[ianrobo]

Been reading a lot about the MAF method and phil maffetone over the weekend and eharing podcasts with him.

It seems a very good way to build a strong aerobic base and asked my coach about it as well. Basically the point is to keep your HR within your aerobic zone even if that means going slow and for runners even walking.

Has anyone else tried this and their thoughts on it ?

The method also includes dietary advice etc but that I am doing anyway.

Topic

[Simon E]

madcarew wrote:

madcarew wrote:

There is nothing at all special about Maffetone or his program. It has been used for many years by endurance athletes.

Was tempted to say the same thing in my earlier post.

Main note is ignore his 180 – age rule. It has no basis in science or physiology and in no way reliably approximates anyone’s Maximum aerobic function.

Thanks. I was dubious at this one and it prompted me to question the validity of the whole thing.

In the end everyone can do some research, chew over the options and decide what they feel may suit them best. Exactly what you do is less important than ensuring that you do something.

[madcarew]

I was having a discussion on

I was having a discussion on another forum about this the other day and I spent a couple hours crawling all over Maffetone’s website and blog. There is nothing at all special about Maffetone or his program. It has been used for many years by endurance athletes. I have coached people for 12 years and it is pretty much phase 1 when starting on endurance training. I’m doing it myself now in preparation for a mountain marathon in  a couple months.

Main note is ignore his 180 – age rule. It has no basis in science or physiology and in no way reliably approximates anyone’s Maximum aerobic function. upper end of aerobic function as recognised by most international coaches / physiologists is between 68 – 70% of HRR . If your max 185, resting 45, then your MAF is in the region of 140×68%+45 = 140 +/- 5 BPM. If you are undergoing a lactate thest, MAF is generally recognised as being the heart rate  at the lactate titre in the region of 2.5mM.

His test is valid, but should be done with a close eye on the temperature. HR at 25 deg C is generally 3-5% higher than at 10 deg C for the same effort.

The most effective way to get the bang for your buck on this is to do a volume block. 6-10 days of as many hours per day as you can fit in (3-5) followed by 2 weeks rest (i.e. shorter, more intense rides 3 x per week) and repeat. Otherwise any rides over 2 hrs do as per MAF, but really the best gains are made by repeatedly stressing the system close together. 

Pros do it for up to 6 weeks, it’s the dreaded 6 hr rides you hear about. Technically you do it until you stop continuing to see a reduction in your time. Then you’ve reached maximum aerobic efficiency. Multi season pros only do it for 10 – 14 days as they’re already operating at or close to MAE.

[ianrobo]

Simon E wrote:

Perhaps MAF works very well but it’s not the only game in town nowadays and most people seem to be time-crunched these days so 4 hours in zone 2 isn’t always practical or desirable. 2 to 3 hours Z2 with some 20 – 30 min sweetspot intervals may elicit greater gain. 2 hours is a long time to be on the turbo.

Also, it seems anyone over about 35 / 40 years of age should consider doing higher intensity stuff through the off-season to hold off the inevitable decline in VO2 due to ageing. These might be of interest:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/toolbox/toolbox-off-season-masters-training/

http://cyclingcommentary.typepad.com/cycling_commentary/2010/12/how-to-improve-cycling-performance-developing-aerobic-capacity-.html

What has your coach suggested you do?

As stated I am doing a mixture of some longer endurance and then some sweet spot type work on between 8-12 hours a week. This is mainly as you say done in Z2 but my average for these rides is always in Z3 for many hours. The base is there I am sure of it but the MAF method is strict you simply dont go above in your HR zone.

[Simon E]

Perhaps MAF works very well

Perhaps MAF works very well but it’s not the only game in town nowadays and most people seem to be time-crunched these days so 4 hours in zone 2 isn’t always practical or desirable. 2 to 3 hours Z2 with some 20 – 30 min sweetspot intervals may elicit greater gain. 2 hours is a long time to be on the turbo.

Also, it seems anyone over about 35 / 40 years of age should consider doing higher intensity stuff through the off-season to hold off the inevitable decline in VO2 due to ageing. These might be of interest:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/toolbox/toolbox-off-season-masters-training/

http://cyclingcommentary.typepad.com/cycling_commentary/2010/12/how-to-improve-cycling-performance-developing-aerobic-capacity-.html

What has your coach suggested you do?

[CXR94Di2]

Its a long proven method of

Its a long proven method of building a great base before building power.  Most seasoned riders will do 3,4,5,6 hour rides in Zone 2 and stay in that zone.  After several months of doing these long steady rides the body aerobically and muscles adapt to become very efficient.  

 

Time crunched method is to do sweetspot training, which has most of the benefits of zone 2 training.  The base just isnt as wide as zone 2, but pretty good for most cyclists.  I’m doing sweetspot base work on trainerroad.

[Author]

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