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hawkinspeter [2380 posts] 1 week ago
3 likes
Quote:

Sakine Cihan was struck by a power-assisted bicycle as she was crossing a road in London

If you run into a road, then anything you hit will likely cause you some injury. I just can't believe they're trying to push this rubbish.

Here's a link to The Sun that has the CCTV footage: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7136632/cctv-video-dalston-hit-run-bike-cr...

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Mungecrundle [1066 posts] 1 week ago
5 likes

Terrible that the lady has died and my condolences to her family and friends.

If the vehicle she ran into (I have seen the footage from one angle) had been an uninsured van or motorcycle then I think quite rightly there would be accountability on the part of the driver as to why they were on the road. The same could be argued if this turns out to be an illegally modified electric vehicle unfit for road use, even if that fact is immaterial to the actual collision and injuries caused.

The press reporting on this incident is shockingly bad in the use of emotive language. I guess in time the reasons why the rider left the scene and abandoned the bike will come clear, but my understanding is that he suffered a head injury in the collision and may have been in a state of confusion. Certainly not in the same league as knowingly hitting someone and driving off to leave them dying on the roadside alone.

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vonhelmet [1085 posts] 1 week ago
2 likes

The most hilarious part of that article is the bit where it says that 1 in 20 people are likely to buy an e bike in the next 12 months. Utter cobblers.

In other news, I can’t help but wonder whether the reason the rider fled is that the bike was nicked. Has it been confirmed that it was definitely his?

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ktache [924 posts] 1 week ago
3 likes

And don't forget "A YouGov survey by Ovo Energy this month found that almost half of cycling commuters would switch to e-bikes if the cap was lifted"

Well I'm guessing I'm in the other half.

Might get one when I need it, and have nothing against them, just don't want one for me.  It's got a motor.

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Simon E [3382 posts] 1 week ago
8 likes

e-bikes, the biggest threat to road safety! Yeah, right.

Meanwhile every year 1,800 people die and 180,000 more are injured on the UK's roads. 99.7% of these are caused by people driving motorbikes, cars, vans and lorries.

The way cycle-related incidents are reported in the media suggests to me that there are influential people who feel threatened by the popularity of cycling and by e-bikes.

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hirsute [410 posts] 1 week ago
9 likes
Simon E wrote:

e-bikes, the biggest threat to road safety! Yeah, right.

Meanwhile every year 1,800 people die and 180,000 more are injured on the UK's roads. 99.7% of these are caused by people driving motorbikes, cars, vans and lorries.

The way cycle-related incidents are reported in the media suggests to me that there are influential people who feel threatened by the popularity of cycling and by e-bikes.

You beat me to it.

 

Meanwhile

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/16837768.ben-moisey-jailed-after-lex...

Moisey, of Ilex Close, Colchester, admitted dangerous driving, criminal damage, driving while disqualified and two counts of assault.

He has 31 convictions for 84 previous offences and had already racked up nine driving bans and driven while disqualified twice before.

When he is released from jail Moisey will be banned from the roads for 47 months.

 

BUt obviously ebikes are a great danger.

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hirsute [410 posts] 1 week ago
6 likes

"A Newcastle-based firm of solicitors, Browell Smith and Co, said there were “fewer restrictions on e-bike use on UK roads than motorbikes yet they do pose an increased risk of danger on the roads”. "

[citation required]

Motorcylists can't use cycle lanes but can use motorways, so what does the 'fewer' refer to?

Increased risk compared to what exactly?

 

 

"however, users of e-bikes should be made aware of any potential differences, such as the bike’s weight,"

Let's ban lardy riders too due to their increased mass.

 

Let's see 1500kg vehicle with 70kg person going at 50 kph

v

Ebike 25kg with 70 kg person going at 25 kph

 

Yep it's ebike all the way.

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BehindTheBikesheds [2304 posts] 1 week ago
4 likes
Simon E wrote:

e-bikes, the biggest threat to road safety! Yeah, right.

Meanwhile every year 1,800 people die and 180,000 more are injured on the UK's roads. 99.7% of these are caused by people driving motorbikes, cars, vans and lorries.

The way cycle-related incidents are reported in the media suggests to me that there are influential people who feel threatened by the popularity of cycling and by e-bikes.

Cyclists are at fault for 4 in circa 12500 deaths in the last 7 years, government figures, that's 0.032%, 1 in every 3000 road death.

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Mungecrundle [1066 posts] 1 week ago
6 likes
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:
Simon E wrote:

e-bikes, the biggest threat to road safety! Yeah, right.

Meanwhile every year 1,800 people die and 180,000 more are injured on the UK's roads. 99.7% of these are caused by people driving motorbikes, cars, vans and lorries.

The way cycle-related incidents are reported in the media suggests to me that there are influential people who feel threatened by the popularity of cycling and by e-bikes.

Cyclists are at fault for 4 in circa 12500 deaths in the last 7 years, government figures, that's 0.032%, 1 in every 3000 road death.

That is a genuinely useful and concise factoid to have handy for any discussion on the subject.

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RMurphy195 [149 posts] 1 week ago
0 likes
hirsute wrote:

 

Motorcylists can't use cycle lanes but can use motorways, so what does the 'fewer' refer to?

 

 

One of my bugbears is that motorbikes ARE allowed to use some cycle lanes!

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mattsccm [378 posts] 1 week ago
0 likes

Then they are not cycle lanes but lanes to allow and encourage motorcycles. Bit like saying that buses shouldn't be in motorcycle lanes. 

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brooksby [3513 posts] 1 week ago
0 likes
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:
Simon E wrote:

e-bikes, the biggest threat to road safety! Yeah, right.

Meanwhile every year 1,800 people die and 180,000 more are injured on the UK's roads. 99.7% of these are caused by people driving motorbikes, cars, vans and lorries.

The way cycle-related incidents are reported in the media suggests to me that there are influential people who feel threatened by the popularity of cycling and by e-bikes.

Cyclists are at fault for 4 in circa 12500 deaths in the last 7 years, government figures, that's 0.032%, 1 in every 3000 road death.

1 in 3000? Wow... :-O

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Simon E [3382 posts] 1 week ago
0 likes
Quote:

For those that have never used an e-bike, it’s important to realise that the bike does not motor along beneath you. Rather, sensors will measure the pedal stroke hundreds of times and generate power to assist pedalling. It feels like the motor is in the rider’s quads, not the bike’s cranks.

Owing to EU regulation, once an e-bike reaches 25kmh the electronic assistance cuts out. Again, if the motor is too powerful up to this point then cuts out entirely then the sensation is like dropping an anchor behind the bike.

STEPS uses a graduated drop-off, which lets the power off proportionally as you approach 25kmh to make the transition smoother.

Shimano’s experience of cycling meant that the using STEPS felt like normal cycling, and not hopping on a moped.

From http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/5273/shimano-steps-e6100-e-bike-review

Is a relatively small number of such bikes really a danger to others on the streets of London? Give me a break!

This is about big money and influential people seeing a form of liberation for the masses and they don't like it.

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David9694 [53 posts] 1 week ago
3 likes

I guess there is a bit of “cyclists are a darned menace to ‘proper road users’, here’s YET ANOTHER* incident to prove it” going on. But I think it is the sheer rarity* of incidents like this is mainly what makes them news - motor accidents are humdrum, every day non-news things that only get reported in exceptional circumstances e.g. in terms of what happened, how long the tailback /delay was, how may injuries and whether that bloke/woman off the telly (can’t quite remember what they were in) was involved. 

I’s the same for public transport - two freight wagons derail and it’s news, a bus or a plane skids, it’s news.

 

* as charted above

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Shades [415 posts] 1 week ago
1 like
Simon E wrote:

e-bikes, the biggest threat to road safety! Yeah, right.

Meanwhile every year 1,800 people die and 180,000 more are injured on the UK's roads. 99.7% of these are caused by people driving motorbikes, cars, vans and lorries.

The way cycle-related incidents are reported in the media suggests to me that there are influential people who feel threatened by the popularity of cycling and by e-bikes.

At my work the Safety/Risk team call this 'normalisation of deviance'; ie people just get used to a particular situation (which is bad practice, unsafe etc) so it doesn't get sorted out (cars, vans etc kill cyclists and pedestrians).  Bikes don't kill people (facts speak for themselves) so if someone suggests that an increase in e bikes will lead to more deaths, everyone 'runs round with their hair on fire'.

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brooksby [3513 posts] 1 week ago
2 likes
David9694 wrote:

I guess there is a bit of “cyclists are a darned menace to ‘proper road users’, here’s YET ANOTHER* incident to prove it” going on. But I think it is the sheer rarity* of incidents like this is mainly what makes them news - motor accidents are humdrum, every day non-news things that only get reported in exceptional circumstances e.g. in terms of what happened, how long the tailback /delay was, how may injuries and whether that bloke/woman off the telly (can’t quite remember what they were in) was involved. 

I’s the same for public transport - two freight wagons derail and it’s news, a bus or a plane skids, it’s news.

 

* as charted above

People seem to treat motor vehicle collisions (with or without associated KSI) as some sort of weather event, completely separate from the built environment or human control, and that trying to stop it would be like trying to stop the tide or "cloudy weather" or something.  Like you've said, unless it's something really spectacular, people seem to just shrug and ask whether or not it'll affect their commute home.

Added: Like that incident with the Sheppey Crossing in fog, a few years ago.  The media at the time spent ages blaming the terrible fog, and not blaming all those drivers who just happily headed into it at speed even though they couldn't see a bl00dy thing...

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vonhelmet [1085 posts] 1 week ago
1 like

People have come to terms with the risks of driving because the convenience is sufficient to make up for the relatively small chance of them being killed or injured. They accept that some people have to die so that they can drive.

You could calculate a ratio of, say, miles travelled per death. If I drive 3000 miles per year and somewhere 1500 people die, then that’s two miles per death. This is fine, apparently. If I cycle 5000 miles a year and somewhere 1 person dies, that’s 5000 miles per death. Incredible! But what about people who don’t cycle? People are dying for no reason! 0 miles per death! Totally unacceptable! On the one hand they can’t see past the end of their own nose, and on the other they don’t perceive that their sloppy driving might one day be part of the problem in a big way.

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Shades [415 posts] 1 week ago
1 like

Just been in Hamburg for a weekend; saw plenty of e bikes.  Interestingly most people on bikes were in normal clothes and not wearing helmets; didn't see any lycra or high-viz.  A 45 min journey on the Metro from the airport to the city cost 3 Euros!!!  The UK has it's priorities all wrong.  First thing I noticed coming back to Bristol Airport; loads of cars and lardy people.

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srchar [1002 posts] 1 week ago
2 likes
Shades wrote:

The UK has it's priorities all wrong.  First thing I noticed coming back to Bristol Airport; loads of cars and lardy people.

It's quite amazing when you think about it.  The country's health is going to pot, the roads are clogged with traffic, public transport is crap and expensive, and the air quality in cities is terrible.  If only there were an easy answer...