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forum
Opinions? Divided so far on other sites
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
Latest Forum Topics
Latest Comments
- slappop 3 hours 14 min ago
Hopefully it'll still be allowed for recreational use.
- Bungle_52 4 hours 6 min ago
Well Gloucestershire are getting better. I'm being told whether or not action is to be taken, but not what action, within a few days of each report...
- belugabob 4 hours 54 min ago
Surely Lincolnshire is a prime location for UK cycle infrastructure - after all, it's flat, so should assuage the most common excuse that people...
- KDee 5 hours 6 min ago
Yes! 100% a Pace!
- Zazz53 6 hours 28 min ago
I did my first BC intro to coaching course last year and really enjoyed it. But I am not a member of a cycling club and ride with groups of like...
- DogOfOB 6 hours 33 min ago
Hmm - crashing off the side of a mountain at 48kmh sounds a lot safer than crashing off the side of a mountain at 55. Yeah....
- Surreyrider 6 hours 35 min ago
Churnalism nowadays - mostly clickbait stuff and regurgitation in the local rags/comics and beyond.
- DogOfOB 6 hours 48 min ago
I'm glad the barrier wasn't damaged. Whew, close one there! \s
- bensynnock 6 hours 57 min ago
I repurposed a bent rear derailleur hanger into a keyring. It's very useful, and you can use it to open bottles of beer.
- Secret_squirrel 7 hours 11 min ago
My bum hates Flites. Worse saddle ever for me.
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34 comments
"So who is actually ‘to blame’ here?
It’s not the individuals – it’s the system. A system that thinks it’s acceptable to mix human beings and enormous vehicles with very limited visibility, and hopes that nobody makes a minor mistake. There simply isn’t any excuse for designing roads that create situations like the one in the photograph above. Those people should be separated from that HGV entirely at this kind of junction."
https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2017/07/06/who-is-to-blame/
In one way, I'm glad that it was a left turn lane - imagine the outrage if it wasn't and the cyclists demanded that their piece of turf was recognised by the poor truck driver.
The fact that these guys probably use this route every day suggests that group think has infected their brain cells and they believe themselves to be omnipotent beings for whom common sense, pinch points and rather large articulated lorries with known blind spots no longer apply.
No wonder we lose sympathy every time one of us suffers a car related accident if this is the way we are seen to behave
I've seen this on another forum and everyone there said it was the cyclists fault.
I would like to know who thinks it was the drivers fault and what he could possibly have done to avoid hitting a cyclist he can't even see ?
don simon in the main thread - http://road.cc/content/news/225630-video-truck-driver-loses-it-cyclist-after-collision-london - is vocal for the driver being at fault; I won't try and summarise his views.
My view is that these are all regular commuters and know that junction; he was just too slow off the mark and remained in the blind spot. Play stupid games; win stupid prizes.
I couldn't blame the trucker with what happened. I personally wouldn't go up the inside of a big open wheel vehicle. I don't like to be followed either by such vehicles, so would either get another vehicle(car) between me and the truck or pull off to let truck pass.
What piss-poor riding by just about everyone in that video!
It seems that my policy of only ever overtaking on the outside, like normal traffic - as that is what I want to be treated like - is something of a rarity. The chance of being doored, a pedestrian stepping out from between stationary vehicles and cars just swinging in as they are looking for traffic to pass on the outside is just too high when undertaking.
Saying that the infrastructure is to blame is naive, if there is cycling infrastructure then use it, but if there isn't then the normal rules of the road apply, we can't just make it up as we go along and then be outraged when we find ourselves in danger.
The poor truck driver had no chance and clearly shit himself when he realised what happened.
I'd have overtaken the line of traffic up to the last vehicle, then sat behind it until the lights changed, then gone past it if it moved slowly or drafted it if it was going quickly, but to undertake a line of traffic, sit in a left only lane with a pinch point in front, alongside an HGV, then trundle along at the same speed as the truck in it's blind-spot and be surprised when you find yourself in a sticky situation is ridiculous at best.
You shouldn't/can't assume there's an ASL, just because there "might" be one ahead.
If you cycled through that left-hand lane assuming there would be an ASL, and then found there wasn't one, then you're an idiot if you try and race ahead of the lorry, because he has right of way and you don't (from the left-turn lane). So you should be giving the lorry enough space to go past (knowing he doesn't have the best visibility downwards to his left) and then trying to safely merge behind him. And then you should be making a mental note *not* to always assume there's going to be an ASL.
Idiots.
There's no question about who is in the wrong there, all in a left turn only lane.
Maybe they thought there was a bike box up ahead, hence the filter. But even then, they should have been aware of the massive HGV and not cycled alongside to a pinch point.
That could have easily ended up with a serious outcome due to the stupidity of some people.
I have a general rule of thumb when cycling.
Stay well away from wheels that are as tall or bigger than me. 37 years old and still alive so it must be working.
Agree with all that has gone before. Hard to see how opinions could be divided elsewhere. Left turn only lane is the key point. If you start off in the wrong lane, out of sight of the lorry driver, what on earth do expect if you attempt to switch lanes into the killing zone. Helmet-cam guy's riding is even worse- the guy who was hit at least had a chance of squirting out in front- helmet-cam guy has just nowhere to go.
Someone noted the female on the left slowing down, but even she is putting herself in real danger by starting off in the wrong lane because she is going to have to filter back into the fast moving traffic.
Yes we can criticise the infrastructure, but we need to play the hand we have been dealt. If that means sitting back behind the lorry and getting there 5 mins later, so be it. We're very quick to criticise drivers for impatient passes etc that save them no real time. Need to look in the mirror perhaps?
(Ultimately, quite a tidy piece of bikehandling to stay upright- could well have been under the wheels.)
If you want to do that, you do it at your own risk, you would need to be sure that you get far enough in front of that lorry that the driver can see you.
....or this is what happens, dont follow the lemmings.
Hope there were no injuries, but also hope it was expensive for you.
100% agree, poor cycling all round; however infrastructure is crap, there should be an ASL.
Holy Batshit. We've found a topic we all agree on.
Now
Thank God he was wearing a helmet, or this could have been much worse
Was this a gaggle of idiots, a flock, a herd? What is the collective for cyclists behaving like twats?
A bunch of muppets?
A 'statistic' (this guy almost was anyway)
Aside from all the "its the cyclists fault / its the HGV drivers fault", the real direction to point the blame is the terrible infrastructure.
No ASL where most junctions now have them so those cyclists had an expectancy of one being there.
Because of ASLs, cyclists are 'trained' to ride up the inside of traffic to get to the head of the junction
The junction quickly filters down from the 2 right hand lanes to 1 (very wide lane) after so you have traffic being squeezed any way.
Because of how that junction is laid out (and a few others along that section of the embankment are also) you can guarantee that this incident has occurred more than once already, its just that with the recent proliferation of cheaper cameras that this is the first time its been shared, or possibly even captured.
Don't blame the infrastructure. These guys need to live in the real world where there are pinch points. As can be seen from all the comments above it was obvious what would happen. And being crushed by a lorry but thinking you were in the right because you thought the junction should have been designed differently seems a poor trade off.
I'm all for getting cars and lorries off the road but until that happens we need to use of common sense!
Where did I say in my comment anywhere about "getting cars and lorries off the roads". I would never make such a comment because to suggest such a thing is daft and based in fantasy.
The infrastructure is poorly designed for the exact reasons I stated. Cyclists are conditioned to go up the inside of traffic at junctions. Those junctions along the Chelsea embankment are notorious and the infra does nothing to reduce or even minimise conflict between modes. If anything, it creates conflict due ot the aim that TfL has had for all time of increasing traffic flow.
Sure, you can sit here and blame the cyclists for placing themselves in that position but thats just "blaming the player, not the game", is short-sighted and does nothing to rectify the situation. You can sit in your armchair, or even go to that junction every morning for a week and shout at cyclists for placing themselves there but go back the next week and it wil still be happening.
The only thing that will change behaviours at that, and other junctions, is redesigning the infra.
That isn't changing behaviours, it's changing the environment to suit the poor decision making of some cyclists.
So? If changing the environment can help keep people safe even if they make mistakes surely that's a good thing.
It sure is. I was just objecting to zanf's dodgy logic.
So you agree with the person who has just agreed with what Ive said, and you think I have 'dodgy logic'?
Youre either purposely being a shitgibbon or you're genuinely a fucking idiot.
That's exactly how they design cars, and motorways: so there's protection from mistakes. It's how cycle infrastructure should be designed. Mistakes should not result in deaths on the roads.
That said, appalling bit of cycling. If you've got in that position by accident, for goodness sake wait and merge back in when it's safe.
+1
Also, if this the rush hour for commuters/school run why on earth is an HGV allowed to be there? Yeah, I know, that's life in London yadda yadda - but there are new riders coming onto the streets every day, and some of us think it some of these should be cycling to school on these roads. They need protection. Or should they learn the hard way? Or should they not be allowed on the road until they have been proved to have a) a Bikeabilty intructor's competence? and b) the Knowledge. Seems to be what most people think given the low levels of cycling outside the 20-50 age group.
/rant
Given the number of cyclists, I suspect that was commuting time and most of them know the junction well, including that there isn't an ASL. They probably do this every day - but just don't experience many such large HGVs there.
And as noted by others, you shouldn't just expect there will be an ASL. You should take sensible decisions based on the facts you have, not your hopes and expectations.
Utterly ridiculous piece of cycling, it's a left turn only lane and the road markings really could not be any clearer.
Cyclists are road users and need to follow the rules or the consequence is exactly the kind of situation shown. You can blame the road design, the truck design, lack of cycling infrastructure or even wearing a plastic hat causing a brain malfunction and feelings of invulnerability but how in heck is it fair to expect the truck driver to not only be aware of the cyclists who have put themselves into a dangerous road position, but to also count the stupid bastards so he can track the whereabouts of all of them. It is possible to mitigate a lot of the hazards we face as vulnerable road users by use of technology; cameras, sensors, autonomous vehicles etc, but ultimately there is no sure fire cure for basic stupidity.
This video should be mandatory viewing for all cyclists and anyone who does not get just how profoundly in the wrong the cyclist is should make the time and effort to get a ride out with an HGV driver.
+1
There is a group of cyclists piling up in the left-turn lane, and at least some of them are going straight on. Presumably more arrived behind the helmetcammer, and the lorry driver can't see them all.
So, taking this to its absurd conclusion (maybe its logical conclusion in London traffic)...
The lorry driver effectively has to give way to all cyclists in the wrong lane that are going straight on because 'everybody does it' and he might endanger them???
Mental.
Another in agreement, here. Looks like that whole group of cyclists were suffering from a serious case of "must get in front" - you know, the condition we all regularly experience from motorists and (rightly!) criticise them for. This just shows it's jumped the species barrier.
Absolutely. If I had been in that situaton I would have approached from the back of the truck, looked down the side, seen there's no room and waited behind the truck.
Agree with everyone else here. No way the lorry driver was going to be able to see the guys to his left. Why anyone thinks that they will win an arguement with a lorry is beyond me.
People seem to be obsessed with right of way. (I know they didn't necessaily have it in this case.) In sailing there is a better set of rules. There is a "Stand On" boat, and a "Stay Clear" boat. The Stand On boat behaves as if it has right of way but also isn't allowed to make sudden changes so that the other boat can predict its path, and the Stay Clear keeps out of the way. But the primary rule is that you aren't allowed to hit the other boat. So even if the Stand On boat thinks it has right of way it has to give it up if a collision would occur. These guys need to think like that. Even if they thought they had right of way it was pretty obvious there was going to be a collision. So they should have stayed clear.
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