[ClubSmed]

My daughter has been happily cycling on her Islabike Beinn 20 (small) for the last few years but at the end of this year I think it may be time to move on. She loves the purple colour of her current bike but wants to move to a drop bar bike like Daddy and Islabike do not do the Luath in purple.

So as she is desperate for another purple bike (and I want her to love her bike) that would probably mean me having to respray the bike. That got me to thinking, if I am having to do that, then what is stopping me from buying an alternative cheaper second hand drop bar bike (Apollo Tempo / Procycle Tour can be had for £50-£90) and building it up with the better components that I already have.

It also enables me to let her ride the bike a little pre-upgrade to make sure she likes drop bars before committing.

So my question is, am I mad for considering taking this route? What are the disadvantages? Is there some alternative that I had not considered?

Topic

[peted76]

I think this is a facinating

I think this is a facinating project you’re doing. However I still think you’ll be far better off buying an Isla and getting it wrapped or sprayed. 

You could look at putting gears on a BMX? 

Weight of a Isla Bennin 20 is about 8kg, the 24 is 9kg by the way, it’s quite probable that you could do all of the fettling above and still end up with a bike which weighs more and rides worse than an off the shelf bike. 

[ClubSmed]

Simon E wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

I believe that the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels), and on the really cheap end of the spectrum, steel frames.

The 2 Apollo ‘alloy’ bikes we have in our household are really, really heavy. And it’s not all in the components; the 26″ wheels aren’t that heavy, they’re just poor quality.

I am following a thread where a guy is stripping back a “Carrera blast 24” to rebuild it with better/lighter kit. In it he says about the weight:

“Before I got out the tools I weighed it: the complete bike weighs 13.7kg, 5kg of that being the wheels.”

 

Once he stripped it he weighed the frame at 1.78kg with the headset which I did not think is that bad and should easily be able to build a sub 10kg kids bike from there.

 

When he investigated the wheels:

“2.5kg a wheel seemed rather excessive, removing the tyres and tubes (apparently made of a black flexible form of lead), rotors (looks and rusts like steel, but also a lead-iron alloy), and cassette (some rust but a serviceable 7 speed) bought the scales down to 0.9kg (front) and 1.1kg (rear).”

That was the basis of my assumption that “the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels)”

I have discounted the Apollo bike now, but because of the fork it has rather than concerns over weight

[ClubSmed]

kil0ran wrote:

How tall is she? Kinesis adult bikes go down to 45cm frames?

She is currently just 122cm tall but this build is going to be for her birthday in 10 months time so she should be around 127cm by then

[kil0ran]

How tall is she? Kinesis

How tall is she? Kinesis adult bikes go down to 45cm frames?

[ClubSmed]

Simon E wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

I believe that the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels), and on the really cheap end of the spectrum, steel frames.

The 2 Apollo ‘alloy’ bikes we have in our household are really, really heavy. And it’s not all in the components; the 26″ wheels aren’t that heavy, they’re just poor quality.

This sounds more like a project for you more than your daughter (though I’m not suggesting that’s a bad thing).

I have taken on board your points and now discounted the Apollo from my list of possible donors. Still on the list are:

Procycle 24 Tour (still searching for weight details so may be removed shortly)
Triban 3 Junior
Giovanissimi (Planet X kids frame now discontinued)

If I can get a messy one for silly money then maybe:

Formeula Road 24
Moda Minor
Cuda CP24R
Dawes 24 Academy CX
Luath 24

It may end up being a project more for me than my daughter, but at the moment I am hoping that she will get heavily involved and result in her being very invested in the end product and a passion for cycling to rival mine.

[Simon E]

ClubSmed wrote:

I believe that the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels), and on the really cheap end of the spectrum, steel frames.

The 2 Apollo ‘alloy’ bikes we have in our household are really, really heavy. And it’s not all in the components; the 26″ wheels aren’t that heavy, they’re just poor quality.

This sounds more like a project for you more than your daughter (though I’m not suggesting that’s a bad thing).

[alansmurphy]

Fail, mine was Henry Burton

Fail, mine was Henry Burton not HH.

 

She loves it, I love it, so much so they could chop my legs off:

 

https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/junior-road-bike/1275324864

[ClubSmed]

Drinfinity wrote:

If you go for a cheap kids frame as the heart of the build, the geometry is likely to be horrible. For example, Apollo bikes on a size claimed suitable for 7 – 9 year olds have 20” wheels. On the other hand, our very small 9 year old is midway through the range of a Luath 24. 

Apollo bikes claim that the 24″ is suitable for 8-11 year olds which would fit with what you say about your 9 year old being halfway through that size.

Drinfinity wrote:

A junk frame with a 105 group on it is still a junk bike.

Maybe, but the bike I keep at my parents (for quick blasts while visiting) is just a cheap Carrera tdf and I do get a lot of fun riding while I’m down there (and the hills are more challenging there).

Drinfinity wrote:

If you go for a Luath, you can still have the joy of stripping it right back (BB comes out really easily even on the one I replaced on a third hand Luath 26), polishing every part, putting on funky bar tape (leopard on ours), new cables in a matching colour, and of course the lush purple frame. 

Now you’ve got me thinking about it, I might strip and spray the 26 when it gets handed down…

If I get a bike that is already great I am less inclined to strip it down though.

Not an exact science but I have compared images (scaled to the same size) of the 24″ Islabike/Procycle/Apollo and measured the lines to compare geometry.

[peted76]

I think the ‘wrap idea’ is a

I think the ‘wrap idea’ is a good one.. you can get her involved in the ‘design of the wrap’ she could have anything her imagination desired.. and it’s 1) be cheaper than a respray 2) protect the paint for resale value 

 

[Drinfinity]

If you go for a cheap kids

If you go for a cheap kids frame as the heart of the build, the geometry is likely to be horrible. For example, Apollo bikes on a size claimed suitable for 7 – 9 year olds have 20” wheels. On the other hand, our very small 9 year old is midway through the range of a Luath 24. 

A junk frame with a 105 group on it is still a junk bike.

If you go for a Luath, you can still have the joy of stripping it right back (BB comes out really easily even on the one I replaced on a third hand Luath 26), polishing every part, putting on funky bar tape (leopard on ours), new cables in a matching colour, and of course the lush purple frame. 

Now you’ve got me thinking about it, I might strip and spray the 26 when it gets handed down…

 

[ClubSmed]

Simon E wrote:

If cheap bikes had the same geometry as Islabikes then the latter wouldn’t still be in business. In fact Isla may never have needed to start in the first place.

https://www.islabikes.co.uk/knowledge/why-islabikes/holistic-design/

Apollo bikes are stupidly heavy and have rubbish components. Even after you’ve sourced proper cranks, bars, grips and so on you’ll wonder why you bothered. You can’t polish a turd.

+1 to what Drinfinity said – either get one sprayed or just find a colour you find acceptable. She will grow to love it, kids adapt to change very well. If you don’t mind using Facebook then the PREOWNED ISLABIKES FOR SALE and Islabikes Community groups are worth joining.

You may be on to something with regards to the geometry on an Islabike vs Apollo/Procycle, I will try and do a little research as to the difference.

I believe that the majority of the weight on Apollo bikes are down to the cheap components (esp. wheels), and on the really cheap end of the spectrum, steel frames. I think I could shave a good amount off the weight and get close to Islabike weights (I have been following a thread doing something similar to a Carrera Blast kids mountain bike).

This is not about trying to get an Islabike equivalent cheap, as has been pointed out, it is probably going to cost more than just buying a 2nd hand Islabike. This is about quality parent/child time and creating a bike together that she is really invested in and can be really proud of.

 

[ClubSmed]

alansmurphy wrote:

How old is she?

 

I found an amazing Harry Hall (47cm I think) on Gumtree, almost sparkling new. Whilst looking on eBay etc there were the odd bargains, some in great condition, some not so. I was limited by a lack of driving and not knowing the exact size (she seemed a bit in between). Boardman do some good kids bikes and Halfords Wiggins are ok.

 

As for colours, there are wrap options too, or some good stickers for a white/chrome/black bike to add the purple magic!

 

She’s 7 and this would be a project for her 8th birthday in November.

Great shout on the wrap option, I’ll look into this

[kil0ran]

I’m going the self-build

I’m going the self-build route, from a Beinn 24 to a Giovanissimi frame (sold until recently by PlanetX). Lovely bright red frame, caliper brakes, hydroformed tubes, feels light.

My thinking is to start with him on flats and then eventually end up on drops, but at the rate he’s growing he’ll be on a 43cm/650 standard frame soon from someone like Kinesis.

Hoping to involve him in building it up, or at least get him to strip down the Islabike (its being cannibalised due to an unfortunate roof rack/car park barrier incident)

Just one thing to bear in mind – the Islabikes use mini-v brakes, if the replacement frame takes caliper brakes you’ll need to change the levers (looks like you’re going to do that anyway) as the pull is different. Not sure 105 levers will play nice with Mini-V’s so make sure the frame takes calipers.

I asked around the main kid’s bike manufacturers when I crushed the Islabike and none of them will sell you a frameset, which monumentally sucks from a recycling perspective. Islabikes will give you a discretionary discount on a replacement frame but you have to provide a purchase receipt for the original and evidence that you’ve destroyed the damaged frame.

Whilst it won’t solve the purple requirement, don’t discount Charge or Genesis or even Forme in your search, all make good bikes that rival the usual Islabikes/Frog options.

[Simon E]

If cheap bikes had the same

If cheap bikes had the same geometry as Islabikes then the latter wouldn’t still be in business. In fact Isla may never have needed to start in the first place.

https://www.islabikes.co.uk/knowledge/why-islabikes/holistic-design/

Apollo bikes are stupidly heavy and have rubbish components. Even after you’ve sourced proper cranks, bars, grips and so on you’ll wonder why you bothered. You can’t polish a turd.

+1 to what Drinfinity said – either get one sprayed or just find a colour you find acceptable. She will grow to love it, kids adapt to change very well. If you don’t mind using Facebook then the PREOWNED ISLABIKES FOR SALE and Islabikes Community groups are worth joining.

[Anonymous]

Why not ask Islabikes if they

Why not ask Islabikes if they’ll do one in purple for you? or a special run – there must be a lot of people who’d like a purple bike.

[Author]

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