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Live blog: Belgium’s word of the year? “Murderstrip” – a painted bike lane, pump track cycle lane, Geraint Thomas the Grogg + more
After the BBC’s blunder of editing out G’s Welsh flag as he celebrates his TDF victory, national pride is restored after we spotted that he’s proving so popular as a Grogg you’ll have to wait five months for one!
Tue, Dec 18, 2018 17:01
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Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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Rendel Harris 49 minutes ago
@mitsky Just checking the figures and apparently the 2026 average cost is £58,000 per year per prisoner; worth noting that is only the direct cost, you then have to factor in ten years of lost tax income from the prisoner, ten years that the prisoner is making no contribution to society as a worker or as a consumer, plus the fact that if they were the primary breadwinner very likely the costs will include benefits for their family as well. None of which should be a reason for keeping violent recidivists out of prison of course, nor drug/drink drivers who kill, but it is a factor worth considering for lower-level offences.
Rendel Harris 58 minutes ago
@Surreyrider I ride in Surrey a fair bit and absolutely many do look like that but the point is they all *think* they're driving perfectly reasonably (as one discovers when remonstrating with someone who's skimmed one by 30cm, "I gave you masses of room") so deterrent penalties have little effect. That's why we need to strike at the root cause and actually train drivers properly and test them stringently (and more than once over the course of a potential 70+ years of driving, it's absolutely absurd that competence and knowledge in what for most people is the activity in their life that will run the biggest risk of killing people you never have to have your qualifications renewed).
Rendel Harris 1 hour ago
@mitsky Imprisonment currently costs over £50k p.a. per prisoner and obviously that will rise over the course of a ten-year stretch with inflation. Regarding culpability and mitigating sentences etc, of course I'm not against condign punishment for drivers who kill (and cyclists on the tiny, tiny handful of occasions when this happens), including prison as appropriate; I was objecting to the ridiculous and oft-repeated demand of MM that drivers who kill cyclists must get ten years, "no excuses, no exceptions".
Blackthorne83 5 hours ago
Hey, but their wool blend cycling adjacent t-shirts are/were fantastic.
RoadYeti 5 hours ago
@Surreyrider Still the boss. Ride one, you'll see why
chrisonabike 9 hours ago
@Smoggysteve "Most would happily ride on the roads and be treated with respect by drivers". But people aren't - and as far as I can see they won't be. Not until there is a lot less driving and it's slower around cyclists, and far more people driving have "skin in the game" eg. they sometimes cycle and their friends and family do also. That's what leads to the model - which is perhaps most advanced in NL - where cycling, walking and driving are all seen as separate normal transport modes. Their needs, vulnerabilities and any dangers to others are considered. And *that* leads to "mix / share when possible, separate when necessary". But "possible" is "where your 10-year old would be safe to cycle unsupervised" - so very few motor vehicles, going slow! And AFAICS everybody - even "existing cyclists" - is happy with the result. (I dunno about a few pro cyclists - but don't they tend to have training camps in different counties anyway?)
chrisonabike 9 hours ago
@quiff as an Edinburgh resident I can confidently say he's speaking without moving his lips in one sense: - while as I noted in a separate comment there *is* now some real separated cycle infra, all the examples i can think of have *at least as much space* for pedestrians. The rest of the "cycle infra" is essentially similar to the situation in the rest of the UK: eg. bus lanes*, cycle lanes and shared use paths (eg. "build" infra by sticking up a sign). Edinburgh is one of the places with a moderately extensive network of former railways which have been converted to "shared use" paths (completely motor traffic few). However though shared they are not narrow by UK standards. And this is all effectively a "free extra" for all non- motorised users, not like the "sign a cycle path" where pedestrians do lose space. I think this all comes from the "popular understanding" of cycling in which ultimately cyclists are the "other". They don't fit "motor vehicle" or "pedestrian" (including wheelchairs on the very rare occasions people think about that). Thus "cyclists are cheating" in multiple ways! They shouldn't get their own space as "there aren't enough" of them. And "they can just use the road / path". But being able to *choose* "on the road" or "on the footway" (shared use path) is clearly unfair - nobody else gets to do that! BUT of course even if they did pick just one of road OR pedestrian space it's still not fair anyway because they're "too slow" for the road (don't pay "road tax" etc...) and "far too fast" for pedestrians... * Though some existing cyclists may appreciate them when there are few buses, buses and bikes are a very poor mix for several reasons.
mikecassie 9 hours ago
Whilst a shame for any employees, their bib shorts had the worst chamois pad I’d ever encountered, utter waste of my money. Even though they were Strava challenge discount purchases, still a waste of money.
ktache 10 hours ago
Thanks, just going to have to suck it up. Got next week off and will take the easy, if expensive option...
Rendel Harris 11 hours ago
@ktache Just go for the TNT Sports only package, £30.99 for a month. Alternatively have you considered experimenting with a VPN for a few pounds, allowing you to sign up for a free stream abroad, e.g. SBS Australia which streams the Tour live? If I didn't have a kind mate's login that's what I'd do!
22 thoughts on “Live blog: Belgium’s word of the year? “Murderstrip” – a painted bike lane, pump track cycle lane, Geraint Thomas the Grogg + more”
So other police forces
So other police forces responded and said they would take action, but is there anything from the Met?
The BBC was best described as “where the truth comes to die.” Removing the flag is crass.
burtthebike wrote:
I’m hoping that the Met aren’t commenting because they’re dealing with the driver.
The BBC is truly a disgrace – it’s supposed to be “British”, not English.
burtthebike wrote:
— burtthebikeDisagree. Removing the SKY logo was crass.
Removing Geraint’s flag is deeply offensive.
Good of the WMP to emphasise
Good of the WMP to emphasise ‘if it were on our patch’ – puts the onus on the Met to treat JV and other London commuters fairly.
Re G and the flag – a bit antagonistic, given some people’s sensitivity, but you coulld argue that it looks better aesthetically for their purposes – it looks a bit ‘busy’ with the dragon directly behind his head. The removal of the Sky logo on the other hand just smacks of petty rivalry!
Why is is always so
Why is is always so predictable:
Cyclist: I was almost killed
Some idiot: Ye, well what about cyclists that run red lights?
Cyclist: Drivers run red lights too/speed/put more road users at risk
Idiot: Were not talking about that. We are talking about cyclists!
I got in to one of these arguments at work the other day. Apparently it is totally acceptable to stand in the middle of the office bitching loudly about cyclists running a red light at the end of the road, but I’m being rude when I butt in to point out that its because drivers also ignore the light, stop in the ASL and cut the corner (It’s left only for cars and a crossroads for cyclists. I have seen cyclists hit there) and cycists feel unsafe stopping there. Still bitter about that.
John Smith wrote:
Don’t waste your time being bitter. Gammon’s gonna Gammon.
John Smith wrote:
Like pretty much every local paper story that mentions a cyclist, and is used as an excuse to talk not about the story in question but “about this one time, there was this one cyclist, and he did something I don’t agree with, and another time I saw this other cyclist who…, and another time…”.
John Smith wrote:
Get a new job. It sounds like you work with a bunch of morons.
That’s pretty embarrasing by
That’s pretty embarrasing by the BBC.
BBC removed the Sky logo
BBC removed the Sky logo because one of their core sports didntd win POTY. It’s infuriating for them that these bally cyclists keep winning when our other national teams have won nothing this year.
They don’t give road cycling any coverage in their sports reports, apart from the mearest mention when G,Yates or Froome win a stage. This despite the UK public loving road cycling, witness the crowds by the roadside during major events, and ITV4s viewing figures for the TDF and Vuelta.
But give them a cycling scandal and it’s all hands to the pumps
maviczap wrote:
Brushing out the SKY logo is the least of the BBC’s problems in that photo, byt.
maviczap wrote:
I was trying not to mention the BBC’s 30 year helmet campaign that breaks every rule in their own Editorial Guidelines, but you made me do it! And they have endless programmes about obesity and always, but always, blame it solely on diet, and never, but never, ever mention the single most effective way of treating it; cycling.
Ergo, they hate cyclists.
From what I can see the Flag
From what I can see the Flag was removed from the picture that was used in promotions prior to the votes for SPOTY, just as the union flag was removed from the picture used for Lizzie Yarnold, it’s not about Celt bashing but a clumsy attempt at reducing the “vote for the one from my part of the country”
As a Scot I’m not suddenly getting upset that no Scots were in the short list this year, though I do get annoyed by the amout of Football drivel on the show (mostly because I love nearly all sport but really really dislike football and this country’s obsession with it)
EK Spinner wrote:
Missed this earlier. So why not use a different picture of Thomas? There are surely lots to choose from.
Merely the possibility that the editing was politically motivated is disconcerting. Or perhaps some of us are interpreting it has having a particular meaning when there is none.
Football drivel is a staple of British sports media. It sells newspapers and website clicks and it’s not hard to find a pundit as any dimwit can spout about footie.
Are there Scottish athletes / sportspeople / hoofball celebrities that should be on the list? I don’t follow sports other than those with 2 or 3 wheels so wouldn’t have a clue. TBH the programme is a backslapping exercise and of no relevance to anything else. Its only merit is in showcasing people from less popular sports. Cycling surely isn’t one of those now but I can’t imagine what that must have been like when Tom Simpson won spoty.
I don’t get it? Morrissey isn
I don’t get it? Morrissey isn’t Welsh.
See 59 wrote:
Now you’ve pointed that out…I actually laughed out loud when I went back to look what you meant!
Perhaps the JV footage should have a Smiths soundtrack “…and if a double decker bus, crashes into us…”)
Either way, at least he’s a Sports Personality who actually HAS a personality for once!
The tarmac hasn’t risen up
The tarmac hasn’t risen up between the concrete blocks, it has been laid on top of the original flat tarmac so that pedestrians can easily get up to the road. It would have been extremely difficult with a wheelchair/buggie or any kind of disablement to get onto the road. Looks hideous, is probably dangerous for cyclists and demonstrates the complete lack of forethought by the planners.
You don’t say where it is, but it’s kind of comforting to realise that it isn’t just UK planners who can screw up so utterly royally. Kind of.
No experienced planner would have done this, but it seems that the raw planners, straight out of college, are given the pedestrian/cycling schemes, so we keep getting results like this. Experience is what you get when you make a mistake, but after they’ve got some experience they are promoted, and the next school-leaver gets to practice on the cyclists/pedestrians, and the cycle continues. When I used to go to meetings with the local planners, I often wondered why poor little amateur me seemed to know more about planning for cyclists than the professionals and eventually worked out that I had read the books and the planning documents, they’d just spent a couple of years at college talking statistics and getting pissed.
Reminds me a little of the
Reminds me a little of the cycle lane on Sealand Road heading towards Chester, running across all of the dropped kerbs for the drives to each house.
Tommytrucker wrote:
My thought exactly.
Murderstrip, I get that.
Murderstrip, I get that.
I just love the bluntness of
I just love the bluntness of the Belgians….
Chris Hayes wrote:
I was in a relatively small Belgian town (Dendermonde) on a business trip last week. The place was absolutely teeming with cyclists who have priority most places and the “protection” of presumed liability laws. Driving round with a local four things were noticeable:
It’s an odd mix and I can see why they’re called murder strips. It felt like around town the average driving speed was over 30mph, or certainly higher than it is in a UK town. The strips are narrow, and most cyclists are getting it done too, even on hybrids and dutch bikes. So plenty of overtaking in narrow cycle lanes alongside fast traffic, and most kids cycle to school.
Looking at the stats fatalities are between 73 & 90 deaths per year since 2011. Couldn’t find anything on fatalities per km travelled but clearly Les Belges cycle more for utility than we do.