Ex-Aston Martin CEO claims 20mph speed limits mean drivers are “swarmed by bicycles overtaking from all angles raising the risk of collision”; Wholesome content as Luke Rowe’s son does team car TT radio messages + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Wholesome content as Luke Rowe's son does team car TT radio messages
Luke Rowe’s son supporting his dad during a Time Trial is the most wholesome thing you will see this year. pic.twitter.com/ISrgiwVUCv
— Cycling out of context (@OutOfCycling) July 25, 2023
“FULL GAS NOW, ALL THE WAY TO THE LINE… COME ON, PUSH IT, UP, UP, UP… WE’VE GOT TRAINS AND DINOSAURS TO PLAY WITH…”
Why does nobody make SD work?
Another Tour de France Femmes stage yesterday, another SD Worx victory, the dominant team in women’s cycling taking their second stage of this year’s race, adding to their 2023 collection that includes… *deep breath*… Strade Bianche, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Flanders, Gent Wevelgem, Amstel Gold, Flèche Wallonne, Liège–Bastogne–Liège, Tour de Suisse, Itzulia and Vuelta a Burgos. The question on many people’s lips this morning is why don’t the other teams make SD Worx work?
When I was young I would never put my dishes in the dishwasher. Mum would do it & then tell me I should do it. But she did it so I didn’t. One day she stopped & I had no clean dishes. So I started loading the dishwasher. In conclusion, the peloton should let SD Worx chase.
— Chloe Hosking (@chloe_hosking) July 25, 2023
Yesterday it was DSM who did the chasing, SD Worx sitting back, saving their legs, before winning the sprint with Lorena Wiebes. Puzzling, to say the least…
Anyway, that should be less of an issue today with no chance of a bunch sprint, and potentially even a GC day with the first look at Demi Vollering vs Annemiek van Vleuten…
3D-printed Superstrata bike manufacturing halts amid customer complaints
> 3D-printed Superstrata bike manufacturing halts amid customer complaints
The return of Schrödinger's cyclist — reaction time...
Some of your early thoughts on Dr Palmer’s 20mph comments…
pockstone: “…’swarmed by ‘ something.something ‘overtaking from all angles, raising the risk of collision.’ Glad I’ve never experienced such a thing whilst riding in traffic.”
Car Delenda Est: “And I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn’t been for those meddling speed cameras!”
Carior: “Ah Schrodingers cyclist — both slowing down traffic and zooming past in excess of 20mph.
“Also — not being funny but whenever I am in central London on strike days, the speed limit is not the thing slowing cars down!
“Also also — driving slower uses more petrol? really? really? That’s the line you’re going to take whilst you criticise people for making unsubstantiated claims — what’s this guy got a doctorate in? and where from because the standards of that programme are clearly very low!”
That would be a doctorate in Engineering Management, from Cranfield University, achieved in April 2004… Wikipedia is doing plenty of heavy lifting this morning…
Taking the P... out of the world championships...
This is precisely the sort of attention to detail I’m looking forward to at the Glasgow World Chamionship in a week or two 😅
📸roobsa on IG pic.twitter.com/pfSomFYbfq
— Mathew Mitchell (@MatMitchell30) July 26, 2023
Tour de France-winning bikes rated — is Vingegaard's 1X 2023 Cervélo S5 the best yellow bike yet?
Bahrain Victorious pro banned for one month for causing horrendous Tour of Flanders crash
> Bahrain Victorious pro banned for one month for causing horrendous Tour of Flanders crash
Jonas Vingegaard returns to hero's welcome in Denmark
Is it 2022 again?
🇫🇷 #TDF2023
What a crowd. 🤩🇩🇰 pic.twitter.com/9sUuaquViv
— Team Jumbo-Visma cycling (@JumboVismaRoad) July 26, 2023
The current Tour de France champ (yep, triple checked that one after the ex-Aston Martin CEO fiasco…) returned to Copenhagen to huge crowds this lunchtime.
Police in Exeter appeal for information after cyclist pushed into Exeter Quay in "unprovoked attack"
Devon and Cornwall Police are appealing for witnesses after an “unprovoked attack” saw a cyclist in his 60s pushed from his bike into Exeter Quay.
The force said the victim was unharmed but his bicycle was left in the water after the incident at around 8.30pm on Thursday 20 July.
A police statement read: “The man was unharmed in the incident, however, his bicycle was left in the water. The incident took place between Exe Bridge North and Exe Bridge South which is adjacent to Edmund Street.
“Police are looking to speak to the male responsible who is described as a white, with light coloured short hair and was thought to be in his late teens. He was wearing a tight white tee-shirt. He was with a group of five other people. Anyone with information is asked to call police on 101 or by our website here quoting 50230202057.”
Shimano bike component sales fall by 18% as company cites "weak" demand for products
> Shimano bike component sales fall by 18% as company cites “weak” demand for products
UCI warns Britain's stance on Russian athletes will affect likelihood of hosting future events
With the final preparations being put on the UCI World Cycling Championships’ return to British soil, the UCI has told Britain its hardline stance on Russian athletes will affect its chances of staging future international cycling events.
That’s the news being reported by The Times, the governing body’s president David Lappartient writing to sports minister Stewart Andrew to say that it appears the government does not trust the UCI to ensure Russian and Belarusian athletes compete as neutrals at next month’s event.
The UK government has insisted athletes and support staff sign a separate declaration that they do not support the war in Ukraine or their nation’s leadership, and do not receive state funding.
> Ex-cycling team boss Oleg Tinkov renounces Russian citizenship over Ukraine war
The UCI has joined the IOC in criticising this position as it contravenes the UCI’s authority to determine eligibility requirements.
The letter, seen by journalists at the newspaper, reportedly says: “With the utmost recognition for the UK’s efforts and outstanding track record in hosting major international competitions, I feel compelled to convey our concern that measures like these could impact on the future assessment of bids from the UK for the organisation of UCI events.
“I sincerely believe that in any relationship, reciprocal trust is of the essence. The fact that the UK government has not shown signs of trust to our organisation will affect our trust in the UK’s commitment to the organisation of sporting events in coming years.”
> Ineos Grenadiers’ Russian pro Pavel Sivakov denounces invasion of Ukraine
In response, a government spokesperson said: “There is a clear consensus — from a coalition of like-minded nations, including the UK — that there should be no Russian and Belarusian state representation in sporting competitions while the war in Ukraine continues.
“At the request of national governing bodies, we provided guidance on how individual, self-funded athletes could compete in the UK on a neutral basis. This guidance respects the autonomy of sport, but makes clear that athletes should not actively support [the war or Vladimir Putin].”
Yara Kastelijn takes Tour de France Femmes victory on hectic fourth stage
There was barely a moment to take a breath during that last hour and a bit. One of the longer races you’ll see on the women’s calendar, today’s 177km stage to Rodez packed all the entertaining racing you could want into a non-stop finale. Ultimately, the breakaway took the day, Yara Kastelijn to be more specific, powering away from her companions on one of the numerous climbs that punctuated the profile.
🏅 What the win means to the whole team @FenixDeceuninck. This is teams’ first win at the #TDFF.
🏅 Ce que cette victoire signifie pour toute l’équipe @FenixDeceuninck. C’est la première victoire de l’équipe au #TDFF.#TDFF2023 #WatchTheFemmes @GoZwift pic.twitter.com/cQ9wdeDSpU
— Le Tour de France Femmes avec Zwift (@LeTourFemmes) July 26, 2023
At the line, second-placed Demi Vollering behind wasn’t sure if she’d won, such was the chaotic nature of the day, with riders all over the road, some dropping back from the large breakaway that got a friendly ten-minute headstart from the peloton.
In between the two aforementioned bits of action we saw a chase from Lotte Kopecky, the yellow jersey’s power over the decisive climb impressive, but not enough to free herself of the peloton for long.
“It’s really a dream, I can’t believe it!” 🤩
Yara Kastelijn praises her team for the victory at Stage 4 of #TDFF2023 🙌@Yarakastelijn | @FenixDeceuninck pic.twitter.com/25eh0WAJs9
— Eurosport (@eurosport) July 26, 2023
At the finish, the top-20 was a near perfect mix of breakaway riders and the GC group, Vollering second, Anouska Koster from the break in third. Six bonus seconds for Vollering over Van Vleuten and an all Dutch top four.
Kopecky remains in yellow, 43 seconds ahead of her teammate Vollering, who is herself eight seconds ahead of Van Vleuten. Shades of the earlier stages of the men’s race with the close sub-ten seconds between the two pre-race favourites. Who will be wearing yellow come Sunday evening remains to be seen…
Ex-Aston Martin CEO claims 20mph speed limits mean drivers are "swarmed by bicycles overtaking from all angles raising the risk of collision"
EDIT: Turns out Dr Andy Palmer left his role as CEO of Aston Martin a couple of years back. In his time since leaving the company, he joined electric bus maker Switch mobility as CEO, before stepping down from that role too at the end of last year.
Let’s start with these comments from Dr Andy Palmer…
The former CEO of Aston Martin and COO of Nissan who is, Wikipedia tells me, referred to as the ‘Godfather of EVs’ due to his work launching the Nissan Leaf. Palmer took to Twitter, sorry, let’s try that again. Palmer took to X. Nah, Palmer took to Twitter to recall his train strike experience…
“Drove into London today (anticipating a train strike) to be met with 20mph speed limits throughout Central London, policed with hundreds of speed cameras,” he said. “Another erosion of car users’ rights which along with ULEZ is likely to be unpopular with voters. I guess the argument for is lower emissions and crash injuries, but I doubt there is credible research behind this.
“20mph should be reserved for around schools & hospitals where it’s entirely valid. Emissions in the streets of London will almost certainly higher since one drives in a lower gear to control momentum avoiding the speed cameras. And at 20mph, I’m now swarmed by bicycles overtaking from all angles raising the risk of collision. I’d love to see the research that supports this but like so many things these days, I doubt it’s supported by valid facts but rather political expedience.”
Cue replies from people unpicking every single word, sharing studies and data to the contrary and just generally making Dr Palmer go very quiet on the matter…
You can literally use Google to find loads of cross-examined study about difference in braking distance between 30 and 20mph.
— PhoneKills (@phonekills) July 25, 2023
Ignorant car manufacturer executive takes a three seater sofa and two armchairs built inside a two ton metal box into a city demanding that he can drive at any speed.
Ironic that average car speed is 12.5 mph to 11.6 mph in inner London. 20.3 mph to 19.3 mph in outer London. 🤡 https://t.co/VofqpWR7l0 pic.twitter.com/omapyhlXMW
— Adam Reynolds (@awjre) July 25, 2023
Of the replies linking the research and data that Dr Palmer suggested “like so many things these days, I doubt it’s supported by valid facts but rather political expedience”, one reply shared the link to a British Medical Journal study from 2020 titled: ‘Twenty miles per hour speed zones reduce the danger to pedestrians and cyclists’.
Another popular one was Transport for London’s February release stating that “new data shows significant improvements in road safety in London since introduction of 20mph speed limits”.
“At sites monitored on the Transport for London Road Network (TLRN), collisions involving a vulnerable road user have decreased by 36 per cent, while collisions resulting in death or serious injury have decreased by 25 per cent after speed limits were lowered,” TfL concluded.
On the emissions front, research by Imperial College, cited by TfL and in this Welsh government literature review into the state of evidence on 20mph speed limits, found that “it would be incorrect to assume a 20mph speed restriction would be detrimental to ambient local air quality”.
The review suggested: “Although there was a moderate increase in CO2 and NOx in petrol cars, the study reported that particulate matter emissions reduced for both petrol and diesel cars and NOx and CO2 emissions reduced for diesel cars. As road traffic is responsible for up to 80 per cent of particulate pollution, this was a significant finding which supports the case for measures which secure observance of 20 mph speed limits.”
26 July 2023, 08:22
26 July 2023, 08:22
Help us to bring you the best cycling content
If you’ve enjoyed this article, then please consider subscribing to road.cc from as little as £1.99. Our mission is to bring you all the news that’s relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. Your subscription will help us to do more.
72 Comments
Read more...
Read more...
Read more...
Latest Comments
@jackcycles I'm not sure my grandchildren got that memo. Cycling should not be just for hardened road warriors.
Chrisonabike There are a number of police forces in England and Wales that are using portable testing equipment already... How effective it is another matter, I haven't looked into the results of failing (I would hope they just seize and crush the motorbike without any faff but I am sure there are appeal processes, promises not to use them on public roads etc).
Woah there - a precision-engineered European-made product, with unparalleled adaptability, is somehow a ‘rip off’? Compared to what - Temu? As per the article, most quality through-axles go for £50-60+, but aren’t adaptable and don’t provide any stand or trailer capability. If you want to balance your £3-4-5k suspension or carbon bike, or bikepacking setup on a budget product subject to highly focused stresses, fair play. Cycling’s a broad church.
@eburtthebike I've found Spanish drivers to be almost entirely excellent around cyclists.
I agree, the study was made after cycle paths that had been introduced in Berlin during the 70’s and 80’s caused a big increase in cycling deaths. It is an interesting study for cyclists to read in order to know what dangers exist at badly designed junctions. Here in Paris we have very few bi-directional paths. The ones I have cycled on have no building entrances or courtyards (so no cars crossing the path) and every junction is traffic lights to prevent accidents.
We have enough regulation. They're running a motorbike without insurance/registration and possibly without a licence, and the punishment for being caught with all that is pretty severe already. The problem is lack of enforcement.
In my experience with anything less than one of those serious mid-bike two-foot kickstands, a wall / tree / hedge is the better option, or the bike will sometimes show you the alternative and lie down by itself. Maybe I've got panniers that are just too large and the wrong balance of (too much) cargo though? And of course Edinburgh streets are great at funneling gusts of wind...
I agree there's a clear legal line * but I do see something here. Like much tech it's entirely opaque from the outside (without even invoking things like the VW emissions cheating).** I know in NL they have trialled semi-portable "test stations" to check max motor speeds. However with the latest "but there's no money" crisis I can't see that over here. Indeed it's hard to see the police being motivated to do any more roads policing, with this even further down the priority list. Hope I'm wrong... While I guess many of us *would* be fine with EAPCs as a means to attract "non-cyclists" ... perhaps there's an "attractive nuisance" element to this? We're ushering people into an apparently effortless, easy and minimal consequence mobility mode without the "learning experience" of managing a lighter, unpowered machine on roads. And it's still (busy) *roads* where the new power-assisted riders will often find themselves. Not like in more advanced countries where people usually cycle in much safer and more controlled environments. OTOH we should always balance such concerns against "but cars and full-power ICE motorbikes now" though! Number plates, licences and insurance aren't necessarily mitigating that well... * As soon as there are laws games will be played. How long can you be above the "continuous rate power" for? Can we have *multiple* legal motors on one machine? ** Is the power / speed actually regulated by software, and how long will that keep a child armed with the internet from unlocking it?
And maybe a planning obligation to have traffic Marshalls controlling access out of the site not obstructing the path and restricting it if cyclists are likely to be obstructed …one can hope
I'll stick to my low rider with Karrimor Kalahari dry bag panniers and Karrimor Kalahari barbag thanks.
72 thoughts on “Ex-Aston Martin CEO claims 20mph speed limits mean drivers are “swarmed by bicycles overtaking from all angles raising the risk of collision”; Wholesome content as Luke Rowe’s son does team car TT radio messages + more on the live blog”
Ah Schrodingers cyclist –
Ah Schrodingers cyclist – both slowing down traffic and zooming past in excess of 20mph.
Also – not being funny but whenever I am in central London on strike days, the speed limit is not the thing slowing cars down!
Also also – driving slower uses more petrol? really? really? That’s the line you’re going to take whilst you criticise people for making unsubstantiated claims – what’s this guy got a doctorate in? and where from because the standards of that programme are clearly very low!
Driving, in a constant
Driving, in a constant straight line, going 20ish will create more emissions than going 30-40ish as I understand it. Not sure if that’s just because that’s the speed engines are deliberately optimised for though, and I don’t think it applies to Palmer’s precious EVs.
However in the real world accelerating to the next red light then braking causes far more emissions.
Won’t that very much depend
Won’t that very much depend on which gear and revs you are using ?
My car happily pootles at 20mph and its not some 1.1 eco city model
But the same engine speed one
But the same engine speed one gear higher will produce more speed without much more engine emissions.
Indeed and I was always
Indeed and I was always taught to drive in the higher gear to use the engine that way and control speed more easily, this ex Ceo sounds like he shoves it in 1st and revs the engine high to do 20mph which, purely on engine speed means its using more fuel, creating more emissions, than if he kept the revs lower in a higher gear.
Awavey wrote:
On the other hand, I was taught to drive in a lower gear, because then it feels faster and you are less likely to speed.
That depends on whether the
That depends on whether the engine revs are in a useful part of the torque curve. If you are below the bottom of the torque curve, you will use less fuel in a lower gear/ higher revs.
Back in the day (70s?) car fuel consumption only used to quote constant speed figures, and there was an obvious correlation between increased speed and increased fuel consumption. Then it was changed to simulated urban driving which included more accelerating, idling etc. In some peopls minds this has created the impression that cars are most efficient at 56mph (90kph) because that is now the only constant speed figure quoted.
For what it is worth out ‘ere in the sticks I frequently drive at a steady 20mph because I am following a traaactor and I can assure you the instaneous fuel consumption my car shows is very low, and far better than at higher speeds.
This is true for older
This is true for older engines with gearboxes, I don’t think it applies to modern EVs.
Pretty much correct. It was
Pretty much correct. It was often said cars are most efficient at around 45-55 mph cruising speed since you’re probably in an overdrive gear. Thats why car makers would quote fuel economy as urban / combined etc. You usually slow down and accelerate more in urban areas due to junctions etc which eats up more fuel. Electric cars still suffer from this a little but since they are much more efficient at accelerating this is less of an issue.
Car Delenda Est wrote:
Come on – you ride a bike, you know that this isn’t true.
Aerodynamic drag increases with speed squared – so as you double speed, you have to overcome 4x the aerodynamic resistance. Driving at 40mph requires the production of twice as much force as driving at 20mph, which common sense dictates must require more energy – whilst there might be some delta in how the energy requirement matches up, an some engine tuning might implement this, I would be amazed if it was sufficient to overcome the increased energy cost of overcoming 4x the draft.
Very true I’m assuming this
Very true I’m assuming this is a ‘fact’ that comes from a test bed engine under simulated load rather than from the real world.
Carior wrote:
Come on – you ride a bike, you know that this isn’t true.
Aerodynamic drag increases with speed squared – so as you double speed, you have to overcome 4x the aerodynamic resistance. Driving at 40mph requires the production of twice as much force as driving at 20mph, which common sense dictates must require more energy – whilst there might be some delta in how the energy requirement matches up, an some engine tuning might implement this, I would be amazed if it was sufficient to overcome the increased energy cost of overcoming 4x the draft.— Car Delenda Est
Prepare to be amazed!
The difference between bikes and cars (especially ICE cars) is that bikes are very efficient – with upwards of 90% of energy exerted at the pedals being used to drive the wheels [1][2][3]. Therefore, there is a very direct relationship between the power you need to exert and the external factors such as wind resistance and gradient.
With a ICE car, the “tank to wheel” efficiency may be as low as 10-20%, with the vast majority of the energy being wasted internally [1][2]. Therefore, whilst going faster will need more power at the wheels, the total increase in energy use will not correspond to the same extent. A small proporiton of that is drivetrain losses which will correlate with speed, but a large proportion is lost in the engine itself and will not. Therefore, an increase in speed (requiring greater power expenditure at the wheels) will not correlate so closely with total energy consumed by the engine.
This is backed up by numerous studies that demonstrate the most efficient speed (assuming constant speed) is typically ~30 – 50mph – see e.g. [1][2][3][4].
There are real world nuances
There are real world nuances to such a claim that makes ICE vehicles fall very much into either camps – dependent on engine RPM and best suited gear ratio available (especially manual transmissions which have at most 6 speeds). If you have a gear ratio that runs in a gear at 20mph that sits the engine at its most optimum torque delivery (between 1400 and 1800rpm dependent on fuel type, size and engine layout, where an engine in isolation is its most efficient) sitting at 20mph will be more efficient. Optiomum fuel efficiency in combustion engines requires a balancing of a combination of drag (both CdA and rolling resistance), drivetrain gear ratios and engine speeds. Vehicles designed better for “motorway miles” have gear ratios that give peak torque delivery at lower fuel consumption in the 50-60mph range, any higher will succumb to the speed x drag squared problem. For city cars and smaller vehicles, the higher gear options are optimised for 20, 30 and 40 mph respectively and are much less efficient going faster than that.
Multiple stoppages and accellerations which happens more often in inner towns and cities drastically increase fuel consuption and accellerating to higher speeds, regardless of drivetrain takes more fuel consumption to create the power to build up the inertia.
That used to be the case.
That used to be the case. Constant speed gives pretty low NOx and PM emissions in modern engines. Most tailpipe emissions come from short spikes during acceleration events. The data is well hidden behind emissions data, though, which are almost all presented as average speeds.
Carior wrote:
Engineering Management. I assume that’s a flavour of doctorate in paper pushing, like an MBA is for Business.
Bigfoz wrote:
Like people who study “History of Art” because they aren’t artistic.
brooksby wrote:
— brooksbyAs the graffito above the toilet roll said “Humanities degrees: please take one”
Dr Andy Palmer wrote:
“And I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn’t been for those meddling speed cameras!”
…’swarmed by ‘ something
…’swarmed by ‘ something.something ‘overtaking from all angles, raising the risk of collision.’
Glad I’ve never experienced such a thing whilst riding in traffic.
Quote:
What “rights” would those be Dr Palmer?
SDWorx collection this year
SDWorx collection this year meant yesterday’s win was their 50th stage win of the season.
I suspect the other teams are worried SDWorx could just unleash a solo TT victory as Marlen Reuser did at Gent Wevelgem, or at Itzulia when they all sat back expecting Demi to chase her back. Or it ends in a Paris Roubaix when the breakaway won because everyone sat back to let Kopecky chase for them.
Maybe just ask the other teams what they’re thinking about it instead.
Dr Palmer may find this
Dr Palmer may find this instructive.
Quote:
Daft question – how are people pronouncing “X”? As the letter or as “cross”?
Instead of Tweeting – are people now X-ing or Cross-ing?
“Cross” feels like it captures the mood most people appear to comment on X….
It seems to me that Musk
It seems to me that Musk bought it and now wants to change everything about it. He started by sacking so many staff members, then changed the rules about verified twitterers, then changed them back, then changed viewing limits, then…, then…, then changed the name.
Imagine buying a carbon fibre road bike. Then retrofitting rim brakes. Then changing the decals. Then putting on a leather touring saddle and North Road bars…
He would have been better off just throwing his money at a twitter-killer, like Zuckerberg did.
(Or buying a touring bike).
HoldingOn wrote:
I don’t know, but I’ve heard that Sesame Street are examining their legal options
and Charles Xavier is
and Charles Xavier is considering using his first initial for his team name
X-creting?
X-creting?
Oldfatgit wrote:
Winner.
Mobile phone traffic offences
Mobile phone traffic offences rise 579% in Suffolk
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/23645373.suffolk-mobile-phone-traffic-offence-reports-579pc/
More worryingly KSIs by unlawful driving have doubled over the last 5 years.
Awavey wrote:
Given death rates don’t appear to have increased this is probably a good thing.
In that the change is we are holding bad drivers accountable rather than just accepting driving standards that kill as perfectly reasonable and normal…
Well it means there are an
Well it means there are an increasing number of drivers on the road who think its ok to drive dangerously, under the influence of drink or drugs, without insurance or even bother with a valid license .
Because theyll only be caught after they’ve KSId someone, that’s what concerns me.
Newspaper problem.
Newspaper problem.
That’s reports, not offences.
Quote:
While I am a believer in 20mph limits, I think you have to be careful about particulate emissions, because at low engine speeds these can build up in the exhaust system, only to be cleared later when the engine is operated at higher speed. With my previous deisels I often had to rag the engine for a while before the MOT to clear out all the soot, so that when the tester rags the engine it measures current engine emissions only, not emmissions stored over several weeks or months.
COO of Nissan
COO of Nissan
How appropriate for someone with a pigeon sized brain.
eburtthebike wrote:
Dear car executives and
Dear car executives and morons,
Maybe instead of selling cars that are ineffficent and polluting at town speeds so that they can achieve a top speed of 130 – 200+mph – illiegal in almost every country in the world…you would find that pollution is an awful lot lower.
All new vehicles should be speed limited to the legal speed limit in each country they are sold in, and optimised for the environment they operate in (thats town speeds for the most part) Hell, I hear so called modern cars have ‘tech’ in them these days…maybe they could optimise themselves to not pollute so much at each speed they drive at?
Thank you
I agree. Will also add
I agree. Will also add acceleration should be limited as well, especially with EV’s as even the “lower-end” ones can do 0-60 in 5-6 seconds so 0-20/30 means they are across most of a roundabout from a standing start before the driver emerging from another junction is aware how fast they have travelled. You see it alot in the recent Dashcam videos.
AlsoSomniloquism wrote:
It’s now at the stage when cycling or driving that when I’m at junctions or roundabouts that I double check the regi plates for the EV tag and then take greater caution as the driver is either monopolising the acceleration or is unused to it.
Nah it’s a useful state of
Nah it’s a useful state of affairs: if God wanted cars in cities he would have made them efficient at city speeds.
On “Town speed” – the point
On “Town speed” – the point of speed limits which the good Dr. appears to have missed is to reduce the number of collisions and – particularly in urban areas – to reduce harm when they occur. One of the consequences of a crash is that people will / are required to stop (and emergency vehicle may need to access etc). That will make it really slow! Avoiding that benefits drivers.
There is also the Downs-Thomson paradox – summarised: the average speed of private vehicles in urban areas tends to that of the public transport.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs%E2%80%93Thomson_paradox
I did wonder why a CEO of a
I did wonder why a COO of a major car manufacturer would not see the changes to the way we choose to use our roads as an opportunity to get ahead of their rivals and offer practical cars for modern cities. Perhaps he knows that the gig is up and we need to move away large personal forms of transport. After all he did admit his preferred mode of transport, had it not been for a strike, would have been the train.
*Former* Aston Martin CEO and
*Former* Aston Martin CEO and Nissan COO. He’s now “on a mission to help the planet” don’t’cha know
I love how he says that “one
I love how he says that “one drives in a lower gear to control momentum avoiding the speed cameras” rather than driving below the speed limit because it’s – er – the legal speed limit.
Doing it just to try and avoid being penalised, not doing it because it’s the right f-ing thing.
quiff wrote:
Which planet? Not this one, obviously.
eburtthebike wrote:
Presumably favours a venusian climate.
For the record, Dr Palmer is
For the record, Dr Palmer is no longer employed by Aston Martin… they saw sense and gave him the elbow 3 yrs ago.
His logic seems flawed… if by his own admission a 20 limit is entirely valid around hospitals and schools, then why not elsewhere?
Anyhow, urban supercar owners love a 20 limit… means they can drive slowly past adoring spectators on the Kings Road in 1st gear for that perfect Insta moment.
PRSboy wrote:
You don’t get as many Deathrace points for bagging a hospital hobbler or a child, since they aren’t as quick at the dodging as the bog-standard ped or cyclist. Therefore the speed restriction is increased to 20mph at the hozzies and skools, to allow full points if you stick to the limit and still mangle a hobbler or bairn.
The type that likes to admire their dash and cut in shop windows as they go past will drive into a lamp post or granny even at 10mph, as they aren’t looking where they’re going. Mind, they aren’t anyway as they’re otherwise gazing at their gizmo stupifier screen to read the latest x-tweet-from-a-twat in another twatmobile, boasting about how they just ran over a cyclist.
Cugel wrote:
Reading that reminded me of reading a novel by Irvine Welsh.
I live on a 30mph road, we
I live on a 30mph road, we have some local supercars whose owners take them out each weekend. Two stick in my mind, a Ferrari and a Lamborghini. Both seem to be driven all down my road in 1st gear, with the drivers constantly blipping the gas pedal so they continually rumble. Noisy twats.
Today’s gift from the Good
Today’s gift from the Good Idea Fairy: highway code as a mandatory GCSE (perhaps throw in modules on taxes and the UK constitution.)
Discuss.
Nah, that’s leaving it too
Nah, that’s leaving it too late, and for most learning practically / experientially is more effective. Lots of these, please!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_park
I’d done the highway code for
I’d done the highway code for my cycling proficiency by 10 or 11.
Not cycling-related so feel
Not cycling-related so feel free to ignore.
I was being a pedestrian at lunchtime.
Busy road but 20 mph speed limit, single lane one-way with cars parked up along the far side. No crossings.
I want to cross, so cross into the half-a-parking-space behind a car I can see is full of children in the back seat and a couple in the front.
As I am right behind them, the car lurches backward and I have to jump out of the way.
The car pulls out into traffic, with me walking on the pavement and shaking my head. The driver stops his car, opens the window, and shouts that if I hadn’t walked behind his car then he wouldn’t have nearly run me over. I shout back that the car wasn’t moving until I was right behind him – did he look before reversing? He then calls me a rude word and screams off at definitely more than 20 mph…
Bl00dy motorists, eh?
I recently had a driver tell
I recently had a driver tell me (as a cyclist) that if I’d had something reflective on, he wouldn’t have nearly reversed into me. It was broad daylight, I was running dynamo lights, and he hadn’t used his mirrors in any event, as he reversed back into the junction he had overshot. I lost my s***. Regrettably, right outside my little one’s nursery.
quiff wrote:
I couldn’t think of a better place to educate someone on safe driving.
Reminds me of the time I left
Reminds me of the time I left my local newsagent carrying a paper, when a driver pulled onto the pavement, forcing me to stop. When I remonstrated with him, the reply was
“Well, you were reading your paper.”
I was so gobsmacked I couldn’t think of a reply.
Bike related. I was on an
Bike related. I was on an interval session last night so was initially going fast but a few 100m from a village shop I saw a Merc parked in the middle of the road between two others either side left and right and eased of 20 or so seconds later I got to the car and she was blocking a van that was being really patient with her giving the Merc plenty of room but she just sat there no indication what she was doing. After a bit of track standing behind her I eventually overtook on her right. At which point she yelled at me, ” don’t undertake on my left”. I’d never been there but had she first spotted me coming fast in her left mirror and never thought to look in her rear one
The van driver’s response to me was, “Don’t worry mate, I saw what she done”!
As an infra intersectionalist
As an infra intersectionalist I support this message
Can we all stop feeding the
Can we all stop feeding the troll, now, please?
Cosy deal done by the Crown
Cosy deal done by the Crown in the Tony Parsons’ case. Murder charge dropped in favour of a guilty plea to culpable homicide (manslaughter). Sentencing Friday for the robust of stomach.
https://news.stv.tv/west-central/tony-parsons-twin-guilty-of-killing-charity-cyclist-and-covering-it-up-with-brother
Further details:
Further details:
“Prosecutor Alex Prentice KC revealed Alexander was already had a string of road traffic convictions.
He was guilty of dangerous driving in 2009 in Oban. Three years later, he was convicted of drink driving.
The same year, Alexander was guilty of careless driving. Both the latter cases were at Stirling.
Mr Parsons had travelled from his home in Tillicoultry, Clackmannanshire, in September 2017 to Fort William and was intending on returning south as part of a charity bike ride.
The amended culpable homicide charge stated Alexander drove at excess speed and when unfit through alcohol on the night of the killing.
Mr Parsons was cycling on the A82 at the time.
Prosecutors stated Alexander failed to observe him and caused his vehicle to hit the dad.
Knowing Mr Parsons was then badly hurt, he failed to get any medical help for the victim in what was described as “reckless disregard for the consequences” of his actions.
The cyclist was said to have been abandoned at the side of the road in the dark and remote area in “inclement weather”.
Mr Parsons was eventually reported missing on October 2 2017.
Both McKellars knew what had happened and took extreme steps to cover up the crime.
The damaged car involved in the killing was dumped at the nearby Auch Estate along with their phones.
They then returned in another car to where stricken Mr Parsons still was.
The man was then hauled into this motor along with his bike and other personal belongings.
The brothers went back to the Auch Estate and initially hid the body in a part of the woods.
But, the victim was later taken to another location there used “for the purposes of disposing dead animals”.
A grave was then dug and the body of tragic Mr Parsons dumped in it.
He was buried while his personal belongings were also disposed of.
Prosecutors said the brothers got help in trying to repair the car used in the killing claiming damage had been caused by hitting a deer.
The charge stated all this was to “prevent and delay the discovery of the body”.
It was said they did “obstruct” the police from conducting a “full and proper investigation” into the circumstances of the killing.”
https://www.obantimes.co.uk/2023/07/26/driver-admits-killing-charity-cyclist-then-burying-body/
Everyone’s nightmare. Those
Everyone’s nightmare. Those who have zero care for others compared to their own convenience and are quite prepared to follow the logic through.
Or – worse – they could have either gone on and said later they couldn’t recall the incident (see previous in road.cc) or ‘fessed up but said “he came out of nowhere”. Said how sorry they were and they did everything in their power to save him, then had a panic, went home and had a drink to steady their nerves. As we know from other stories the result of either may not involve any time in custody.
Well if the sun was in their
Well if the sun was in their eyes while they were digging his grave I should imagine they’ll get off with a severe reprimand.
Edit – I hope what I said doesn’t sound flippant. I really hope these scumbags get what they deserve, but I doubt they will.
“a further erosion of drivers
“another erosion of car users’ privileges” (entitled wonkery I say!)
FTFY Doc
I told you 20mph zones were a
I told you 20mph zones were a good idea https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/laurence-fox-fined-breaking-speed-limit-driving-london-b1096595.html
How come he was allowed to be
How come he was allowed to be charged with a ticket in May for an offence in December? Or does even Nick Freeman have standards and didn’t want to touch him with a bargepole?
Stumbled across this on
Stumbled across this on internet today
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/elvedes-punch-tool-cable-pricker-4.1-4.9mm-for-flaring-sleeves/138475365/p
Pricey, and can find no reviews. But could be effective.
Any of you tool collectors got any real world experience?
I have one. Brilliant piece
[Avatar]
ktache | 5804 posts | 1 hour ago
1 like
Stumbled across this on internet today
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/elvedes-punch-tool-cable-pricker-4.1…(link is external)
Pricey, and can find no reviews. But could be effective.
Any of you tool collectors got any real world experience?
I have one. Brilliant piece of kit, works faultlessly.
I use one of these, never let
I use one of these, never let me down and a lot cheaper
A pair of cable cutters I
A pair of cable cutters I have has a pick that retracts from the handle and does the same job.
“20mph should be reserved for
“20mph should be reserved for around schools & hospitals where it’s entirely valid.“
Are those the only locations where motorists maim and kill?
He already pointed out that
He already pointed out that driving anywhere at 20mph was dangerous as the driver would be concentrating on the speedo rather the the surroundings, then states have them soley outside those locations as they make them safer. Just goes to show that people supposedly educated to Doctorate levels can throw out oxymorons.