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forum
Rural roads more dangerous?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-59477788
The report just gives statistics, it doesn't give any explanation as far as I can tell. As someone that chooses rural roads wherever possible, I'm a bit baffled by this.
Do drivers take more risks because they are "out of the way" or there are less witnesses? Why would quieter roads cause more accidents?
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A few problems here https://youtu.be/0P0a_n6XgrQ?t=125
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33 comments
One thing that I have noticed when I'm out in the country is that drink-driving seems to be more frequent, and perhaps more accepted, than in town; not uncommon to see guys drinking three or four pints and then getting in the car. Presumably multiple causes including lower density of police operations, lack of public transport, more dispersed population et cetera. This is only an impression, might be completely wrong and don't mean to imply that everyone in rural areas is a drunk driver!
My experience is that this is correct, though what proportion it represents of a wider and more complex issue who knows?
Is part of that perhaps that people who are just a little over the limit, and therefore still able to make decisions (usually poor ones) and plan a route instead of being on drunk-homing-pigeon autopilot, will choose a route home using quiet rural roads over the main roads assuming they'll have a lower chance of being spotted by the police?
That's an interesting thought, yes, quite possibly that might be the case.
If you can't stop in the space you can see to be free then you are travelling too fast whether you are a cyclist or a driver. The problem is that the consequences for failing to observe this rule are very different for the two. When on country lanes I cycle on the outside of bends while listening for cars. So far I've been lucky. I'm out to enjoy the freedom and the fresh air though and I'm not interested in travelling as fast as I can. I drive on these lanes as if there is a car coming at me round every bend. Progress is slow but if I want to get somewhere quickly I don't use country lanes. As soon as you put speed above safety then you are going to get "accidents".
Most people don't do this - they drive the same whatever the road, conditions, weather.
As soon as you lose 'the view' you need to slow down..... How many people actually do this?
I think both cyclists and drivers contribute to the problems.
Two cyclists I know had accidents on single track roads - one had just set a KOM (and he is an out and out overweight rugby player on a bike - so tends to suggest he was going faster than even the local fast cyclists, just a few hundred yards from home) came round a corner to be faced with a tractor where he slid underneath but fortunately missed the wheels. He initially complained about the tractor filling the road, but then it dawned that it wasn't by choice (though they are too big these days). The tractor did stop rapidly - faster than the cyclist was able. The second was a friend who met a white van man at the worst place on a corner, neither had time to react and matey redesigned the windscreen of the van.
However, generally, we don't have problems riding as a group - on low visibility corners, the person on the outside will ride ahead to be ready, we may single file on particularly narrow roads, reduce pace for corners, and generally ride expecting a lunatic. It is unsurprisingly not unusual to be abused for forcing a motorist to slow down, and we have had instances of drivers accelerating at us where there is clear visibility to force us out of their way. We will ride two abreast on single track roads and it takes a small amount of time to re-organise when a car comes along. Motorists seem to think that we should ride low traffic routes just in case they will arrive, when often there is no traffic on these roads which we use frequently.
Locally we have very good relationships with horse riders who approeciate our early calls, covering flashing lights and friendly banter as we pass. I think we have only had one incident in about 5 years of a rider being abusive to us after we had come to a complete halt after they had lost control of their horse on an unrestricted 2 lane B road even after we had slowed as soon as we could see the horse a long way ahead.
In the end, the main problem on country lanes is motorists (and cyclists!) not understanding that they don't need to drive within their stopping distance speed on a road, they need to drive at half that speed to account for the oncoming traffic. A decent driver will be accelerating when they can see and braking when they can't. Too many drivers work to the "I am passing a cyclist therefore I do not need to consider blind bends" theory of driving.
The real test is: would they like to meet themselves coming the other way? Would you?
I don't think that question arises for most drivers.
The answer is... "I had to go on the wrong side of the road to overtake the cyclist. They are so dangerous."
I had an incident a while ago, where a driver pulled out to overtake our little group when there was a car coming, yet just kept going. The other driver stopped to give her space to pull back in. I put it down a momentary poor judgement until she did the exact same thing again shortly afterwards when somehow she ended up behind us again. Looking into the car I saw her face and it was like looking at a zombie. It was the sort of look pigeons give you while they sit in the middle of the road pecking gravel.
I always give a motorist who has slowed down or stopped for one of those motorists a big cheery thank you wave, to acknowledge their careful driving and also to acknowledge their actions have saved our overtaker from taking the soft option - us.
It'll be a combination of poor visibility (e.g. high hedges) and most likely excessive speed. A lot of drivers will assume that they can happily go along rural roads at 30mph, but sharp corners and poor sight-lines would make 30mph too fast to be able to suddenly stop before hitting someone.
Oh HP, bless you....
NSL, mate...
Well that's ok then
Relevant data here: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-...
You'll see that rural roads are those outside settlements of 10,000 - so includes A roads, etc. I think fatality rates tend to be higher on 'open' roads because of the higher driving speeds often involved (and less anticipation of vulnerable road users' presence).
Notably, while numbers of fatalities have sadly increased, the fatality rate per mile cycled seems to have dropped substantially.
And meanwhile, there's been no notable change in slight or serious injuries, so relative to cycle traffic those were down a lot.
Will have a look at the data. That definition of "outside settlements of 10,000" caught my eye, it's a bit vague. I don't think I go near a settlement that size very often!
www.gov.uk/government/collections/rural-urban-classification
and rural roads are further from hospitals, which will increase casualty rates
I've been trying to google to find details of the actual campaign, but only found something NFU Mutual were doing about young drivers. Nothing about the safety of and sharing of rural roads.
Not a great deal of information, but for what it's worth...
https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/campaigns/rural-road-safety/
Thanks, mdavidford - now why couldn't I find that page...?
EDIT: Interesting, given the comments from certain parties on that recent NMOTD, that point one on the cycling page says
and the car page says:
Trigger warning!
I understand the horse bit but why can you zoom past, hoot and rev around cyclists and motorcyclists?
Just cyclists, innit?
Because a bicycle is unlikely to kick your car door in, unlike a horse. Perhaps therein lies a possible deterrent.
I'm delighted to live and ride in Horse country, observing the BHS/BC guidelines.
I've also been conducting a trial of equipment to assist drivers to judge what 1.5 metre separation looks like to avoid errors that are unsafe and do not comply with the forthcoming Highway Code. So far so good....
"trial of equipment"
Extra long horse whip?
1.5m white plastic tube for good visibility. Less impressive but more noticeable...
That's right, boys and girls and non-binaries: the onus is on the cyclist to decide if they think it is safe (and, by implication, have space) to pull in.
I'm not sure it's possible to be non-binary, since either you are non-binary or you're not.
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