Melbourne mayor looks to discourage cyclists from some streets

Shhh. It's actually brilliant, but we want to keep it quiet...

Melbourne is undoubtably the worst urban centre that I have ever cycled in. It makes London feel like Amsterdam.

I don't know Bristol, but London and Oxford have the advantage of being flat. The weather is also better than that seen further North, and it doesn't get dark as soon.

It's grim up here.

Probably a reflection of diet much more than exercise. 'Abs are made in the kitchen' apparently, according to my gym rat son.
I do my best to be properly hydrated, but again, 'beer isn't a recovery drink'.

You need to get one of those new fangled bicycles, the kind that can stop and then turn around when the route you have chosen to be on turns out to be less than suitable...

Yes, I'm playing to the gallery, yes I'm being argumentative, but it seems to be needed to expose the self righteousness that riding a bicycle encourages.

We are a tiny crowded country that has fallen hook, line and sinker for the 'great car owning democracy' line sold to us many years ago. The car has been king for a long time and changing that will take money, time and a sea change in attitude from the vast majority of the UK public.

Stamping our SPD shod feet will not help, being realistic and pragmatic about where we are and where we would like to be will.

crikey does have a point about practicality though I think, saying "You can't have a road system where you say it's OK to use, except where it isn't. That's not OK. Not now, not ever!" is certainly on the wishful thinking side IMO, and I can't see why it would want to be a target to try for.

All of which brings us neatly, albeit somewhat hysterically back to my original suggestion...

So because of your geographical ineptitude, every road in the entire UK should be made safe to cycle on?
Is it me, or is this;
a) naïve,
b) unrealistic, and
c) a wonderful example of the sense of entitlement that I was bemoaning a while ago?

Some roads are not suitable for bicycles.
A couple of examples that I have ridden on;
1. The A64 from Leeds to York.
Great fun to be dragged along in the wind at 30 mph by traffic doing 60 mph about 4 feet from my shoulder, but not for the faint hearted.
2. The A628 Woodhead pass.
Lovely, scenic, but given that it is a link between the M1 and the M6, M60 and joins Manchester to Sheffield, riding up it with streams of HGVs is not my idea of fun.

This is the situation now, today. We could try to change it, but in a political and economic climate of austerity I suspect that the money is better spent on, as above, mass transit systems which allow those distances to be covered quicker by more people...

I agree and empathise with all of that, and I appreciate we have moved away from the original topic somewhat. My concern is that cycling has become fashionable, the traffic cause du jour, and there is a danger that we invest in it for the benefit of relatively few people.

Cycling is a good thing, good for the environment, good for the health, good for many reasons.

Its not a panacea, it's not going to answer the questions raised by the need to get a million people in to and out of Manchester every day.

If you build it they will come only works in films.

Crikey, I understand some of the points you raise, and obviously cycling on a motorway wouldn’t make sense, on dual carriageways can be frightening.

As has been pointed out though, it is the actions of those in the powerful ton of metal that needs most redressing rather than someone who is probably reliant upon this mode of transport pressing a ‘ban’ button.

As for your empathy of those commuting into cities, on the school run etc. again I feel you massively miss the point (or live in a nice bubble). I am somewhat fortunate as I walk my 2 youngest to school (about a mile) and then ride to work (a further couple of miles). Rarely do I have an issue with other pedestrians, dogs, puddles etc. but every single day someone in a car endangers life. We cross a zebra crossing, our personal record is 8 cars passing over this whilst waiting to cross, usually in excess of the 30mph limit. Near to the school there is a 4 way traffic light system, quite a wide junction, every single day the “do not enter until your exit is clear” is totally ignored often resulting in card beeping and revving at those crossing the road as the green man is lit up (for a whole 10 seconds). Further to that is the amount of cars around the school; illegally parked, parking on the school’s yellow do not park lines, causing gridlock, opening doors into traffic, making stupid turning manoeuvres. To be fair, most of the time they aren’t endangering their child as they are in the car, it’s much more likely to be mine that they injure or kill.

People are ridiculous, apparently it is really hard to get into a school, er no, you pretty much automatically get a place in a school <2 miles from your house – walk! The desire to drive to work is understandable as public transport is shit, but rather than the government fix this issue they invest in more roads and let the private companies rip off and endanger their customers. As the commuter climbs into their metal box they take on the position of self righteous bully and try and intimidate those who have chosen not to become a slave to their car!

Imbeciles, one and all!

http://road.cc/content/news/167566-150000-slough-cycle-hub-yet-be-used-t...

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Small number? A good guess at the latent demand for cycling if there was decent infrastructure is the difference between UK and Dutch levels of cycling. Not a small number.

You're meant to be ignoring me, aren't you?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja...

You can have a look here at the numbers; I've not read it all and I'm off to the pub.

I've been a cyclist for 30 years, all through those times when there were no cycle lanes, no Hi Vis, not even clipless pedals or Gore Tex and we used jumpers for goalposts, hmmm, wasn't it?

I've commuted for a long time by bike, I've completed 100s of surveys about infrastructure and been talked at by many a fresh faced youth keen to impress on me the wonders of cycling...

The mistake that most cyclists make is to frame the debate about themselves; they forget those for whom cycling would be difficult, they forget the elderly, they forget people who wouldn't be able to work if cycles were the only transport.

I work in a department with 80 others. Even if money was no object and the best, most direct, safe routes were created, I think about 20 of them would cycle to work, only in the summer.

I'm 50 odd and riding home after 12-13 hours on my feet, in the dark, in the rain, in the wind, in the cold, up the hill is rubbish......even with £2Ks worth of bike and £300 of fancy kit to keep me warm and dry.

Quick, reliable, cheap, safe mass transit systems are the answer, cycling is part of the solution, but it's not as important.

For this to really be about helping cyclists, they would have to complete the circle by also finding ways for discouraging motorised through-traffic on the roads recommended to cyclists. When I started commuting by bike I studiously looked at local bike routes that were recommended because they avoided busy and fast roads. Which was great…until I started to encounter drivers using these alternative routes as rat-runs. And those rat-running drivers – keen no doubt to make sure that taking the smaller and more circuitous roads is ‘worth it’ in terms of reducing their journey time by a few seconds – drive faster and take more risks. Super.

But how do you discourage through traffic? Any method I have ever heard of is accused of being part of a 'war on the motorist'.

@pamplemousse,Try not to be obtuse, eh?

Instead of constantly looking at Amsterdam or Copenhagen and shouting ever louder for ever more funds just for cycling, try thinking about the whole picture. Try thinking about mass transit, try thinking about people who travel into and out of towns and cities over long distances. Try thinking about less flat areas of the UK, try thinking about wetter, windier places. Try thinking about people who have children to get to school before a 15 mile commute.

The re-population of city centres is a recent phenomenon, as is the popularity of cycling. There are other important things to spend money on which will benefit more people than cycling facilities.

I wholeheartedly approve and support efforts to get more people on bikes, but in a realistic way.

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Well there's not much point listening to anything else you say then.

You've posted to tell me you're going to ignore me? Bless..

@Quince; I'm against segregation because it requires a vast investment of pubic money which ...at present... will only be of benefit to a small number and it reinforces the idea that the only way to be safe on a bike is to be away from traffic. Look at the Copenhagen video; cyclists as traffic.

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Why can't cyclists - like any other road user - take a map or a satnav and plan a route from A to B on roads they don't know first hand, and expect it to be safe for their purpose?

Because the real world, and specifically the real world away from London, Bristol, Oxford etc., isn't like that.

There are some places where bikes don't work; that's not a political stance, it's fact of life in the UK.

Is there not some kind of test that can be applied before these people are allowed into public office?

Perhaps Melbourne would be a more harmonious place if this idiot wasn't allowed to speak publicly? I don't want to use the word ban, but perhaps he'd look somewhat less stupid if he didn't make his thoughts public.

While I agree with all the above points on bikes having the right to roads having commuted in Melbourne I can tell you there are certain roads that you have to be INSANE to even think about riding on. That ratio is WAY HIGHER than in London. The city is complete death trap. Partly it's the roads (big, wide suburban grids that people speed along 50mph on 30 roads is not uncommon) and partly it's attitude - you think people hate cyclists here? Not even close. The attitude you can see demonstrated above - hate disguised as mere ignorance.

So, I kinda think he's a little bit right at a practical level, but also he's a lot wrong at a conceptual and humane level.

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Perhaps we don't radically disagree, but personally I want to see cars to be not allowed in nearly as many places as they currently are (there aren't very many 'pedestrianised areas', that's kind of the problem).

I would agree wholeheartedly with that. I'm just a bit weary and wary of the current demands being made on behalf of cycling. I feel there is a danger that we become seen as the enemy rather than a coherent part of the solution to everyone's transport needs.

Cycling works for some people, for some of the time in some places. The demands of a vocal and largely well-off minority need to be tempered somewhat.

@fukawitribe

Fair point - Australia's just an abstraction to me, really, just a pretext for arguing the general point. But still, if a route is officially designated 'not desirable' one wonders how long before that becomes a factor in legal cases in the event of an accident?