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forum
Tiagra 4700 50/34 with 11-46 Sunrace 10 speed cassette
I have just updated by Tiagra 4700 rear cassette from the 11-34 to 11-46 Sunrace cassette and share my experience (I have 50/34 at the front):
1. First I removed the old chain with a 10 speed link remover : no problem.
2. Next I tried with much attempt to remove the existing cassette with a universal Shimano cassette lock ring remover, but with no success.
So I headed down the local bike shop, where they removed it quickly and put on the new Sunrace cassette. There I decided to buy a dedicated cassette lock ring remover and wrench all in one.
3. Then I removed the rear derailleur and screwed on the derailleur extended, pushing it as far back as possible
4. Then I screwed back on the rear derailleur and screwed in the B-screw.
5. Finally I added the 10 speed chain, by going big-big - it was too short! Thankfully I had bought two chains with quick links. I began with about 6 extra links and after 2.5 hours I worked it only only needed about 2 extra links, using 2 quicklinks as well. So I can cycle in big-big safely, but the cage is not long enough for small front and the 2 smallest sprockets at the back. I do not know of any 10 speed rear long cage derailleur which may work.
6. Re-indexing was quite easy and simple to do.
7. I trialled it yesterday for a 50 mile ride and overall I am very pleased. Up the steepest hills I can spin far more easily. There is noticeably a change in cadence when I change gear. There can be a slight unsettling feeling on the odd occasion when I back pedal, so I will seek to abstain from that. I ensured I did not use small-small gears. I tend to keep to the middle of the cassette on the flat.
8. On another note, I bought a 0.5% chain wear checker to replace my 0.75% checker, and I am glad I did. I was beginning to have chainsuck on the old chain : it passed the 0.75% check, but not the 0.5% check.
Overall it took me about 7 hours to do.
Any comments from others?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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17 comments
Hi all. Hope ye don't mind me waking this thread back up... So I did something similar. First I changed my tiagra 4700 chain set to absolute blacks 46/30. Which was ok but I needed to drop more in order to climb the hills around me fully loaded. So I swapped out the Shimano 11-34 cassette for a sunrace 11-40 mx3 and dropped the tiagra derrailieur using a sunrace dropper (much cheaper than wolf tooth). Mostly easy to install..... Had to file the crank arms a bit to get them to sit correctly with the chainrings. And the derrailieur cage is ever so slightly fowling the sunrace dropper so it doesn't want to drop into the 11 tooth. I never use that cog anyways so I adjusted the bottom limit for now so it runs from 13-40... Until I can work out why the cage is hitting the dropper. Otherwise it all works really well! No chain sag. The front tiagra derrailieur is a little unhappy with the 46,30 but nothing a can't live with although I am tempted to swap it for a grxn at some point. I live in Asturias in a very mountainy area and use the croix de fer as a tourer and the changes have made life a lot lot easier!
Quite a bit of a hack I see with having to file the crank arms a bit! I don't understand the bit about the derailleur cage fowling the Sunrace dropper, I hope you are able to sort that out, as having a 46/13 top gear is not that high for fast down hills. It is good you have no chain sag; I cannot use the 2 smallest rear cogs when on the 34 front chain ring, but I am very used to that now that I have had this set up for about 2 months. I am very very pleased with it. Up very steep hills I have so much more power. There are issues though when I am heavy laden going up steep hills, as I struggle to keep the bike and handlebars pointing straight forwards: I zig zag a lot and can feel a little out of control at times. I am glad for you that you are finding the gearing easier.
Essentially the side plate on the derrailieur cage hits the Sunrace dropper and that stops it going down into the 11 tooth. Actually I very very rarely use the 11 tooth. I ride either loaded or on gravel so don't really pedal flat out much. The cranks were a bit of a pain but not that bad. You only have to do it with tiagra cranks. The chain rings fit straight onto ultegra or 105 cranks...in retrospect I would probably have just used the FSA ones but have to say the absolute black do look really good!
I'd post a pic but can't workout how
Having considered all your advice, I may save up for the Shimano GRX 46/30, but I am not keen on also buying a front mech too.
I don't think Tiagra disc version comes with a triple groupset.
Kil0ran - thanks for sharing your thought process. I don't do any great distances and usually pootle along on a front 50 (on a compact chainset). But have a nagging thought that a 48 or even 46 might suit my 'style' better (and I wouldn't wish my style on anyone
)
Grumpy John - I used to have an 'urban hybrid' (Giant Rapid) with a 52/42/30 FSA triple and 8 speed cassette. Maybe that's the rut Shimano are in, old school triples, fine around town, not so fine for touring or off road.
I'd have saved myself all that bother and fitted the Tiagra triple. £70 for the chainset, £60 for the shifter, £20 for the front mech. Probably lighter than an 11-46 cassette, if weight bothers you.
Cheap, low gears, no gaps, no chain length issues. Sorted.
Quite an extreme way to get those gears, but each to their own - happy that it works and a good indication that you can tweak beyond the stated parameters if you want
One of my drop-bar bikes has an old SLX 28/42 10sp chainset and, with an 11-34 cassette and older 10sp 105 GS gears gives me enough gears for anything with luggage on road or rough stuff, though not a substitute for a MTB.
Generally speaking I think if you want seriously low gears on a road bike you need to give somethig up: weight and availability (triple) gappy (large cassette) gears for going fast (smaller chainset).
I am finding that I spend more time in the big ring with my 46/30 than I did with a standard compact. I think I'm just used to CX gearing because my commuter ran 46/36 for a while but I seem more able to push a mid-cassette ring for longer on a 46 than I did on the 50. Used to find myself quite often in really odd combinations like 34/16 on the 50/34.
Interesting. Are you shifting this with a road double FD?
11-46 must be gappy as hell, and I'm amazed the mech can handle it.
Not for me, but I'll look forward to you passing me on the hills.
It is not 'as gappy as hell',although I take your point. There are certainly cadence compromises though but I had to compromise somewhere as I have a 1in5 incline on my daily commute with a stone rucksack on my back. Grinding at less than 50rpm is too tough in wet dark and dangerous road environment!
You have two problems:
1. The system is well outside the capacity of the rear mech and shouldn't be used as it is. Slack chain in some gears is asking for trouble...
2. NO OTHER REAR MECH, new or old, will work with your shifters and 10sp cassette, as the 4700 groupset is an oddball (shifter pull is an 11sp equivalent). An 11sp rear mech would only work with a 11sp cassette with only 10 cogs available. The geometry of the older road and MTB mechs is different also.
Personally I'd use smaller cassette and combine it w smaller large chainring, E.g. 11-40 and 44T in order to achieve a safe compromise.
In the quest for ever more spinny gears I went the opposite way and fitted a 46/30 crankset (FSA Tempo Adventure). All in cost £110, including the square taper BB and took about an hour to fit. No need to resize chain, in fact I didn't even have to drop the front mech.
What mech extender did you use? Personally I wouldn't risk running a setup where all cassette/chainring combinations aren't usuable. Easy to make shifting mistakes when you're tired and end up destroying the mech.
Thank you. For me a 10% gear drop would not have been enough but that combined with a bigger cassette sounds good as I can keep chain length reasonable.
I use the Sunrace extender.
I tend not use small small anyway so I'm not concerned about not using them, but I value your advice.
Hi Kil0ran, how did the crankset go? Were you pleased with it and what cassette do you run? thnx
Very happy with it. Paired with an 11-34 Tiagra cassette and Tiagra 4700 GS rear mech. Front mech is either the new R7000 105 or the revised 5800 105, I can't remember which (they're basically the same, the one with the new cable routing and on-mech tension adjustment)
Shifting is good, setup was easy, and I think it looks the part for a gravel/tourer - very functional with understated white graphics. Nice slightly textured finish. Paired with an Ultegra-level square taper BB. Everything is standing up very well to the mud, sand, and gravel I'm chucking at it on forest tracks at the moment. Somewhat unintentionally it also matches the rest of the bike because I've got FSA stem, bars, wheels and seatpost - a small thing but it makes my aesthetic brain happy
IMG_20190817_083149 (1).jpg
I looked at three options for smaller chainrings - requirement was a 2x10 with ideally a 30T inner.
Options I found were:
Miche Graf (https://road.cc/content/review/265202-miche-graff-4630-sub-compact-doubl...) - uses HollowTech BB and existing front mech. Around £110 but not widely available
FSA Tempo Adventure - requires conversion to square taper (JIS) BB. Around £80 for the crankset and £20 for the BB.
Shimano GRX - requires a new front mech (although I reckon it would be OK but sub-optimal with your existing mech). £95 plus around £27 for the front mech (GRX 400)
So overall prices are about the same. All the usual crank lengths are available. The Tempo is the heaviest, particularly when factoring in the square taper BB. GRX is the lightest but most expensive and requires the most faff to fit because you'll need to change your front mech.
There are other options such as the Praxis Alba, but these are much more expensive and I don't see the point now that there's greater choice in this market.
Of course, there's a ready market for your old chainset if it's not completely worn out, or it can go in the parts bin for that winter build. Overall that makes this a cheap and easy upgrade. Depending on the option you go for at most 1 or 2 hours work.
As to the outcome - for me I've found it really suits the off-road riding I'm doing at the moment. I can certainly winch up steeper gradients than I could with my compact. I do find I spend longer in the big ring than I used to but that's no big issue.