Although race officials decided to take no action against the cyclists who rode through a closed level crossing in yesterday's Paris-Roubaix, French rail company SNCF says riders should be prosecuted for acting "against all safety rules".
The barriers at a crossing in Northern France came down as riders approached, but a large number went round or even under them. One rider from the Lotto team was even clipped by the barrier as it dropped.
Seconds later a TGV hurtled through the crossing.
SNCF is, unsurprisingly, not impressed.
"Millions of television viewers saw live this extremely serious and irresponsible action which could have been tragic," the rail company said in a statement.
"A few seconds later, a TGV ran on this line and could have hit the peloton.
"SNCF has decided to lodge a legal complaint and will leave it up to the investigation to determine who was responsible. We regret that such foolhardiness took place."
While the lead riders in the group might be able to claim they were too close to stop safely as the barriers, video of the incident clearly shows some riders ignoring a motorcycle policeman's instructions to wait.
Guy Dobbelaere, president of the race jury, said: "It wasn't possible for the leading riders to stop sufficiently safely.
"By neutralising the race for a few moments to not penalise those who stopped, we respected the spirit of the rule."
The rule in question reads "It shall be strictly forbidden to cross level crossings when the barrier is down.
"Apart from risking the penalty for such an offence as provided by law, offending riders shall be eliminated from the competition by the commissaires."
However, Dobbelaere said some of the riders could not be identified during the race.
"In theory, those who pass when the barrier is down are thrown out of the race.
"This time, that would have been unjust in respect of those riders who weren't identified."
Paris-Roubaix crosses railways multiple times, making the prospect of interactions with trains an ongoing headache for race organisers.
In 2006 the race's lead riders, Lief Hoste, Vladimir Gusev and Peter Van Petegem were disqualified for ducking under the barriers at a level crossing. The race was running ahead of schedule that year too, leading to what organisers called "an unpredictable accident de la course."
According to the Express there were 29 deaths at French level crossings in 2014. British level crossings have a rather better record, with 44 deaths over the last five years and just four in 2014.
French TGVs travel so fast that a driver may not even notice the train has hit someone. When a train hit a cyclist last year, the unfortunate rider's body was not found until it stopped at Mulhouse, close to the Swiss border, 40km away.
Network Rail's advice in its Level crossings for cyclists leaflet is:
• Consider dismounting – especially when you’re about to cross the tracks diagonally
• Follow signs and instructions
• Check both ways before crossing – if there is a train coming, don’t cross
• Remain stationary until all the warnings stop
• Check that your exit is clear before crossing
67 thoughts on “French railway calls for prosecutions of Paris-Roubaix crossing-dodgers (+video)”
One of the biggest races in
One of the biggest races in France, and the SNCF refuse to slow the train in the first place. What do they expect. They should of stopped the train for 4-5 mins and everyone would be happy.
roadie.ronan wrote:One of the
I’m sure stopping a train for 4-5 minutes to let a race through would mean more like stopping the train for an hour, once you factor in the uncertainty of when and where it would have to stop, how long for, etc, etc.
Have a look at the video –
Have a look at the video – that doesn’t look like a train travelling at 200mph. The TGV can travel at those sort of speeds but that looked to me more like 50-70mph… so they did slow down.
Media hype at the expense of accurate reporting again imho.
roadie.ronan wrote:One of the
Because of the tailwind the race was actually quite a way ahead of schedule, so even if they planned to stop the train that would have been due to cross at the originally projected time, the train which did arrive would still have been there. It’s one thing to close a road for a given time, but to expect a major train route to succeed to the race is extremely unrealistic.
As others have stated, the focus should really be on the professional riders who risked their lives, and flouted the rules in order to save a bit of time, knowing that the race would be slowed to allow them to catch up. It’s not the first time the race has been run on this route, so riders should know to expect potential delays and not display that kind of reckless behaviour to the world.
And another thing – at least two riders got smacked on the head by the barrier, so what if they’d actually fallen? You’re back to a previous comment about running in cycling shoes…
Shocking.
^ Trains have schedules to
^ Trains have schedules to adhere to, surely? Not like rolling road blocks. I wouldn’t be very happy if the train had to be stopped while a bike race went through.
While this isn’t the near miss the media are making out, the level (ha) of stupidity of some of the riders is unreal.
Stop the train for a bike
Stop the train for a bike race? Crazy! Imagine the knock on effects to other services and trains. You can’t just ‘stop’ a train and not cause major havoc on the lines.
The riders were just plain stupid. It’s been know for over a 100 years there are train lines that the race crosses. It’s written into the rules that they have to stop. No surprises. If you get caught out, then bad luck.
They should have been disqualified (as were some a few years ago – whatever happened to consistency?) and if prosecution is in order, then so be it.
jmaccelari wrote:Stop the
Agree with all this.
The rules are very clear, this has happened repeatedly and it’s no good having rules if they aren’t enforced. Bloody cyclists!
Perhaps the UCI commissaires were too busy inspecting frames for 5w electronic motors.
The first few through I could
The first few through I could forgive, given the pace of the pack behind them.
Once the barriers are well down and you can see the speed of the riders crossing is slowed considerably, it’s just a stupid adrenaline decision.
I’d be on the side of SNCF with this. Some form of punishment is required to discourage it in the future.
So, so stupid. It doesn’t
So, so stupid. It doesn’t bear thinking about what would’ve happened if any of them came down on the tracks as they tried to get around the barriers – there’s no way the train would’ve been able to stop in time.
Regardless of whether or not
Regardless of whether or not the train could have been stopped, as it was it wasn’t… so what the riders did was insane. Tottering across an empty road can be hard enough in road shoes (with your legs in cycle-mode), let alone trying to sprint across an uneven railway track in front of an encroaching train. I would have hoped in fact that the peloton would have recognised the issue (and potential risks) and not allowed anyone or any team to take advantage of the delay to make a break.
Hardly gives a good
Hardly gives a good impression of cyclists to;
– drivers who already hate us for running reds
– kids who look up to some of these pro’s
– the average person looking to get into cycling
crossing level crossings with
crossing level crossings with barriers down does seem to result is people enjoying a premature arrival at their destination. Presumably these people thought they’d spot the train coming. Are you sure you wouldnt make the same mistake?
My guess is that Degenkolb is
My guess is that Degenkolb is one of the riders who went through and they don’t want to throw him out. I will watch it again to see if it’s possible to tell..
One solution is on Race Day
One solution is on Race Day TGV changes the barrier timing’s to come down twice as early! if the race is early it’ll still be caught?!
with Road radios teams are responsible to communicate to riders to stop at the upcoming crossing once TGV communicates the barrier closure! Communication is Key!
In Britain, we usually have
In Britain, we usually have two barriers, one for either side of the road…
ps. Full width road barriers
ps. Full width road barriers would stop this… an ongoing issue with the Race NoOnes Resolved!
By the fact that it’s a half
By the fact that it’s a half barrier, I’m sure that isn’t a 200mph section of the TGV network. The trains don’t run exclusively on high speed track.
Disappointed to not find this on the Daily Fail, the comments section would have hit at least a 9 on the frothing-at-the-mouth scale.
Update: The comments on the express website however are quite superb! I think my favourite is this contribution from a Mr J Arthur Turdly
In fact after reading their comments thread, I think it would be fair to describe the average Express reader as a slapper.
Hi Bikebot, it was in the DM
Hi Bikebot, it was in the DM yesterday. As you predicted, the comments were amusing, but worrying 8}
fancynancy wrote:Hi Bikebot,
Thanks, found it, it’s rather good!
Some people watch Jeremy Kyle, I read the Daily Mail. I find angry dim neurotic middle class people funny.
Favourite exchange so far –
It’s just so completely off topic I found it hilarious. Comparing a road race to banking fraud is about as random as comparing a road race to the average bike commuter. Which of course is what every other comment on the site is doing…
For anyone else who is interested – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3035826/Watch-cyclists-narrowly-miss-oncoming-high-speed-train-refuse-stop-level-crossing-Sir-Bradley-Wiggins-Sky-road-race.html
fancynancy wrote:Hi Bikebot,
Daily Mail comments are a window into another world. Can you imagine being that angry all the time? It must be exhausting.
The first pack going through
The first pack going through at high speed is fine. If they try and stop, they will cause a collision on the tracks. However, once the barriers are down, those who crossed should be punished. They should have been disqualified to be honest.
http://road.cc/content/news/1
http://road.cc/content/news/126611-fabian-cancellara-sparks-helmet-debate-twitter-says-all-cyclists-should-wear-one
Remember kids, safety is important.
Prosecute every individual
Prosecute every individual rider who passed the barrier after it was down.
This idiotic, selfish, and careless behaviour has just handed out more bullets for drivers to fire when they argue against cyclists getting better safety considerations and better cycleways.
Well done Pro’s, wreck it, for those of us who pay for everything you do.
Arceye wrote:Prosecute every
Wow. Our own little bit of Daily Heil readership. This is one of the most stupid posts I have ever read on Road.cc.
I do not condone those who
I do not condone those who decided to risk their lives in this way but I do acknowledge that trying to come to a halt at the head of a peloton also carries its own risks.
Surely it was the responsibility of the commissaires to be aware of the train schedule and neutralize the race if there was a risk of arriving there at the same time as the train.
This crossing should have
This crossing should have been marshalled well in advance instead of one poor Gendarme on a motorbike (badly positioned) trying to hold back a peleton.
The race organisers got this wrong. Not excusing the actions of the riders though. Dicks.
I dont know about setting a bad example to kids – there is enough bad behaviour from born again MAMILS out on their stupid sportives as it is and now they will be all be jumping level crossings so they can maintain their STRAVA bragging rights in the office on Monday morning and ‘because the pros do it’.
.
.
Some Fella wrote:This
Agree re the marshals. Enough prior notice would give the riders time to stop if required. There must also be some sort of riders briefing.
Also agree that there are bad apples in every group (MAMILS) but I am interested to know what makes sportives stupid?
Some Fella wrote:This
indeed – no-one to blame but the organisers
The UCI is not
The UCI is not impressed:
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-safety-races/
I feel like that train
I feel like that train probably wasn’t doing 200 mph…
They can do that but they slow down for level crossings
The only thing more baffling
The only thing more baffling than the behavior itself is the decision to be inconsistent with the enforcement of the rules.
I’m not sure it was *quite*
I’m not sure it was *quite* as dangerous as some people are saying (I’m going to stick my neck out on the line and say I recon those crossing late were able to see the train and how much time they had)
HOWEVER – the rules really do need to be applied here. Once the pelaton was stopped, those finally few jumping across late really should be held accountable. If you are told to stop, you stop. There should be no ‘interpretation’ allowed.
Quote:Seconds later a 200mph
At 200mph? They were indeed lucky.
don simon wrote:Quote:Seconds
I refer you to the laws of physics. The train weighs anything from 50 tonnes to 100 tonnes. Anything over walking speed (ie the ability to not be impacted) is pretty academic.
22mph /10 m/s gives you an impact force of 50,000 x (10 x 10) over 2 so around about 2.5 million joules of impact.
200 mph? my calculator hasn’t got enough digits. But put it like this, a range rover smacking you head on at 50mph is only 726,000.
rather academic really. Getting hit by a train at any speed is going to sting a bit.
There was no way that train
There was no way that train was travelling at 200mph!
And, the comments on that Daily Express article really do defy belief. I wonder if these people are as ignorant in other aspects of their lives?
Iamnot Wiggins wrote:There
Maybe so but it was still going more than quick enough to plaster them all the way to Paris.
Ok, I know it’s the trendy
Ok, I know it’s the trendy thing to do: come to a forum topic late and offer an opposing view, just to be different, but… I think it’s worth considering the heat of the moment. Paris – Roubaix, biggest one day race on the calendar. Heart pumping, adrenaline coursing. What do I do!?! What do I do!?! He went through so it’ll be fine… I wonder how many of them today are asking themselves wtf they thought they were doing? Fine them, sure, but let’s not be so righteous and perhaps offer some empathy.
Jonny_Trousers wrote:Ok, I
I’m with you
Your near the front of one of, if not the biggest one day bike race in the world and the crossing alarm goes off, the guy at the front carries on, a couple more follow him, the barriers start to drop, the adrenalin is buzzing and you are about to see your chance of winning go hurtling up the road, at what point and which rider should have been the first to stop?
Not saying people shouldn’t stop but surely some blame has to go to the organisers here who could have used race radio to warn that the crossing was ahead, very difficult to know where you are when in a large peloton and some riders probably had about 2 seconds from being aware to making a decision.
OnTheRopes
Because it must always be someone else’s fault.
OnTheRopes
Some common sense at last
Looking forward : race brief
Looking forward : race brief should emphasise that the race will be neutralised if a level crossing comes down. Make sure that comms are in place for it to happen. If you watched the race you’ll see they did neutralise it – all it really needs is for the riders to be 100% confident that if they are held up, it wont impact their place in the race.
I’m sure when I looked at the
I’m sure when I looked at the video that there were Police on foot on site too. One appeared to be on the blocked side on their RHS (LHS looking at them appraoching) and maybe two others on verge on opposite side of road. Hands were clearly raised and Red lights flashing.
The 200 mph TGV can be seen as a red herring since despite it was capable of 200 mph it clearly was in reduced speed mode. But did the riders know that? Anyone jumping across a track will find it very hard to judge the speed of an approaching train.
Even at low speeds the braking distance of a train must be huge.
Deneutralising the section? Hmm. Not sure that can be well controlled if, for example, there was a breakaway several minutes clear. The same as if a breakaway got there as the barriers came down. It will never be fair.
It seemed to be a very poorly marshalled point on a high profile race. Should they have been more prominent, better briefed and more active? I think so.
Part of the history of the
Part of the history of the sport…. trains during PR… and the race officials making whatever ruling suits them best.
A different
A different view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hf11p05gJA
ColT wrote:A different
Thanks, this was useful. I counted 12 seconds between the last chap (from BMC) getting across and the train crossing. Clearly not recommended behaviour but absent a slip/stumble he wasn’t in any real danger. Perhaps we could all move on?
SNCF might do better to spend more on infrastructure at crossings like this one (I think they are responsible for them) – maybe a barrier across the entire road. And the ASO should put more marshals on at level crossings and come up with some clear rules about neutralisation so riders don’t feel that they need to cross against the lights.
surly_by_name wrote: And the
This is the key to the whole issue.
Heat of the moment; slight panic…. “that bunch of chancers is gonna steal a march if I hang around waiting for the train…”
Riders need to know that there is absolutely no advantage to be won/lost by such events. Mind you, policing/enforcing/judging the same is another matter.
surly_by_name wrote: And the
This is the key to the whole issue.
Heat of the moment; slight panic…. “that bunch of chancers is gonna steal a march if I hang around waiting for the train…”
Riders need to know that there is absolutely no advantage to be won/lost by such events. Mind you, policing/enforcing/judging the same is another matter.
surly_by_name wrote:
SNCF
Barriers have been covering only half of the road since crossings became unmanned, for the very good reason that you don’t want to trap someone that is right between the two barriers when the start closing. The barriers close really fast, and especially on lines that are more than two track wide, and crossings with heavy car traffic, this can be a non anecdotal eventuality.
As for the speed, of course the train wasn’t doing 200mph. TGVs do 300 to 350km/h only on the dedicated high-speed lines (LGV), which of course have no level crossings, and are fully fenced, just like motorways. This is a normal track that TGVs can obviously use, at the same speed as other trains. On some tracks, this speed can still be up to 230-250km/h. If I remember correctly, any speed above 200km/h imposes removing all level crossings. I’d say the train here is travelling at 110-120km/h.
That’s me being a terrible train geek though.
Crossings should have
Crossings should have officials ready with tasers in hand for those pesky pro riders with an exagerated sense of adventure.
Given that cycling seems to
Given that cycling seems to attract a number of people who would otherwise be sipping weak lemon drink and noting down the number of the approaching train, this is the story that keeps on giving…
crikey wrote:Given that
=)) :)) =D>
has anyone located this
has anyone located this particular crossing on google maps?
It was a training ride.
It was a training ride.
=))
IGMC.
200 mph? Are you kidding me?
200 mph? Are you kidding me?
There are full barriers in
There are full barriers in the UK for unmanned crossings (I’m sure of it)
The red lights and warning
The red lights and warning sirens are going long before the barriers start coming down. The lead motorbikes could easily have stopped, as could the lead riders. The idea that they couldnt avoid the barriers because they were too close and too fast are based on when the barriers start dropping.
Everyone who crossed after the red light came on should be getting a warning. Anyone after the barrier starts lowering should be getting disqualified and a fine, and anyone who crossed after the policeman stopped should be getting a ban and charged.
As for ‘it wasn’t really dangerous’,’he had 12 seconds’ that is stupid. And the next death of a cyclist jumping a barrier because he saw this clip should be on your conscience for condoning such stupid behaviour.
kevinmorice wrote:… the
Wow. A new leader in the stupidest post competition.
Trains don’t slow for level
Trains don’t slow for level crossings (do you have any idea of the stopping distance at 200mph? – here’s a clue it’s over a mile at 125mph) but this was probably near a station. High speed trains lose a lot of time if they have to slow down as it takes some time to get back up to speed.
The shocking thing about this is the leading motorcycles ignoring the warning lights on the approach to the crossing and I presume the race officials had only just gone through before the train.
Each of the professionals should have put their brakes on – they were so fortunate not to have fatalities.
Quote: (do you have any idea
Not relevant in this incident
Don Simon – just noticed your
Don Simon – just noticed your comment you need to revise your weight of trains to upwards of 500 tonnes – that’s the weight of a 125 train in the UK and TGVs are heavier. Each wheel has only the size of a 5p pence in contact with the rail (less on corners). Yes, it’s going to hurt at any speed. Near me the police chased a car that drove through a crossing with the barriers down – police car stopped at the barriers just as the train came through
Was that train travelling at
Was that train travelling at 200mph or was it a 200mph train travelling at a significantly slower speed?
don simon wrote:Was that
a 200mph train on a 60-75mph railway
(No subject)
Really not surprised to see
Really not surprised to see pros taking chances with their safety and with the rulebook. These guys give their lives over to bike racing and put their health and safety on the line regularly as part of their jobs. If they feel that jumping a level crossing could make the difference between winning and losing a major race like this can we really expect them to behave differently?
Marshalling was clearly poor here. When we are talking about racing at this level the organisers should be working with train companies to ensure that either a) the whole peloton can get through before the barriers drop or b) the whole peloton is held until the barriers rise. It seems like a big logistical task but at such a high-profile event it should be manageable.
If I was in the race I would
If I was in the race I would have checked the train timetables the night before, then during the race I would either slow the peloton down or speed it up and engineer the race so that as we approached the crossing I was out in front and just after I crossed, the train came through thus cutting everyone else off. Then I would simply go on to win the race.
Do I win surley’s competition?
See … if they’d had disk
See … if they’d had disk brakes fitted then they’d have been able to stop.