfortunately they didn’t know. No carnet, no entry unless you pay duty.
They are all professionals
They are all professionals undertaking their trade.
Having spent the last 20 odd
Having spent the last 20 odd years in Spain i know that all departments of the Spanish Govt try to maximise income from the unwary.
While I’ve every sympathy for
While I’ve every sympathy for the club cyclists, it does come down to a case of not being aware of the rules, so it’s not really a surprise.
Let’s look at it from the point of view of the Spanish customs official involved. They’re being met with a lad driving a van full of high value bikes. Customs take a very different view of goods that are accompanied versus those that aren’t. Here in Ireland it’s next to impossible for an individual to buy wine in Europe and have it shipped over here, yet I can drive over to France, and fill up the back of a van legally – though you still have to satisfy customs that it’s for personal consumption if stopped. If as others have said, everybody had accompanied their own bikes on the ferry or flown with them, there’d probably have been no problem as I’m sure plenty of Brits have had a relatively straightforward experience doing this this year.
This is entirely the fault of BoJo The Clown and his fellow travellers. He could have pointed out in 2016 that this would be the case in the event of a hard Brexit, but oh-no, it was all a vaporous £350m/w into the NHS and keeping out undesirables (oh wait – what do you mean that they were the ones that pick the fruit that we now can’t export anyway?). They drove the UK into the hardest of all Brexits, and are now trying to tear up the legally binding international treaty that they themselves negotiated, which threatening to make mincemeat of the other international treaty that has ensured a generation n NI haven’t had to suffer 23 years of bloodshed.
It’s also hurting British businesses. I can’t buy at all from Spa any more at all, and I can’t practically buy from SJS or Ribble, and I need to spend €150 to buy from Merlin. These would have been among my go-to online suppliers, but now it’s all going to French/German sites.
So despite the shrieking of the Daily Heil and it’s brethern, this is all down to the Lunativs (who) Have Taken Over The Asylum
As a Spanish taxpayer, I
As a Spanish taxpayer, I would like to say a big thank you very much to the club for its contribution to our exchequer. The British voted for Brexit and their government chose the hard-nut extreme version. I recommend that everybody reads the rules before visiting Europe.
The definition of “Means of
The definition of “Means of Transport” applies only to vehicles including bikes that are being driven or ridden at the border not transported by van trailer or even a bike rack… An ATA Carnet and security deposit of 40% of the value or an appropriate insurance is required for when temporary importing… This is the same problems touring bands are facing… Penny Mordaunt is a liar…even transportation of a car on a trailer or an electric bike in a motorhome are all at risk… And border control is catching up.. I am sorry but ‘Welcome to the Brexit Sir’