Support road.cc

Like this site? Help us to make it better.

forum
road.cc bike forum

Guidance for drivers as well as cyclists for using the roads safely?

by cyclistfanuk
Mon, Oct 10, 2016 15:51
10

Hi everyone,

First post here after reading other posts for a couple of weeks! I’ve gotten into cycling in a big way and have just invested in a new road bike to get out and about on. As a responsible cyclist I’ve tried to read up on as many safety guides as I can. This includes from the likes of Rospa and Sustrans, as well as a whole load of guides from commercial cycling companies.

I think I’m fairly prepared, have all my reflective and high-vis kit etc. Although the whole process got me thinking about how safe a driver I actually am around cyclists. There’s actually a surprising lack of good information for how the two should share the road together.

Most guides focus on one or the other side. After digging deep into Google I did find this which attempts to look at both sides http://www.intelligentcarleasing.com/road-safety-cyclists-motorists, but it still seems to side more to advice for cyclists (even though it's from a car focused company).

Am I overthinking it? Should the advice for drivers basically be as below?

  1. Always check your mirrors and blind spots for cyclists as well as cars.
  2. Take extra care to look out for cyclists at junctions.
  3. Take extra care to look out for cyclists when driving at night.

Any thoughts much appreciated!

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

Add new comment

10 comments

Avatar
pete_247 | 8 years ago
0 likes

I'm with GRIFOO500

After all:"His way was right, his will was strong, but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong".   That is not to imply that cyclists killed and injured were at fault but just a reminder that unfortunately vigilance is always required because the best of us have momentary lapses of concentration, our perceptual systems react to input, not lack of input.  I had a road engineer from the council out to my house once, trying to convince him that the road layout encouraged people to go too fast round a blind bend. He said people slow down when they cannot see.   I said not if they don't know they can't see. His fall back was the  alterations would be too expensive. 

Avatar
felixcat | 8 years ago
0 likes

I would like to put more emphasis on a few aspects of driving, including the obvious, obey the Highway Code, obey speed limits, and be prepared to wait for a safe moment to overtake a cyclist.

I think that Highway Code paragraph 126 is one of the most ignored, and this causes the deaths of many cyclists.

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear. You should

leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops. The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance (see Typical Stopping Distances diagram, shown below)
 

This means, don't drive into a piece of road unless you can see that it is positively clear. Not, its OK to drive there if you can't see anything there.

And don't drive so close to the vehicle in front. This is a very common fault.

 

Avatar
Yorkshire wallet | 8 years ago
2 likes

TBH, my take on driving/motorbike riding/cycling is simply trust no one. Expect the worst and if need be back out of situations you can read coming even if it's clearly not your fault and the right of way is yours.

Never put the onus to do the right thing on the other person and you'll survive. Also assume that every other cyclist is also stupid, held hostage to rubbish road conditions or sidewinds and will do random things and give them some room. I really don't think most car drivers understand the edge of the road of is a crap place to be, not some great, smooth bike lane.

Avatar
Griff500 replied to Yorkshire wallet | 8 years ago
0 likes

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

TBH, my take on driving/motorbike riding/cycling is simply trust no one. Expect the worst and if need be back out of situations you can read coming even if it's clearly not your fault and the right of way is yours.

Never put the onus to do the right thing on the other person and you'll survive. Also assume that every other cyclist is also stupid, held hostage to rubbish road conditions or sidewinds and will do random things and give them some room. I really don't think most car drivers understand the edge of the road of is a crap place to be, not some great, smooth bike lane.

Most sensible post I've seen in a long time  on the whole car/cyclist debate.  We have stupid cyclists as well as stupid car drivers. I have read so much crap about "why should I do "x" when it's all the driver's fault..".  As a cyclist, you will always come off worst so discretion is the sensible course. 

As for the suggestion that as drivers we should take an extra look in the mirror in case a cyclist is there? That's bull, you can't pidgeonhole roadusers. A good driver doesn't need to think specifically in case there is a car/motor bike/bike/recumbent/invalid trike/dog/horse/pushchair, the road is either clear, or its not, and roadusers form a complete spectrum of size and speed, not discrete types.

 

Avatar
davel replied to Griff500 | 8 years ago
0 likes
Griff500 wrote:

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

TBH, my take on driving/motorbike riding/cycling is simply trust no one. Expect the worst and if need be back out of situations you can read coming even if it's clearly not your fault and the right of way is yours.

Never put the onus to do the right thing on the other person and you'll survive. Also assume that every other cyclist is also stupid, held hostage to rubbish road conditions or sidewinds and will do random things and give them some room. I really don't think most car drivers understand the edge of the road of is a crap place to be, not some great, smooth bike lane.

Most sensible post I've seen in a long time  on the whole car/cyclist debate.  We have stupid cyclists as well as stupid car drivers. I have read so much crap about "why should I do "x" when it's all the driver's fault..".  As a cyclist, you will always come off worst so discretion is the sensible course. 

As for the suggestion that as drivers we should take an extra look in the mirror in case a cyclist is there? That's bull, you can't pidgeonhole roadusers. A good driver doesn't need to think specifically in case there is a car/motor bike/bike/recumbent/invalid trike/dog/horse/pushchair, the road is either clear, or its not, and roadusers form a complete spectrum of size and speed, not discrete types.

 

I agree with the gist of your post but I think you've misconstrued the emphasis of much of the recent argument against your points.

Underneath the 'why should I do x?' argument, is a more strategic message. Yes, tactically, we all duck out of danger on our commutes and Sunday rides. But this is the message: if we all rode defensively, and hung back, and gave into 'might is right', every time we could; if we all rode perfectly and were never at fault, 100% of the time: cyclists will still die.

By all means, protect yourself. Back down once in a while. Preach to the converted - experienced cyclists who already know that they won't win every encounter, no matter how right they are. I have never seen anyone on here say that you should always go with your right of way, no matter what. We all back down. If that's the argument you're having, nobody is against you. Pick that battle and win it. Yay.

Until drivers in heavy vehicles are held to account and higher standards, people on bikes will die in unacceptable numbers. Not because their cycling was less than perfect. Not because they did something stupid. Not because they weren't wearing hi-vis or lit up like Blackpool or wearing a helmet. But because shit driving, and its consequences, are accepted way too much in our society.

That's the battle I want to fight.

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... replied to Yorkshire wallet | 8 years ago
2 likes
Yorkshire wallet wrote:

Never put the onus to do the right thing on the other person and you'll survive.

This isn't really true, though, is it?

Or are you saying every cyclist who has been killed in a collision was a foolish onus-putter?

Unless you interpret 'do the right thing' so narrowly that the only way to avoid putting the 'onus' on others is to never go outside, yet alone ride a bike.

Avatar
psling | 8 years ago
1 like

"Am I overthinking it?"

# Take extra care to look out for cyclists and share the road with respect and consideration.

That's it really.

[I did see a pig fly once but that was at a Pink Floyd concert] 

Avatar
hawkinspeter | 8 years ago
1 like

Overtaking a cyclist needs some consideration. Don't overtake if you're immediately turning left. Don't overtake if the road narrows (e.g. A central reservation). Also, indicate ahead of time - especially if you're waiting at traffic lights.

Avatar
CygnusX1 replied to hawkinspeter | 8 years ago
3 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

Don't overtake if you're immediately turning left.

Reworked as the DfT campaign that they should have gone with:

THINK! Don't get caught catch a cyclist between a your lorry and a left turn.

HANG BACK.

Avatar
brooksby | 8 years ago
3 likes

1. Don't kill or injure  anyone. 2. Don't get killed or injured. 3. Obey the law.

Latest Comments