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forum
The Reform Party and the UK’s lurch towards fascism
I posted an earlier version of this a while back - inspired to do update following THAT discussion about all things ULEZ.
The “manifesto”, in terms of transport, only mentions stopping HS2, but there’s plenty on the usual right-wing obsessions: Brexit, immigration, veterans and climate change. I had another look because I worry about the ongoing decline of the two main political parties.
If the Cons stay wedded to Brexit, then we will go into the next GE with all the widespread impoverishment Brexit has ushered in - not helped by Covid, Putin, etc. People generally vote according to their pockets. I don’t get Labour’s current position on Europe either, but let’s see how that evolves, and even the Cons may also evolve, or even pivot, but time is already running out for them.
Several roads now lead to the horrors of a further lurch to the right in this country. Let’s hope Labour get the GE landslide the polls are predicting - but we’re still at least a year out from the real campaigning beginning.
A cycling angle? With the Reform Party and its ilk, Facebook Steve and Nextdoor Dave attain real political influence. It’s not spelt out in the manifesto, but you can see where this is probably heading and what it is likely to mean for cycling. You can bet that this lot are very much "on the side of hard working drivers" etc.
As you all know, Dave’s going to “sort the traffic” and no doubt show them lazy planners how it’s done: Steve thinks the Council are corrupt, the police blinkered and is, if he can fit it in to his busy schedule he’s going to “teach them Lycra’s a thing or two.” It won’t concern him that his Mondeo is 3 months out of MoT or that Mrs Steve sometimes drives the kids in it uninsured.
As vulnerable road users, vulnerable people, we rely a great deal on the rule of law for protection. The rule of law means that we understand what the laws are, they are in general fair, and how they are applied and to whom is even-handed and consistent.
The fascist position is broadly the opposite - it’s all off-the-cuff to support today’s particular agenda - that’s why the Iain Duncan-Smith “happy to see ULEZ infra vandalised” comment is, as an example, so very worrying. In the Conservatives, here is a party happy to send signals to enable the mob to attack RNLI stations, beat up immigrants, shout at teachers, doctors etc.
This right-wing stuff works by allowing/enabling significant privileged groups to to think of themselves as the downtrodden underdog and here is a way to fight back. The pro Brexit campaign played on people’s ignorance, fears and prejudices exactly as this does.
It’s all about freedom, innit, less regulation, less tax burden, and damn the climate. There’s more polar bears now, so it’s fine. Let’s have open-cast coal mining, lithium mining and fracking. The section on climate change stumbles around like a Friday night drunk, trying to explain he wasn't being racist to the barman - a denier position emerges, unsurprisingly.
In places, the mask really slips: “We must keep divisive woke ideologies such as Critical Race Theory (CRT) and gender ideology out of the classroom.” - to be honest, I don’t even know what those two are.
The standard enemies are put up - the civil service, the BBC. Amid all the thrust and parry, there’s nothing about making a better, more inclusive and cohesive world to live in; arts, sports and culture don’t feature in this barstool view of the world: a dullard’s grim vision.
Don’t be a member of the wrong sort of minority would be my advice, should any of this come to pass.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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我的媽和她的瘋狂的外甥都 ・ Wuh duh ma huh tah duh fong kwong duh wai shung
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I prefer to not outright call them "Christian" as their politics are almost completely opposite to the teachings of Christ (e.g. love your neighbour, welcome the poor and needy etc). They're picking and choosing bits of religion to justify destroying education and women's rights.
When we've been on holiday in the U.S., we were surprised at how religious they are. We visited a relative of a relative and they were very nice and welcoming, but when we out to a meal, they insisted on saying Grace. We were forewarned that they're like that, so we just went along with it as we didn't want to unnecessarily insult them (as an atheist, I see it as just a meaningless tradition). The UK is very much less religious than the U.S.
(sticking to Christian examples for fear of being smitten).
Well, there are relatively few religious DIY enthusiasts in the "West" - or at least they're mostly doing their own thing locally and few others join them. Most find it convenient to employ professionals. The more successful groups are either old (so have traditions which don't necessarily fit current fashions), based on same, or making it up as they go along (revelation / charismatic leader) in which case it does seem you get their personal quirks emerging as the Word of God.
And as to "picking and choosing bits of religion" isn't that ... most religions, as they go? Even the "original" generally grows out of some existing tradition, and ones which stick around go through at least one phase of "now let's get policy straight" (see Council of Nicaea, the Diet of Worms etc. - sorry, the latter much later I just like the name). Not infrequently in conjunction with some old-fashioned politics. At least that's how Christianity as we knew it more than 1700 years ago got its start...
By "picking and choosing", I mean they disregard all the numerous mentions of hoarding wealth to be a sin and instead put a lot of their focus on demonising LBTQ+ people.
Not to mention their disregard of certain commandments such as making no idols, bearing false witness against your neighbours, taking the name of God in vain (e.g. saying that God is against something when that's just their personal opinion), adultery, stealing, coveting etc.
Pro tip: if you see a wealthy Christian leader, then they're only Christian in name and are looking to exploit people.
Opinions vary but to my unscholarly reading it does seem that the voice of God deferred to contemporary Hebrew mainstream opinion in those days (or possibly took agin' some practices which were associated with the cults of neighbouring tribes or polities).
You seem to be leaving out some yourself: it wouldn't hurt you to eat kosher once in a while, or keep the odd fast. Oh - and if you could avoid mixing fibres in your garments that would be peachy.
Well yes, but I'm not convinced that the various bibles/religious texts are the literal word of God. Also, the list could do with being optimised: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk81tUUhRig
If you can't take something as basic and logical as a text's self-declaration of infallibility (or at least divine guidance / inspiration) as gospel - as it were - I'm not sure how you're going to get started...
EDIT: thinking again, perhaps if you just take all such texts and compare them, throwing out the disagreements, perhaps it would be possible to arrive at a general consensus? Douglas Adams had a go I think...
I prefer the mathematical approach which is not whether something is necessarily true in itself, but whether it is self-consistent and leads to interesting or useful conclusions. I particularly like the Banach-Tarski paradox as an example of an absurd result despite it being true and following on from the axioms:
https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-a-mathematical-paradox-allows-infinite-cloning-20210826/
(That's where I find the bible to be flawed - it's so inconsistent)
"The Bible is broken" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYMrVWlrXNM
我的媽和她的瘋狂的外甥都 ・ Wuh duh ma huh tah duh fong kwong duh wai shung
"Come to (insert frisky UK town here) and enjoy a night out in one of the UK's famous A&E units".
Isn't "adventure tourism" a thing again with the influencers? The
localstravelling rent-a-mob certainly provide "lively local customs" which would look striking in your TikTok...I think it may because for the UK - compared even to many European countries, this stuff is rare.
Compare to France, say. Or the extent of Far Right politics across the four FIGS countries with the UK, or former Eastern Europe.
One of my concerns is that Reform's search for a future is giong to lead to the blurring of lines, and some of the Tory MPs who have been placed in the dustbin of history by the voters may lose it. My MP is Lee Anderson, and I think he is way out of his depth.
Liz Truss's support for Trump was a bit of a shocker, even given her fairly loopy history; I don't think there are many UK politcians who will overlook that Trump is a sex-abuser and a career criminal who has corrupted everything he has touched.
Ex Conlservative MP Andrew Bridgen turning up on stage at the Tommy Robinson rally in Trafalgar Square was also concerning.
Maybe it should be - but as many have said (Neil Kinnoch for one IIRC) "if you're not in power, it's a hobby". (Albeit one with some substantial perks).
Trump seems an irresistable magnet for many voters who are prepared to overlook a great deal of personal "details". After all - not a few of the more powerful politicians have very shady things on their records one way or another. Boris would be one and not just for his sexual shenanigans. Given the pull of Trump most (not all) Republicans decided to hold their noses and go along at least, to stay in business. Some went far further!
Would that be the conspiracy-peddling Andrew Bridgen?
My condolences. He would be out of his depth in a puddle of urine on the floor of a Wetherspoon's lavatory...he constantly reminds me of the excellent phrase of the late Tony Banks describing the vile Tory MP Terry Dicks: "He is living proof that a pig's bladder on a stick can get elected to Parliament."
Pound shop Mark Francois.
Oh and it's Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Who has run away...
He didn't like obeying our laws and cultural mores so he followed his own advice and left the country.
(Living it large in Cyprus, allegedly, which is not bad for a declared bankrupt).
No no no! It's because he was oppressed and had his country stolen from him (legitimate grievances) - he's basically a refugee! (Indeed he apparently suggested claiming asylum in the US at one point). Must be something drastic anyway because "England 'till I die" apparently.
It's certainly not just because he derailed himself from a more conventional career via a violent assault and has subsequently made a a life of ... well, folks can read his career, convictions (beliefs and criminal ones) and where some of the money comes from on e.g. Wikipedia. Who knows, he could be reading this and it is alleged (by dodgy types e.g. by the BBC, UK courts etc.) that he and/or friends have sometimes turned up to "remonstrate" with those he feels are out of order!
Just read the wikipedia article
I had half expected him to be another privately educated 'man of the people' (eg. Farage) and am slightly disappointed that he isn't (shows my own prejudices, I guess).
No, it's not that case - I believe he "puts his
fistsmoney whereyourhis mouth is".You can be forgiven - he is double barrelled after all.
You would think so, but Robert Jenrick described his support on the BBC on Sunday.
Whether he believes that or is saying because he thinks it will go down well with the Tory member I don't know, but when you think that through both options are terrifying.
One number to watch for will be how many Tory members are left.
The last published number I saw was 172k in 2022, and reports closer to 100k.
RefUKs claimed 65k came from somewhere, and I don't see the Tories staying ahead of LDs (90k+ 2023) or GPEW (60k last month).
They do know he isn't the President, right?
that is what unfortunately happens with protests, they almost always turn violent.
Lots in the news at the moment about Musk
trying to buy the UK toowanting to donate massive funds to Reform UK…I don't think it matters so much in this context, as a former president and candidate for the next presidency an attack on him is still seen as an attack on the office of president. Americans also have much more respect for their former leaders than we generally do as well, I don't think anyone would consider addressing Liz Truss or Boris Johnson as "prime minister" now but even though it's technically incorrect it's very much commonplace for anyone who has held the office of president to be addressed as "Mr. President" for the rest of their lives.
wrong on a couple of counts - virtually none of this is in any sense protest - there's a "cause" put up to rally people to (could be almost anything) and then because it is aimless thuggery it soon turns violent and to looting and vandalism.
second point is that JSO protests for example are pretty peaceful by comparison - a bit of orange liquid, a disruptive sit-in - very little about singling out members of ethnic minorities and harassing, bullying and assaulting them.
With all that money, he could wipe out hunger/homelessness/diseases, but instead he's trying to promote fascism wherever he can.
Billionaires are mainly (with maybe one or two exceptions) thoroughly evil people who gain their money by exploiting people around them or who work for them. It's like some kind of hoarding disease, but instead of treating them in hospitals, society elevates them to some kind of deity to be worshipped/emulated etc.
I wonder how many billionaires we'd have to kill to get the rest of them to behave?
I see we have a running mate now - brilliant. It must have been like this in Europe in the 1930s, watching a country risk descending into this madness and seemingly nothing to put the brakes on.
I've lost track of what Trump stands for now, like what he wants to be different in the world if he (God spare us) wins in a few months' time.
any violence at JSO protests is normally from (surpise) drivers. Be interesting to see if any of these rioters, or the instigators of the riots face sanctions as severe as environemental protestors are facing.
He's tackling the disease of liberal democracy.
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