London cyclist critically injured in HGV crash

SteppenHerring wrote:

"Transforming the cycling environment". Interesting.

If you look where bike lanes and ASLs are, they are directly in the HGV blind spots/danger zone. Safest practise is to take a very strong primary to avoid being left-hooked - but then you'll be shouted at the "get in the fucking bike lane" (and you may be rear-ended).

Should we really be spending money on more bike lanes that encourage riders into hazardous positions?

Well, no - we should be spending it on good separated, bike lanes. And (my personal favourite option) on blocking many side-roads to motorised through-traffic.

washere wrote:

Ubiquitous cowboy lorry drivers/small companies apart, I can not fathom how Tesco gave such a reckless person a lorry to drive for tight schedules in London. Unfortunately if Tesco are hiring so recklessly, their lorries will cause more accidents.

Do you know for sure that Tescos are not hiring agency drivers? If so, they just do the thing of calling the agency, telling them not to send that driver again and absolve themselves of any blame.

See it time and time again with bus companies, and freight firms are either using agency drivers, or offload culpability with making their drivers self employed entities.

zanf wrote:

washere wrote:

Ubiquitous cowboy lorry drivers/small companies apart, I can not fathom how Tesco gave such a reckless person a lorry to drive for tight schedules in London. Unfortunately if Tesco are hiring so recklessly, their lorries will cause more accidents.

Do you know for sure that Tescos are not hiring agency drivers? If so, they just do the thing of calling the agency, telling them not to send that driver again and absolve themselves of any blame.

See it time and time again with bus companies, and freight firms are either using agency drivers, or offload culpability with making their drivers self employed entities.

It's more than likely that Tesco uses a logistics company who then have a dedicated fleet of boxes and horses with the Tesco livery rather than the logistics livery. That company then determines how the deliveries are made. Tesco aren't to bothered as long as the correct stock arrives at the correct store. it takes away the cost of maintaining and insuring a fleet of heavy vehicles. I've noticed over the years that certain logistics drive better than others but that is mainly to protect the brand that they are operating for, rather than risk that contract.

And as Zanf says. The freight/logistics company then make further cuts/savings by contracting out to other drivers some who may have their own unmarked rig.

Hi Mungecrundle,

After leaving the shower and getting dressed I got some large bandage rolls and went there which took about five minutes. The first ambulance and police car were already there so just went back. The paramedics had started work. When I got there and saw her leg and knee were cut off, I knew the only way to help her if the medics were not there yet was to take off my belt and tie the lower part of the leg as tight as possible to slow massive blood loss. But fortunately they were already there. I have heard if an arm is severed it can be more dangerous as its near the heart and can drain the blood faster. It's generally advised not to move victims as it could exacerbate spinal injuries, which is why they often place a board under before lifting. The mouth and throat should be clear and not blocked by blood etc. It's good if people do not shout as the victim's system is already in great shock and needs mental strength and calm. Also not too many people around the body so there is plenty of air flow. I'd say slightly fanning helps. Fortunately they gave her oxygen and stopped the blood flow. But basically I'm a great ignorant on medical matters and looking to be educated by those in the know.

So your suggestion is a very good idea. Maybe there can be a first aid section and a detailed checklist poster made on cycling sites?

That is the actual incident photo but some time after the incident at 3:30p.m. She was taken away in about 45 minutes as needed great care and stabilising first. The police closed the area and took many measurements and photos with special tripods as it was rightly deemed a crime scene. Both sides of the road, major way into east London, was only cleaned and opened well into the night, after about 5 hours. He was turning left to deliver to the small Tesco only 200 yards away in that little street, Central St. Maybe he was driving fast because he was late.

washere wrote:

...The police closed the area … as it was rightly deemed a crime scene...

A motor vehicle ran over a bike rider and the police classified it as a crime scene? Has something changed in police practice, or is this a London thing?

In my experience, the police usually call it an accident if there are not stolen vehicles or drunk drivers involved.

The facts as reported are he was arrested on the spot and jailed overnight and only released on bail this morning till December while a special unit investigates.

severs1966 wrote:

A motor vehicle ran over a bike rider and the police classified it as a crime scene? Has something changed in police practice, or is this a London thing? In my experience, the police usually call it an accident if there are not stolen vehicles or drunk drivers involved.

It's not just a London thing, and your experience is quite a few years out of date now. (Or, perhaps, your local force is.) Standard police practice is to use "collision" or "incident", not "accident".

If "a motor vehicle ran over a bike rider" then maybe it wouldn't be a potential crime, as there apparently wouldn't have been a driver involved. But a driver drove a motor vehicle over a bike rider, and hence it is potentially a crime.

washere wrote:

Basically when I see any kind of junction or left turning coming up, I make sure I'm BEHIND the lorries. Not only due to their potential blindspot, but many are simply reckless. Another reason is they turn late as the vehicle is large. If there is no left turning, at the worst I can dive onto the pavement. But left turning or junction coming up: I stay behind the lorry.

Sound advice. But in many of these instances the cyclist is already at the junction and the lorry pulls up behind. There's not much you can do. Which is why we should stop complaining about things that the victims could have done differently, and focus on the people doing the killing.

Yes true, in this case the lorry driver was actually reckless and imo turned without looking properly because he'd turned slightly right first to turn left in the tight corner and could have seen her if he was slightly mindful or not so fast. As I said, I would not give that person a lorry to drive. He was definitely at fault.

Another true point is even if you stay behind the lorry when a left turning or junction is coming up, another lorry could come up from behind. Which is why it's good to check over the shoulder before major left turnings and junctions. Frankly in London I glance briefly over my right shoulder regularly, at least once a minute. Doesn't have to be a full head turn, just a slight nod to the right and it increases the field of vision on the right greatly.

If there are junctions, major turnings, unusual noise or light, etc or some major activity I glance every thirty seconds or so. Till the situation calms. If not I get a proper look and more regularly till it does. Basically in the city you could do everything right and still get run over by those who are reckless, on drugs, alcohol, having rows or bad moods, psychos, etc. That lorry driver yesterday was not just reckless and at fault, imo he did not particularly care about people. At least that was my impression.

However staying well behind lorries before a left turning or junction is a rule I never break. The rubbish lorries are amongst the worst in London and the smaller shabby private contracted ones with tall side netting are even worse than the bigger council lorries, watch out for them.

danthomascyclist wrote:

washere wrote:

Basically when I see any kind of junction or left turning coming up, I make sure I'm BEHIND the lorries. Not only due to their potential blindspot, but many are simply reckless. Another reason is they turn late as the vehicle is large. If there is no left turning, at the worst I can dive onto the pavement. But left turning or junction coming up: I stay behind the lorry.

Sound advice. But in many of these instances the cyclist is already at the junction and the lorry pulls up behind. There's not much you can do. Which is why we should stop complaining about things that the victims could have done differently, and focus on the people doing the killing.

Well yes we should try to stop this happening but it's not either or. As cyclists we also have agency in how we ride. Washere is right. You make a good point too about the lorry pulling up beside you and altering the situation but that would have my alarm bells going full on. Get off and on to the pavement get over the barrier if there is one leave the bike if necessary or ride through and around that corner but get the hell out of there any way you can.

oozaveared wrote:

danthomascyclist wrote:

washere wrote:

Basically when I see any kind of junction or left turning coming up, I make sure I'm BEHIND the lorries. Not only due to their potential blindspot, but many are simply reckless. Another reason is they turn late as the vehicle is large. If there is no left turning, at the worst I can dive onto the pavement. But left turning or junction coming up: I stay behind the lorry.

Sound advice. But in many of these instances the cyclist is already at the junction and the lorry pulls up behind. There's not much you can do. Which is why we should stop complaining about things that the victims could have done differently, and focus on the people doing the killing.

Well yes we should try to stop this happening but it's not either or. As cyclists we also have agency in how we ride. Washere is right. You make a good point too about the lorry pulling up beside you and altering the situation but that would have my alarm bells going full on. Get off and on to the pavement get over the barrier if there is one leave the bike if necessary or ride through and around that corner but get the hell out of there any way you can.

No doubt you are correct that running away from this is the best action at the time. That should not obscure the points that:
1. driver training (and preferably enforcement) needs improved to prevent this
2. the persistent suggestion that everyone crushed by a lorry brought it on themselves by bad riding is an offensive, insulting attempt to deflect blame from the place it often (usually?) belongs.

andreacasalotti wrote:

In July 2014, Islington allocated £1m received from TfL to make cycling safe on Old St.
By October 2014 Islington had drawings ready for segregated tracks.
In December 2014, Victoria Lebrec lost her leg after being crushed by a lorry on this stretch of road.
Islington has been sitting on the plans.
The London Cycling Campaign has been colluding with the Council in this criminal behaviour.
Is it any wonder that people are killed or critically injured?

http://www.visionzerolondon.org/2015/07/how-islington-council-spent-half...

How has the London Cycling Campaign been "colluding with the Council" in criminal behaviour?

I had been campaigning on behalf of LCC to make Old Street safe.
Islington Council refused to talk to me because I was asking for Dutch standards.
I asked LCC HQ to get TfL involved.
LCC refused to help and sided with Islington Council in blacklisting me.
Maybe because I am European, and the Brits just refuse to learn from those who know better.

andreacasalotti wrote:

I had been campaigning on behalf of LCC to make Old Street safe.
Islington Council refused to talk to me because I was asking for Dutch standards.
I asked LCC HQ to get TfL involved.
LCC refused to help and sided with Islington Council in blacklisting me.
Maybe because I am European, and the Brits just refuse to learn from those who know better.

The LCC has spent 35 collecting subscriptions from people and campaigning for cycling but has very little to show for it. They support crap ideas and claim to be all "Going Dutch" but have no idea what that really means.