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Disc Brakes and the Tour de France con.
Anyone else irritated by the continual shots of wheels with disc brakes during this year's Tour?
Bearing in mind fewer than 50% of bikes in the peleton are actually using them, we have to wonder why so much attention is being paid to them and why consequently the Tour organisers are happy for their event to be used to promote a lie.
Its important to know that virtually every shot we see during the Tour has a commercial imperitive, so it's almost certain that there is a commercial decision behind showing so many shots of disc brakes despite the reality.
For me one of the very few down sides of the rise in popularity of cycling is the parrallel growth of a voracious industry that in some ways has been as much cycling's enemy as it has its friend. The determination by the cycle industry to force disc brakes on cyclists is an example of this.
The industry and more specifically the industry's marketing people are no longer (if they ever were) in the least bit interested in how different technologies will benefit people and cycling. The priority is always to promote innovations and technologies that will first benefit their profits. Any benefit to cyclists is entirely coincidental. This admittedly cynical view appears to be reaching its apotheosis with the now wholesale drive to disc brakes. And it's probably no coincidence that the bike industry itself, after many years of spectacular growth is starting to level out. The debate as to whether rim brakes or disc brakes are superior has become irrelevant to an industry that has become obsessed with the prospect of millions of road-bike-riding consumers buying a new frame and rescuing them for another few years at least.
A similar thing happened a decade ago with bottom bracket standards, but that was disorganised and messy (cyclists are still paying the price for that one - literally). If the TDF shots are anything to go by, this new con is simpler and far better organised. Probably because it is benefitting all the relevant manufacturers roughly equally as they stare at falling sales.
So here we are. Watching the 2019 Tour de France punctuated by endless shots of bicycle wheels adorned with disc brakes, despite less than 50% of Tour bikes actually using them. All to develop the idea in people's heads that they really do need to get rid of that dated road bike they've been riding for at least six months and get something a bit more up to date.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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38 comments
I see boasson Hagen faked a puncture to get loads of shots of his wheels on the chase back.
"Constantly adjusting brakes"?! Methinks somebody needs to take a course on how to set up brakes. Like BTBS I can ride for months without adjusting my brakes and, when I do need to do something, it is simply a matter of turning the screw to tighten up the cable. Less work than pumping up the tyres or cleaning and lubricating the chain.
On the never ending argument....
I do wonder how much braking power varies depending on price/quality of the parts being used. My Campag Super Record rim brakes (blue pads on Shamal Mille rims) are much better than the SRAM Red disc brakes on my new (gravel) bike. I have been using disc brakes since 2003 and they have always been noisier (scraping, squeeling) than my rim brakes have ever been. I had a 210mm disc on the front of my mtb and, while very effective, I don't think it was better than the Avid Ultimate v-brakes on my tourer. They were just phenomenal.
I barely brake anyway. Antcipation and a bit of forward planning is all you need most of the time. Unless you're banging about like some fixie courier I can't really see why you'd be hard on the brakes apart from downhill. Lot of people comfort brake then as well.
I use the same take on driving and motorcycling, keep a gap, roll off early before speed limit changes, watch your junctions and hard braking is never needed.
I could drive with drum brakes it would probably never be problem.
That works a lot of the time, but not so much in busy city traffic when cars can turn right with no significant warning or pull out of side roads without looking.
Just yesterday I was filtering on the left hand side of stationary cars and as I was approaching one driver decided to move leftwards (I have no idea why - there was no oncoming traffic that she was making room for etc) which could have trapped me if I were slower on the brakes or my brakes less controllable/powerful. I daresay rim brakes would also have worked as it was nice and dry, but if it were wet then I probably would have hit something as I had to stop in the space of about a meter or so.
been checking and looks like the hay bale mega marketing co' has outbid the sunflower promo' fed and the lavender growers consortium seem to have headed south....also notice that the cameras seem to spend a lots of time on riders in team kit!
100's maybe 1000's of bikes to choose from out there unless you really do need a TDF team lookalike
tonight I'll be checking if roofscapes with chimney pots get more coverage than those without
I think cyclists will make up their own minds as to whether they need disc brakes or not. You don't have to buy them, or a new bike with them on. As long as they still offer bikes with rim brakes, that is.
Fingers crossed on that.
There's no forcing on me. I've wanted them since the 80's. They are now affordable, I can ride for months without constantly adjusting my brakes, and reliable braking in the wet and I don't damage my rims.
What about all the carbon wheels in the shots with their braking surfaces that don't work well with rim brakes and rim brakes damaging the brake surfaces!
What's not to like about discs? Bottom brackets are a nightmare, wish they would just keep to BSA, I dont' want to get a press fit but that limits the choice.
Maybe not and fair enough, but it's bad for cycling if the choice of brakes is removed for everyone. I think this is a real possibility, with cheap calipers being left as standard only on budget and kids' bikes. I've got a sense this is what the industry wants just because it suits them.
I prefer calipers on my Look every time, but for my gravel bike and MTB it's got to be discs. That's my opinion and loads of people, many of whom know what they're talking about, share it. On the other hand, many don't. That's the point.
Standardising BB's works for cyclists. As does standardising wheel size, pedal thread sizes, dropout widths etc., etc. Crucially this is not the same as taking away one of two brake type options.
Clueless post, I can ride for months without adjusting my brakes, I have reliable braking in the wet and I don't damage my rims, they wear at a known rate taking many tens of thousands of miles, overall it's cheaper to ride rim brake wheels than discs.
What about carbon wheels, I can brake plenty fine on carbon at speed, funnily enough the pros can manage it from ridiculously high speeds and it's the traction of the tyres and the skill of the rider that is the limiting factor, as it is in the wet.
What's not to like about discs, having to buy into a completely new system, new frame, no interchangability to anything you already own in terms of wheels, basically a shit ton of money, ugly looks, squealing brakes regularly, heavier bikes. Then you get to the risk compensation, disc brakes haven't improved incidents, riders simply go faster and brake later.
Choose what you like but discs offer nothing significant over rim brakes for road bikes, not worth it in any way shape or form.
You can stop with most anything, the pros generally seem to think they offer an advantage in the wet.
Interchangability depends on how many bikes you already have, and what type they are. You might a collection, but many people will be getting or exchanging a singular bike, in which case the point is moot. Also what you might wish for in the future shouldn't really be hold back by what you had in the past. My old 5-speed free-wheels were incompatible with my current 10- and 11-speed gear, so what. My old caliper brakes from the '70s were nominally compatible and I couldn't care less - they stopped me but they were utter shite in comparison to stuff from the last few eyars and I wouldn't have them a bike for any money.
Ugly ? Opinion, I generally prefer them - from an engineering point of view most caliper brakes apart from Campagnolo Delta brakes (and they were functionally terrible) look like horrible post-design bodges bolted on to a otherwise clean frame, but that's my own view. Anyway, who cares what other people think, there's lovely looking bikes with many types of brake.
More expensive ? Yeah, difference is going down but they are.
Squealing ? Sometimes, sometimes a bit more than rim.. generally not with decent hydraulics.
Heavier ? Yeah, seems to be in the order of a couple of hundred grammes or so these days. So what.
Advantages ? I'd say so, but you've not mentioned those areas.
As you say, it's up to the individual - and what they consider is 'worth it' to them.
"A similar thing happened a decade ago with bottom bracket standards, but that was disorganised and messy (cyclists are still paying the price for that one - literally). "
Did anyone actually buy a new bike just to get a new bottom bracket?
No but I'm tempted to, PF30 is driving me bonkers!
OMG, I just made the (by now surely) uncontroversial point that when a few companies decided to mess with the long-established BB standard it turned into a fiasco. They did it because they thought there was money in it, not because it would make cycling better, although obviously that was how it was sold.
It's cost a lot of cyclists money and hassle because the designs were not standard and the engineering and manufacturing was often rubbish and, amongst other problems, the BB shells and bearings would become noisy and fail.
This would definitely impress the "guys in the club". But only certain types of club.
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Disc brakes are just a fashion accessory designed to persuade the foolhardy to open their wallets.
Nothing wrong with that, we all like new things but I have commuted for many years rain or shine and have never had any trouble stopping when I wanted to, with my XT cantilevers and there are some big hills here in Wales and a lot of rain!
Disc brakes are totally unecessary on a road bike in my opinion, if you have a different opinion then fine, go ahead and buy them, it's just that I don't need them, so will spend my money on something else that is genuinely useful, not just to impress the guys in the club.
Sounds to me like you're not fitting the disc brakes correctly if you're using them as a fashion accessory. I've had some success by fitting the rotor to the wheel hubs (centerlock) and attaching the calipers/hoses to the forks and through to the levers.
I can totally see your point though, if you've got XT cantilevers already fitted, then adding disc brakes as well is complete unnecessary. Most people would go for one or the other.
I'm intrigued about impressing guys in night-clubs with spangly disc rotors - would that work with women as well? Probably akin to the medallions that 70's guys were fond of.
I, for one, welcome our new disc brake overlords.
No, I'm saving my irritation for the first flat/wet stage, thankfully my TV has a mute button
For as far back as I can remember, even on the highlights programs, the cameras have gone for shots of front wheels, back wheels, saddles, riders bums - so I don't see anything different. Apart from the views you now get from the backward-pointing cams on the saddles of some of the bikes.
Haven't noticed any more than usual shots of hubs particularly, and only noticed the disc brakes once, having just seen the highlights of stage 3, noticed themon Alaphillipes bike as he was on his own with the usual shots being made.
"...to promote a lie"
What a drama queen!
What is this "lie" you speak of? That there is a choice so people can make up their own mind?
Assuming that Daddylonglegs works, I wonder if he does as his employer tells him to, a bit like some riders using discs and then I am sure that there are others who chose to ride them.
I think this post is a cynical marketing ploy by dark agents working for the tin foil industry.
Mark my words, the next post from Daddylonglegs will include an origami diagram for how to make a hat.
Personally I think you are talking cobblers about the connection between the TDF coverage and the marketing. You just sound like a disc refusenic coming up with more reasons to hate them.
Marketeers going to market - what else do you expect - having said that there have been much worse fads than Disc brakes - BB's of course but arguably MTB wheels too. Gravel bikes are arguably just a rigid MTB with much scarier hand holds for a rough downhill, but if they get a few more people commuting on our shoddy road and cycle paths - fair play.
So I think you need to ask yourself whether you feel better now you have vented your spleen or not. If not I think you need to get out on your bike a little more - regardless of which brakes you choose.
On the subject of TV marketing - there was a Carbury's Caramel advert written just for you....
I was watching it today. Just happened to notice the multiple cuts to the centres of various front wheels going round - always discs - and got a sense there was a point being made Just an observation, that's all.
I have several bikes, some with discs some without.
I ride (train) five days a week. Spent 10 years in the bike business.
I went to a lot of trouble to be as clear as possible with my point. Obviously still not clear enough for everyone.
Have to admit, I'd assumed it was meant to be artful "wheels in motion" type shots...
I doubt that there's an *active* intention to "encourage people to buy disc brake bikes", BUT (BUT!) I think its fair to say that seeing them on so many professional-level bikes is going to encourage people to buy them, whatever the intention.
Thank you brooksby. Kind of seems obvious really. I'd be less cynical about it if the editor started choosing more 'arty' shots of non-disc wheels going round. They do constitute most of the peloton after all...
What a fucking LOLfest. Do you honestly think manufacturers search through these forums looking for posts such as the one made above and burst into tears because a few luddites refuse to embrace change & better braking? Do they fuck. The fact of the matter is that they're here to stay and no amount of online posts will change it.
And I post this as somebody who uses calipers.
And also: shock horror that the world's biggest bike race is used as a marketing platform! Who knew?!
Sooo much anger...
I wasn't talking to manufacturers, I was expressing a view on a forum.
Unlike you, I use both types. Both have their advantages. I've been a mechanic and raced as an amateur.
Who said the TDF wasn't a marketing platform?
I Suggest you read the post Rapha. Or maybe just stick to tennis.
"Calipers"? Calipers! Gawd, my latest bike has centre pull cantilevers and I'm happy with that
The Tour de France started out as a way to flog papers. Buying a disc bike is not mandatory.
Also I'd be surprised if there really was that much cooperation between bike sellers and the broadcasters. Refer to this video of Bauke Mollema in last month's Giro which I'm sure SRAM weren't thrilled about.
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