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RANT ALERT - Getting fed up..
I'm getting sick and tired of every reasonable debate seemingly turning into some sort of misogynistic parry of "oh, I was going to reply with something interesting but I've just realised you're that bird who likes to stick up for equal prize money - so I'm basically going to treat you with utter disdain because obviously, despite the fact that you ride for a successful women's domestic team and train for 16 hours a week and work in a highly technical role, your opinion on anything is definitely worth less than half of anything a male counterpart could come up with".
I don't mind putting up with the fact that there are a LOT of armchair pros on these forums (sorry, but we all know this is true) because it's the internet and people like to feel important. However, it seems like every 4 out of 5 in-depth threads seemingly get turned on their head by someone making the above assumption.
If one more idiot calls me "babe", "love", "sweetheart" or simply winks at my responses I will hunt them down like the rabid rats that they are.
There aren't many women on this forum, but of the ones that do use it frequently - they are knowledgeable, experienced and well known riders, and we shouldn't really have to put up with this. If it were once or twice then fine but it seems to be increasing exponentially at the moment and it's genuinely making use of this website unpleasant.
Rant over.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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64 comments
LOL, oh look, another fan club member has turned up : )
Is that all you have "internet warrior"?
Yes, I've noticed her groupies too. They don't seem to have their own opinion most of the time.
What on earth are you talking about ? I am a groupie am I... and what, pray, do you base that on ? As for opinion, I probably have too much of that, including those contrary to you in the past Colin, and get pulled up on it when deserved - so at least in my case, please don't start throwing insults about based on fantasy.
You've dished your crap out on me because I don't hold your opinion on drug use, and I've just seen you do it to some guy because he disagreed with your opinion on aero dynamics. You seem to think that as a 'pro' women's rider that does make your responses gospel, but it is clear that you are not an expert and know no better (usually less so) than many others. There are some people on here who do know what they are talking about, but I can't say you're one of them.
Excuse me firstly I've simply returned to you the "crap" you've already dished.
I'm not 'pro' at all, not sure where you've got that from.
I couldn't care less if people disagree with me in fact I enjoy a good debate but when people use personal insults to get further in an argument, and use sexist and abusive language simply to make themselves feel bigger then quite frankly I find that offensive.
Also, I have to call pot kettle here Colin, you're the one that insulted not just I when we disagreed with you regarding doping.
I don't deny insulting you, but not based on gender. I'm not saying that it is OK to demean someone based on their sex. But you do have a very confrontational style about your posts and I feel like you were attacking me and not my opinions. I'm sure others feel the same.
It's interesting that you say that you are not a pro, because in our argument you seemed to be suggesting you had the inside line on it, coupled with your connection to a team you race with on the blog you so proudly display on your profile. You drop names and connections at the drop of a hat and back all your statements up by the connections.
If I return to the doping situation you basically put me down because 'you knew better' than me and kept putting words into my mouth. I have no affiliation to Sky or any other team, but what I do have is a layman's interest in doping. I read up around the subject and have tried to understand how this affects not only cycling but other sports. It is everywhere and it is a problem which Sports bodies cannot hope to deal with. As soon as they find a test, or legislate against one process, the dopers find another way. My interest stems more from how Armstrong was able to cheat his way to success, but I have realised that the tests are fundamentally flawed. Horner's success last year should prove to you that doping is still rife, just usually not done as blatantly and I would imagine in some cases it is done so riders can stay riding and not specifically aimed at cheating. But don't tell me that doping doesn't go on, because this is not the experience of the WADA.
You have the inside track on this based on...what? Where's the proof?
Not saying it isn't possible/probable, but you do sound like a conspiracy theorist some of the time.
I don't think i've seen a single post in reply to you that has said that doping doesn't go on - what I have seen is that some people maintain that it is not the vast majority of riders doing so, that some teams are actually trying to ensure their riders aren't doing so and that success is not necessarily a positive indicator of it either - a position you often seem at odds with.
Colin I never once said you've insulted me based on gender. If my posts ever seem confrontational it's probably for a reason, as most of the time I try to keep them neutral and informative. If you disagree with things I have to say then that's fine, this is where debate takes place, it shouldn't be a problem - until personal insults start being thrown around.
Many friends of mine are professional, I'm friends with coaches of professionals, it sort of comes with the territory of being part of a community such as the racing one, so there's your inside line. I ride for a domestic team, we aren't paid for this, we're sponsored, but we we have to work/study we have to fund this ourselves. I back up my statements because for some reason those statements are never taken seriously, there's nothing wrong with citation if it's required. There's also nothing wrong with being proud of being part of a team, or blogging about it!
On the doping conversation, if I recall it was you who initially put me down based on your disagreement of my stance on it.
I don't disagree doping goes on but as others have said some of us have different opinions on the matter.
This threads about the apparent issue with sexism from some site users, something I don't think you have played a part in - while you do like to argue about doping, granted, I don't think your attitude comes across in any way sexist. So it's honestly fine, carry on, even carry on with the personal insults if you like. I honestly couldn't give a monkeys about Horner either, sorry.
You do really seem to want me to hunt you down, though! Sorry love you're not my type.
No, Northstar you're not, you're just an out and out idiot.
Exactly how am I full of bullshit?
And exactly how do I dish it but not take it?
I beg to differ, you are so full of bullshit it's beyond "laughable"
*wonders if i am a "perpetrator"*, so how are you going to "hunt me down"?
You seem to be one of those people who likes to "dish it out" but can't "take it", in other words, a complete hypocrite it seems.
I maybe wrong and no doubt people will tell me so but i think mooleur put the bit in about racing etc to let people know she does know a thing or two about bikes and racing and is not just making wild sweeping statements with no prior knowledge, which to be honest happens quite regularly on this forum.
If anyone is sad enough to pick faults purely because the poster is female then they can crawl back under the stone they came from.
I agree gender should be irrelevant
I understand she races as I'm one of a number of people who actually look at sigs I've read her blog about some race or other where she stopped to help a rider who had an off.
However I still hold to my original statement that having to write it in the rant adds nothing to her argument about how women are treated in my eyes
Thank you, I can absolutely understand where you're coming from however unfortunately while that doesn't make a difference in your eyes I do feel that for some it does.
Yep nail on the head there, it's just an example, I could equally say I ride sportives every weekend or work in a bike shop (if I did...I don't do either tbh) if it serves to get the point across that it is definitely relevant, though it's not surprising the comments on racing have been taken the wrong way!
To the other - it has everything to do with racing, riding, etc because it's absolutely clear that if I were faced with a debate if I were a male who rides 4 hours a week on his own I would gain more respect for my answers in some people's minds than if I were riding for Boels in support of Artmitstead. The attitude, as some have so well proven, remains to be the "yeah, alright love" one, which is what my post is about. If I have to make it clear that actually, I do have a bit of an idea about what I'm talking about, then so be it!
I honestly couldn't give a monkeys if no one on roadcc knows who I am, what I ride or who I ride for but when they find out and alter their behaviour towards me because of this it's quite simply an insult to logic.
I didn't say I don't like using this website, I use it every day, I interact probably a lot more than some, so why the hell should I have to put up with the sort of comments that get thrown around in respect of my gender? I'm sorry but "if you don't like it don't use it" is a pathetic response, something I'd expect if I tried to join the Masons, not use a fucking cycling forum.
Like I've said banters banter and we all get a bit feisty on touchy subjects but personal insults and berrating people for who they are is NOT cool - and Chiv as I've said to you before in the past you are basing your opinions on my attitudes on a few one off posts which were followed with pretty fierce comments between myself and one of these perpetrators. I'm outspoken but I'm not downright nasty to people!
I am and tbh thats all i can base it on being as i dont actually know you.
However im sure you realised that my use of Love etc was simply tongue in cheek rather than the need to use them in a patronising manner as some people have taken them.
As for outspoken well i can respect that but the need to swear on a public forum or resort to name calling in an online argument often undermines any respect a poster can gain for just stating facts and keeping calm.
Anyway as ive said Gender should be irrelevant when it comes to sport and sporting forums as im sure there are very real bigoted views from both sides as opposed to the trolling i was doing which although a little childish on my part was simply a bit of fun.
on a final note i wouldnt take me too seriously if i am being trollish however if im not then you can pretty much assume my argument is a serious poitn im trying to make
I know it was tongue in cheek, actually despite the post I suppose was a bit funny. If you hadn't have posted like that, someone else would have!
I try not to swear too much but I'll be the first to apologise where I have, sometimes it feels necessary. I genuinely don't mean to offend 95% of the time.
Appreciate your comments tbh, a firm handshake would be in order if we were at the pub.
+1 - well, put Stumps, no need to say more.
And another.
Get your wallet out : )
it doesn't take much to get a biter on here does it? *laughs*
Oh Christ, I thought the primary schools had gone back already....
*laughing* Here's another admirer or fan club member of mine it seems...
*laughing at the irony of your post*
Given the way that recent threads have gone, I knew as soon as I saw RANT ALERT in the sidebar, whose post it was going to be! I don't blame you either.
Oh, and don't bother feeding the troll, above. I'd pay good money to see Northstar (EDIT: and Chiv - god what a childish post) be so brave in person.
I have no issue telling people exactly what i think whether it on the internet or offline .... yes my post was trollish buit also had a point if you read through it.....
ie
its irrelevant whether someone rides for a team or not this rant was about how she was being treated on a forum , there was no need to bring her racing into it. The complaint was about a gender issue not a racing issue
also the calling of love babe etc was intending to provoke a reaction because some of her previous posts have been childish retorts to certain people within the forum as such a response that gave her exactly what she has given others was in my eyes only fair and at the same time a bit tongue in cheek ...
but hey if you take everything you read on the internet as gospel you go ahead and get that shiny armour on and ride in on your white charger to "defend her honour"
Alright love calm down there was no need for this paragraph at all
"despite the fact that you ride for a successful women's domestic team and train for 16 hours a week and work in a highly technical role"
alot of people dont give a monkeys and perhaps this is why you get the comments you do , if you wish to race and ride great but tbh we dont care sweetheart.
On another note if you dont like using the website then dont , its like every other internet page or forum people make a choice if you choose to read something and you dont like it time and again then why come back?
in regards to the equal prize money (and this may cheer you up a bit) most people who ride/race/generally enjoy cycling and follow it believe that prize money should be equal or near enough equal as makes no difference.....
Anyway babe , lets turn that frown upside down
Anyway, onto more serious business - should cycle helmets be compulsory for women?
(Just joking)
Kind comments! And so true. Thankfully these sorts of attitudes are few and far between, for the most part I think the community on roadcc is brilliant and engaging.
Hopefully these people will "get the hint" and either change their attitudes or keep that sort of thing to themselves, it really doesn't present a welcoming environment for any newbies, especially as a lot of those newcomers to the boards could well be female now that it's on the up here.
I was very sorry to read this and hope that it strikes a nerve where appropriate, such that gender should not be a factor in discussion . Noting that female participation in cycling is growing exponentially, it would be a shame if this forum resembled a Victorian (gentle?) man's club and did not reflect the populace who enjoy road biking. It is great to see now females out on club group rides - a reflection of acknowledged expertise, enthusiasm and inclusion (even if they do leave me behind on some of the big hills!
I don't even consider whether someone is male or female when reading a comment, that is irrelevant to the information provided to me. People with sexist tendencies like that in the 21st century need to wake up. Good rant btw, I felt fired up too after reading it. Sort it out fellas.
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