There are too many cycling events using Box Hill and too many reports of anti-social behaviour by riders. That was the message from residents of the area to local police and council representatives at a public meeting last week.
The meeting last Monday was organised by Box Hill Neighbourhood Council after the publication of a list of 19 weekend events scheduled to take place on the hill between April and November, reports the Leatherhead Advertiser's Jennifer Hardwick.
When asked if they saw the number of events being held on the hill to be "excessive", the meeting unanimously voted "yes".
Some residents claimed cyclists had urinated in their gardens, and they had been abused when they had asked riders to get out of the way.
Mole Valley's neighbourhood police commander, Inspector Richard Hamlin, told the meeting: "When I started here a lot of people said to me that I would have problems with cycling and I was quite sceptical and thought 'How bad can it be'?
"But within a few weeks I realised it is a serious problem.
"There are certain things that we can tackle: the verbal abuse, the threats of physical violence and the urinating in public. These are public order offences.
"I am quite pro-cycling in general but, of course, the antisocial behaviour is not acceptable."
Part of the road is owned by the National Trust. The NT's countryside manager for Box Hill, Andrew Wright said anyone organising a running or cycling event had to apply tim for a licence. The money raised goes back into maintaining the road.
He said the licensing system restricts the number of events, he doesn't allow two cycling events to run at the same time and almost all events are required to come through before midday.
He said: "The idea of that is that most people at the weekends are not up and out before 10 to 10.30am so that time limit reduces the conflict with cars."
The licensing arrangements also limits the number of riders in each event to a maximum of 2,500.
County councillor Hazel Watson (Dorking Hills, Lib Dem) said: "Surrey County Council has made representations to a House of Commons select committee to increase the regulation of cycling events.
"While certain events like the Prudential RideLondon-Surrey 100 are regulated, not all of them are ever reported to the council or to police so we simply don't know about them."
The meeting ended with an agreement to open more dialogue between the National Trust, Surrey Police and residents.
55 thoughts on “Residents complain of “excessive” cycling events on Surrey’s iconic Box Hill”
As a cyclist I’d like to
As a cyclist I’d like to complain about the excessive amounts of cars on the road.
pants wrote:As a cyclist I’d
Every day large numbers of slow moving and stationary vehicles cause me delay on my commute.
I think we need a system of regulation to control numbers.
I’m also curious about these requests to get out of tge way are. Is this the standard get off our roads attitude, or cyclists stopping blocking someones access.
NIMBY pains in the arse. Tis
NIMBY pains in the arse. Tis the same down here in the New Forest ~X(
Ok, the anti-social behaviour
Ok, the anti-social behaviour needs tackling, but nothing else, unless we start restricting supermarket, Golf clubs and garden centres so only one can be open at a time and the number of people in cars is restricted as well.
I await the Police tacking
I await the Police tacking the anti social, well dangerous, driving that I witness day in day out that puts lives in danger.
I suspect I will wait a long time as they are too busy pandering to the NIMBYS.
I’d be interested to know
I’d be interested to know just how many event there are?
Nick T wrote:I’d be
19. It says in the article.
Even if events are banned from going up/down Box Hill, it’ll still be mega busy on the weekends. Every time I’ve gone over there off my own back as part of a ride, it’s always busy.
Iamnot Wiggins wrote:Nick T
I missed that. Does seem a lot to be fair, that’s more than a third of the year. Discount the winter months and you’ve probably got one every fortnight.
Nick T wrote:Iamnot Wiggins
I missed that. Does seem a lot to be fair, that’s more than a third of the year. Discount the winter months and you’ve probably got one every fortnight.— Nick T
Nothing compared to the regular disruption of living near a league football stadium or anywhere near the Wembly complex or even Bicester Village.
On the whole people know
On the whole people know they’re moving close to a premier league stadium, or Bicester shopping village, or town centre pubs. Of course many underestimate how annoying they’ll find the totally inevitable disruption and complain endlessly, but if you moved to Surrey in 2005 its fair enough not to have anticipated the explosion cycling.
atgni wrote:
I missed that. Does seem a lot to be fair, that’s more than a third of the year. Discount the winter months and you’ve probably got one every fortnight.— Iamnot Wiggins
Nothing compared to the regular disruption of living near a league football stadium or anywhere near the Wembly complex or even Bicester Village.— Nick T
Premier league teams have 19 home matches, just the same although 40,000 is far greater than the average sportive.
1 – Are they planning to
1 – Are they planning to tackle anti-social driving as robustly? There sure is a lot of it.
2 – Nobody complained about too many cars?
Local tourism businesses need to be more involved in local affairs to balance out the short-sighted NIMBYs.
Why do we need to discuss
Why do we need to discuss tackling of anti-social behaviour? Whether you are on a bike, driving a car or staggering back from the pub, if you p!ss in somebodies front garden their should be consequences.
No excuse for being
No excuse for being anti-social but sounds as though the number of events isn’t the problem they’re making it out to be.
As a member of Surrey
As a member of Surrey Countryside Access Forum (LAF’s are a statutory consultation and advice groups used by the council set up under CRoW act 2000) we have been discussing issues over cycling in our recent meetings, and are currently working with other branches of the council towards a properly organised strategy (joined up thinking? we can but hope!) and identifying the ‘facts’ about the problems, and distinguishing them from the ‘noise’ of anti cycling rhetoric.
At a recent meeting, I took other members (representing various user groups) over the facts about regulation of events, to some extent its a bit of a red herring, we are talking here about 19 events, thats far from being excessive – despite the comments made about unregulated events, most of the organised events or sportives have actually been authorised by the council and police official Safety Advisory Group, even though they don’t technically have to be – the issue seems to be however that the uninitiated see a group of say, twenty, out on a normal Sunday club run, and this gets reported back as another unauthorised ‘race’ or ’sportive’ when to you or I (or indeed the SAG or legislators) it was nothing of the sort.
I’ve also spoken to event organisers, and they complain of there being no single point or calendar created by the SAG which allows them to see what other events are going on in an area, also poor communication from the SAG over to parish councils etc – obviously this feedback has gone back to the council, and we hope for the SAG to attend the LAF in the near future to discuss their role in this, but in the meantime cyclists and event organisers are clearly getting the blame for issues that our out of their hands.
So, things ARE going on behind the scenes to neutralise much of this bad feeling, some of which is whipped up the the usual rabble rousers, There are undoubtedly some valid concerns over the pressure of so many cyclists falling in one spot, however in my experience a lot of the diatribe over ‘events’ is phantom conflict caused by sportives etc that never existed in the first place, which is probably why the police and National Trust are left scratching their heads.
Of course, people can do their bit by acting as ambassadors for our sport at all times, though maybe there are valid concerns over toilet facilities – I shall go back at the next meeting and suggest some well sited pissoirs!
they had been abused when
It’s like the New Forest ~X(
thx1138 wrote:
they had been
Wonder if they ‘ask’ the same way I usually experience being asked; by either tailgating and hanging onto the horn, or a punishment pass at high speed?
What is the big deal about
What is the big deal about Box Hill ? It’s in the comic almost weekly. Is it tougher than Everest and Higher than the Stelvio ?
Surely there are other climbs to ride – this one sounds a nightmare if the numbers are to be believed.
I’m thinking Buttertubs in the Tour – with everyone ground to a halt….
fenix wrote:What is the big
Maybe it’s just the biggest hill in a predominantly flat and but populated region of the country?
stenmeister wrote:
Not even close there are many tougher climbs within 20 miles.
Box hill has
Nice steady gradient
Switchbacks like an alpine climb
Fatastic view
Cafe
Olympic legacy
But serious cyclists should be able to find a tougher challenge.
… they had been abused when
Why, and how, are they asking riders to get out of the way? 😕
djcritchley wrote:
… they
But more importantly why are they asking cyclists to get out of the way. I’m sure a lot of HGV drivers would like to ask car drivers to get out of the way but they don’t because well …car drivers like cyclists, pedestrians and equestrians have a right to be there on the road travelling. Some people call it traffic.
Or as the old adage goes “you aren’t stuck in traffic – you are the traffic.”
sigh
Is this another ‘too
sigh
Is this another ‘too many people in one place getting grumpy with each other thing?’
The Eden Valley Epic went by just this weekend. Farmers minding junctions, young families waving and cheering by the side of road, scout groups making sandwiches. Done events in Scotland where its been the same happy story too.
Normal human beings still exist. Come north my son 😀
sounds great.
sounds great.
I am lucky enough to live not
I am lucky enough to live not far from the Surrey Hills area and go up, down, over and around Box Hill often. Its nothing special as climbs go – heck if my old legs can do it most anyone can.
Its just a pleasant venue where walkers, cyclists, motorcyclists and all sorts start, finish or pass thru.
I can not think of a single occasion when I have witnessed anti-social behaviour on the part of these groups
I dont think it is though –
I dont think it is though – cycling pals tell me there are nicer hills in the area – but I guess this is THE olympic hill.
Good to hear from Alg that he’s not witnessed any antisocial behaviour – but I guess you only need to have one cyclist wee in your garden to be put off them for life. Who wouldn’t ?
I dont think it is though –
I dont think it is though – cycling pals tell me there are nicer hills in the area – but I guess this is THE olympic hill.
Good to hear from Alg that he’s not witnessed any antisocial behaviour – but I guess you only need to have one cyclist wee in your garden to be put off them for life. Who wouldn’t ?
I am currently in Dorking at
I am currently in Dorking at work and amongst 160 odd residents of the area. I haven’t heard a single one of them mention anything about it. April to november is 8 months. That’s roughly 32 weeks. So 64 weekend days. For 17 events.
I get the feeling these particular people would moan if there was only one event a year.
it’s not surprising really,
it’s not surprising really, every time i’ve been there it’s very very busy with riders, coming down as well as going up. the hill consists of switch backs too and cars are regularly blocked. yes we can moan about cars being fools on our commutes and things, but the volume of riders here have made the area into a kind of cycle race track. It’s nothing special in term of hills, but it does has olympic status, which obviously draws the crowds in. There are other ways up for cars and residents however, but they do involve a long drive round so not ideal. I reckon the anti-social behaviour is an isolated incident, perhaps during an event, but riders shouting at cars is not uncommon and could go either way; silly car or obnoxious rider claiming the road for himself. Best avoided as it’s simply heaving all the time. Just visit the cafe at the bottom of the hill (Rykers) and have their triple fully loaded burger, it’s outstanding. Ride the hills around leith hill instead. If I were a resident there and events were constantly closing the road, i would be also annoyed and I hope all organisers follow the rules so we can all live in harmony. I ride both mtb and road, a lot so i’m not a bike basher before anyone jumps.
I know it’s got really busy
I know it’s got really busy over the last couple of years but my brother came down from oop north a while back and was blown away by the sheer number of people, many of them cyclists just being smiley and chatty at the café. There’s nothing like it where he cycles and he so wished there was. I suspect a lot of money is moving around the Surrey economy because of this cycling destination.
We get so much grief and
We get so much grief and sentiment similar to Box here in the New Forest. Locals moaning about cyclists, the amount of cyclists and on and on it goes, but take the cyclists out of the equation on a weekend and watch so many of the coffee shops lose a fair bit of cash from us annoying and loutish cyclists.
We’re not all that bad and help local economies a fair bit in my opinion. Im sure the same could be said for Box Hill.
Its a shame some of the locals dont see this really.
Is it just me or is the whole
Is it just me or is the whole peeing in front gardens thing a bit weird? Does it really happen?
I cycle in the area a lot. I’ve never seen anyone pissing in a front garden.
One of the attractions of the area are the quiet lanes and woods everywhere. Occasionally I’ve needed a pee, and I can’t see why you can’t pull off the road and step behind a tree in some woodland. It’s frankly bizarre to suggest that anyone would choose a garden over a quiet lane, particularly when the ratio of garden frontage to woods & fields must be 1000’s to 1.
nopants wrote:Is it just me
I can easily believe that the odd bit of locals land gets peed on, and maybe sometimes a bit of it that might qualify as ‘garden’- there are plenty of twunts on bikes just like everywhere else, after all. But I very much doubt that locals regularly look out their front windows to see cyclists strolling up their path and having a whizz in the middle of their lawn, which is sort of being implied.
Quote:Is it just me or is the
I was thinking that too.
I wonder if there is anything
I wonder if there is anything being done about the tacks on the road in the area every second weekend.
Personally I avoid Box Hill as a general rule. I have a choice to head north or south from the Gatwick area and find that south has quieter roads, more tolerant drivers, and – importantly – great cafes for cake stops.
The view form Box Hill IS nice though … almost as nice as the top of Kidd’s Hill (almost)
kidds is a far tougher climb
kidds is a far tougher climb and there’s no café at the top…ice cream van if you fancy one… guess people don’t want to work too hard riding up a hill…agreed though, the views are nice from both..though toys hill isn’t far from kidds and there are some nice cafes in westerham… 🙂
just out and out Nimby’s, I
just out and out Nimby’s, I would imagine cyclists peeing in garden’s is a lie frankly.
Tough these are open roads, 19 is not a lot and most events finish by midday in the Sunday, by then they would have finished reading the Sunday Torygraph.
Times are moving on, they are stuck in the 50’s, tough.
The comment about the Sunday
The comment about the Sunday Telegraph was a bit childish, time to grow up or at least make an effort ianrobo.
It’s grim up North, long may
It’s grim up North, long may it continue 🙂
Quote:It’s grim up North,
Indeed; anyone can wee in my garden; it’s the price I pay for living in paradise.
crikey wrote:Quote:It’s grim
I’d prefer them to wee than the amount of gel wrappers I find in my front garden.
crikey wrote:Quote:It’s grim
I’d prefer them to wee than the amount of gel wrappers I find in my front garden.
There may have been some
There may have been some issues towards the end of 2014 as Pebble Hill Road was closed for replacing a water main for about 3 months. For people going by car from (say) Dorking to Sutton, that meant either heading further along the A25 and taking the A217 or heading up the A24 to Epsom. Or trying to short-cut via Box Hill. This definitely increased the motor traffic up there.
From a cycling point of view, it’s the only sensible route. Riding up the A24 from Dorking to Leatherhead is unpleasant and dangerous, when Pebble Hill is open then it has narrow sections with steep sides that make it dodgy for cyclists. I’ve ridden up the A217 from Reigate a couple of times – always wondering about half-way up why on earth I thought that was a good idea. You could take Wray Lane from Reigate – which is a nice climb but still dumps you out onto the M25 J8 rbt. Lodgebottom Road (aka Little Switzerland) has cars and bikes coming down it at speed and it’s very narrow.
For a cyclist going from the Leith Hill area back to South London, Box Hill is definitely the safest and most sensible approach.
SteppenHerring wrote:
From a
To be fair there are segregated cycle paths on both sides of the A24 between Dorking and Leatherhead, though the one on the Leatherhead to Dorking side is awful with pot holes, cuttings and wet leaves, and is generally poorly maintained.
Box Hill is the sensible approach, but more importantly the most pleasant ride. It is a beautiful area, which is probably why the NIMBYs moved there. It’s not the most challenging climb but it has hairpins and we can all pretend to be riding some Col in the south of France for a few minutes.
I live closer to Leith Hill, but do ride Box Hill, though usually early in the morning to avoid the cars. On a Saturday and Sunday the car parks are jam full of cars, as is the road which is barely wide enough for two directional motor traffic. If I lived there they would be my concern: the noise, the pollution, the stereos; and if I were a rare butterfly that lived there I would admire the multi coloured Lycra sweeping past quietly, and shudder at the judder of a bad car gear selection. Cyclists are the Romanians of the road, just a scapegoat
> “There are certain things
> “There are certain things that we can tackle: the verbal abuse, the threats of physical violence”
It’s a shame this officer’s sense of duty doesn’t extend to his colleagues, who routinely ignore the same behaviour from motorists.
I’m local, and concur with a
I’m local, and concur with a lot of what the other locals say. It’s pretty and one of the better ways up onto the top of the Downs. The fact that it’s pretty is why it’s popular with everyone and why it’s National Trust.
One of the more overtly hostile local opinions comes, of all places, from the church-goers on Sunday morning. Apparently, cyclists are really annoying when you’re trying to hurry down the lanes to get to church in time. That one really does need thinking about.
The local club also does litter-picks around Box Hill ad Headley from time to time in the interests of good relationships with the NT. Unsurprisingly the bulk of the litter would appear to be car-generated although there are far too many gel packets
nniff wrote:One of the more
I’ve thought about it and concluded that the church goers should leave home a few minutes earlier.
any cyclist who chucks their
any cyclist who chucks their gel wrapper away needs to be slapped. weeing in the garden, i really find this difficult to believe. perhaps it was someone peeing by the side of a road not realizing it was part of someones vast estate.
generally I find driving abuse is a lot higher in surrey than my hampshire (except the new forest, they hate us even more), maybe its just a volume thing. more cyclists, more cars, more cyclists riding like idiots, more aggressive drivers?
Quote: I would imagine
Afraid not. Not been to Box Hill myself, but on last years London Brighton there was someone doing just this at the end of someones driveway. Someone fully kitted up with a fairly pricey bike as well, so someone who cycles regularly, not someone doing the event as a ‘one off’.
Now you might read ‘in someones garden’ as standing in the middle of their lawn, which this clearly wasn’t, but it’s still out of order. Especially when the other side of the road was a perfectly good hedge backing on to a field.
Why didn’t I say something at the time? Well by the time I had thought about it I had already gone past so … maybe I should have.
Then some other dumb-f**k decided to empty his pockets of his gel or flapjack wrappers into the road, the c**t. And I think that was the same dickhead who in Brighton caught everyone up waiting at a red light and decided that wasn’t for him and just sailed through (to plenty of boos from everyone waiting).
So you know, we aren’t all angels 😉
It is one of life’s mysteries
It is one of life’s mysteries that you can follow the trail of a hundred ramblers and never find a single item of litter but the route of a bike ride will be festooned with gel wrappers and inner tubes.
We are not blameless, although we are a few rungs up the evolutionary ladder from the average driver, obviously.
I lived close to Box Hill
I lived close to Box Hill until about 5-years ago – at that time the car park at the bottom of the hill (and Rykas Cafe) was stuffed with motorbikes, including mine. Never saw anything remotely anti-social from visitors or residents.
I’d imagine the majority of ‘the more picky locals’ would consider the more recent cycling invasion to be progress of sorts, bringing a quieter shorter peak season.
I live in Ashtead and cycle
I live in Ashtead and cycle on Box Hill every weekend, mainly road but also MTB, which is actually far better use of the area’s natural gifts – the trails that lie within the Headley road loop are great. I also do some of the events.
Honestly, I have seen antisocial behaviour from both cyclists and drivers from time to time, and I do feel a bit sorry for the local residents. The hill will always be busy – with walkers and sightseers as well as cyclists, but if there really are 19 organised events in 6 months that’s too many. The Ballbuster Duathlon is one of my favourite regular events but I thought it was fair enough when that was cut from twice a year to once. Organisers should be more imaginative and use other hills.
Residents might also want to consider that whilst they just saw a cyclist peeing inappropriately, there was probably a reason other than spite or indifference: it could have been a cyclist with prostate or kidney problems on a charity ride for all we know, mortified at their own desperate need to go.
In terms of behaviour, we can only change ourselves; be friendly to residents, be considerate to motorists, don’t rise to provocation, and let fellow cyclists know that they’re wrong if they’re wrong.
Will the change in number of
Will the change in number of cycling events really impact the residents much? In my experience, majority of (always a huge number) riders at box hill are individuals, groups, clubs riding outside of events. Capping events won’t change this much. In guessing the residents either can’t differentiate event riders from casuals, or just want to cap what they can.
As for reducing total number of riders, there’s 2 ways:
1. Stop promoting Box hill everywhere as a cycling destination, and block big coverage events (London Surrey classic) from it.
2. Put a toll booth at the 2nd switchback charging riders going up/down.
Once both these reduce cycling, quintuple the council taxes for residents to make up for revenue shortfall at cafe and other places around Dorking.
Accusations but no evidence –
Accusations but no evidence – are they making it all up?
To me it seems like creative anti cycling by a few militant trouble makers.
I’m surprised they can get it
I’m surprised they can get it together to complain most of them seem to spend their time drinking according to the local off licence