Driving instructors are the target audience of a new video that highlights cyclists’ road positioning and behaviour while riding that other road users need to be aware of. The intention that the knowledge will be passed onto learner drivers to help them understand the roads are for all, not just motorists.
Featuring Blaine Walsh, founder of the online video site driving-instructor.tv and Michael Frearson, director of the Association of Bikeability Schemes, among other things the video explains what the primary position is, and why many bike riders choose to take it.
Frearson says “it is vitally important” that driving instructors “understand what cyclists are doing and communicate that to their trainees.”
Walsh adds: “We have to be very aware of cyclists when we’re teaching. We have to be very aware of teaching learner drivers about cyclists, about what Bikeability are teaching, and bringing that into our lessons – the clues that cyclists give us and why they do certain things.
“Why do they cycle down the middle of the lane, what is that all about? And if we know that, we can pass that onto our pupils, and our pupils understand it. That’s really powerful and important.”
Frearson emphasises that when someone on a bike is “riding in the middle of the lane,” he or she is not “getting in the way” of a motorist.
Rather, the cyclist is a road user who reached that section of road first, and therefore have “priority” – a word that Walsh says is preferred to the term “right of way,” and he explains why that phrase is misleading and gives an incorrect sense of superiority to some drivers.
The video, which has been produced for the Bicycle Association, was filmed in Cambridge and once available on drivinginstructor.tv will have a potential audience of 20,000 driving instructors who in turn tutor 300,000-plus learner drivers.
44 thoughts on “Video tells driving instructors why cyclists ride in primary position”
This sounds like a very well
This sounds like a very well worthwhile effort.
Tell it to the AA
Me and
Tell it to the AA
Me and Blue-Van-Man Show AA Driving Instructor How to Pass a Cyclist… (GL12 PXR)
I contacted AA after this happened and got a poor response, I got the impression they don’t teach their driving instructors about cyclists and weren’t about to start.
kie7077 wrote:Tell it to the
Their president (Edmund King?) is actually very pro cyclist and pro cycle infrastructure (and wants to reduce tension between cyclists and motorists), and so I’m suprised by your post, unless they are seperate from the AA itself?
StoopidUserName wrote:kie7077
Edmund is great. Contact him directly via twitter. The AA driving school is absolutely part of the AA (as is the BSM as it happens)
StoopidUserName wrote:kie7077
Their president (Edmund King?) is actually very pro cyclist and pro cycle infrastructure (and wants to reduce tension between cyclists and motorists), and so I’m suprised by your post, unless they are seperate from the AA itself?— kie7077
The kindest thing to say about King is that he is a businessman and well aware of who pays his salary. He is usually good at talk, but actions don’t exist. His comments about accidents occurring because the Sun is visible show his true view of non motorised road users – essentially identical to that of all other ‘professional’ drivers.
Neither the AA or any other
Neither the AA or any other driving school for that matter train “their” drivers. They are all basically self employed and pay the company who’s logo is on the car a franchise fee. Last time I looked it was about £300 a week for the AA. All they do is get the pupils for you. Training is also independent and you can train yourself if you want or go to some crappy college who will happily take about 3 grand of anyone who has it, even though only about 10% only get through the 3 exams.
The whole farce is overseen by the DSA. They have to make a profit so the whole thing is just a moneyspinner. As for learning to drive all the pupil and their parents want is to get them through the test as cheaply as possible so they can forget all about the stupid rules and start to drive properly 😉
I contacted AA after this
I contacted AA after this happened and got a poor response, I got the impression they don’t teach their driving instructors about cyclists and weren’t about to start.
In future follow up poor responses by contacting CEO – probably a bit late for this one now though!
Do driving instructors not
Do driving instructors not bother with the Highway Code then? Not advanced enough for them?
Maybe if they all had to pass Bikeability 3 before being allowed to teach, they might pass on fewer cretinous behaviours.
Maybe driving instructor
Maybe driving instructor training should include Bikeability and Compulsory Basic Training.
This needs to be seen by most
This needs to be seen by most Driving Instructors in the Hull area who seem to consider cycle lanes with double yellows as ideal locations to hold discussions with their trainee’s and punishment passes as basic driving knowledge.
I have had some terrible
I have had some terrible passes by Learner Drivers… really disappointing. When I learnt to drive I don’t remember there being an absence of bike awareness, but I always knew to give cyclists plenty of room. Why is it so difficult now…?
fancynancy wrote:I have had
Did you ride a bike before your learnt to drive? Did you drive with the maybe subconscious idea of how would i like a driver to pass me, and then treated others the same way?
Now take a 17year old, who has never ridden a bike, has never ridden a moped, whose parents have spent the last 17 years cussing everytime they got held up by a horse/bike/tractor etc…
Take a driving instructor from the same mold as the kids parents.
How do you think the 17year old is going to behave?
I’d like the driving
I’d like the driving instructor who shouted at me that I was too late to see this as he allowed his pupil to pass close, within the zig-zags of a pedestrian crossing (on the approach give way side) AND within 50 meters of the junction I had signaled for and was in the middle of the lane to turn right for… three offences in one pass… good instruction, not…
I’ve been amazed with some
I’ve been amazed with some driving instructors and how little they know. I had to give a ‘lesson’ to one about how much space to leave me who had felt (until they saw my video) that the driver had left me sufficient passing space, when clearly they hadn’t.
Brilliant Video. Shame it was
Brilliant Video. Shame it was let down by both the Bikability Guy and the Driving Instructor(assuming that the car following and filming the bike) stopping in the middle of a Box junction. Jesus. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
Das wrote:Brilliant Video.
The cyclist and the driver were both perfectly correct. Highway Code Rule 174:
174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. [b]However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.[/b]
TimC340 wrote:Das
Ah cool, every days a school day. I always remembered you couldn’t stop at all in a box junction.
This is great but who’s going
This is great but who’s going to teach the millions of people that *already* drive and don’t realise that cyclists aren’t supposed to be hugging the kerb throughout their journey?
basif wrote:This is great but
IMO the Government needs to run Infomercials on TV to try to change attitudes. Along the lines of the Green Cross code ones of the 70’s.
Das wrote:basif wrote:This is
Probably best steering clear of dodgy celebrity presenters though.
http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Jimmy-Savile-book-children.jpeg
Das wrote:basif wrote:This is
I could not agree more. I had no idea that primary and secondary were part of a syllabus despite the fact that I use them all the time. Nor did I know there was a national cycling standard. Things have changed a lot in the 20 odd years since I passed my driving test.
fully agree.
fully agree.
basif wrote:This is great but
I’ve suggested this several times before, but I believe all drivers should be required to retake their theory test once a decade to renew their license.
I know many here will feel that drivers should retake the full test, but I take a pragmatic view of something that could be implemented at very low cost and deliver the greatest benefit.
My reasoning is that bad driving has two root causes, ignorance and attitude. The theory test forces drivers to revise, and study the updates to the highway code introduced since they passed their test. It would be an effective way of reducing ignorance.
However, the practical test is not an effective way of determining bad attitude. An aggressive and dangerous driver will simply behave whilst observed, before returning to their normal style. Attitude should be countered through enforcement.
*what* a shirt.
*what* a shirt.
andyp wrote:*what* a
It’s a new type of hiviz.
I had to go on a speed course
I had to go on a speed course about 5 years ago in lieu of some points on my licence. Shame on me. In those days such courses included a practical out on the road with an instructor.
As we came up behind a road cyclist, on a narrow country road, the instructor said to me that as the cyclist knew what he was doing and wasn’t wobbling, we should overtake him nice an close, even though I couldn’t see whether there was anything coming in the other direction.
It was shocking.
I give Driving instructors’
I give Driving instructors’ cars the same wide berth as I give Addison Lee taxis. Whether piloted by a learner (justifiable lack of experience) or the instructor (spend all day on the road, drive like they own it) they’re a bleedin’ menace.
Bill Plant, I’m looking at you.
OK, I haven’t watched the
OK, I haven’t watched the video (it’s a bit long for my short attention span) but I do feel that there is an in-built problem with driver instruction.
Most driving instructors are inevitably ‘car people’. Folks who like cars and driving and have made a career out of it. There’s nothing wrong with this per se (how many of us would like to make a living from somthing bike related) but it does mean that the people teaching new drivers are not typically individials who cycle regularally or who have much empathy with cyclists.
I’d like to see a system whereby learning to drive was a staggered process, the first stage being some sort of assesment of a persons ability to conduct themselves properly on a bicycle. This would be followed by a similar assesment on a motorcycle before finally being able to take a test in the car. As every driver would have to spend time on a bike and a motorbike in order to gain a car licence they would automatically be more aware of cyclists and motorcyclists.
Excellent vidio in my opinion
Excellent vidio in my opinion =D>
Positive collaboration can’t
Positive collaboration can’t be a bad thing. I’m going to link this to my driving instruction website. I hope my colleagues do the same. =D>
I like this video (more
I like this video (more examples of junctions, blind bends and pinch points would be nice), wish someone had shown it to the instructor / learner who did a close (< 1 foot) pass on me yesterday, then stopped at a junction with the back half of the car in the ASL box.
A big problem with driver
A big problem with driver perception and taking the primary, is when narrow cycle paint lanes are present, especially those that make the existing main lane, just wide enough for motorised traffic.
Drivers expect cyclists to be in them but they often create more dangers for cyclists (drains, debris, visability, left hooks, close passes at speed, door zone, cars on minor roads nudging out onto them, the list goes on …)
Until these token cycle lanes are removed (unlikely), drivers will be ‘justified’ in thinking we should be in them.
I was marvelling at a driving
I was marvelling at a driving instructor (TSR School of Motoring in Bristol/Bath, if you ride in the area and want to know who to avoid) – she was quite merrily posting in the ‘God I hate f**king cyclists using the road’ group, saying that she ‘hated all twat cyclists’ and that they should ‘ALL be shot on sight, esp twats in lycra’, whilst also calling cyclists ‘c**ts’. Just to be extra classy, she also posted a photo from that incident in Mexico where a drunk driver drove into a load of cyclists, killing one, claiming that it was her ‘favourite picture ever’.
Yes, this person is teaching drivers of the future. Awesome.
Mrs Toast wrote:I was
Have you got written evidence/examples of this attitude? If so I would be inclined to suggest making moves to have her removed from the Approved Driving Instructor register.
report said instructor to the
report said instructor to the DSA, and the the Register of Approved Driving Instructors
here’s the link to the
here’s the link to the group
https://www.facebook.com/pages/God-I-fucking-hate-cyclists-using-the-road/200926809928921
the offending poster has removed her comments after a number of people pointed out how hate-messages are liable to be taken very seriously.
A bit of Googling reveals she works for a driving school in Bristol:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/TSR-School-of-motoring/285163541635087
I can’t get onto FB right now
I can’t get onto FB right now but can’t someone flag the content of the page as offensive with FB?
Is there a hate page like this for every minority group? I’d be interested to see how many I fit into.
Facebook won’t give a crap.
Facebook won’t give a crap. There are a number of pages like this on there, and if a particular hatred doesn’t fit into their narrow scheme they will just send a template message back to you saying “this page / comment does not violate our terms of service”. They’re perfectly happy to make money off of hate speech click bait.
‘I can’t get onto FB right
‘I can’t get onto FB right now but can’t someone flag the content of the page as offensive with FB?’
“We reviewed the Page you reported for harassment and found that it doesn’t violate our Community Standards.”
Aye, that’s the one. Some
Aye, that’s the one. Some standards.
That was great. Very nice to
That was great. Very nice to see. =D>
What we really need is a
What we really need is a mandatory re-test every five years. Far too many drivers believe that having passed their test many years ago, they no longer need any instruction.How many people have looked at a Highway Code since they passed their test?
@northwalessaint
Quote:”What
@northwalessaint
[quote]”What we really need is a mandatory re-test every five years. Far too many drivers believe that having passed their test many years ago, they no longer need any instruction.How many people have looked at a Highway Code since they passed their test?”[quote]
No we don’t need that at all. First off it would be administratively massive as a task and therefore unlikely to work properly and secondly it would cost a huge amount of money to do. Thirdly it would piss off perfectly good safe drivers that would take it seriously and re-apply and pay the fee whilst by passing all the idiots who wouldn’t bother.
A lot of bad and dangerous driving hasn’t got anything at all to do with a the driver’s ability to drive safely, to control their vehicle or undertand the rules that apply. This is what the driving test tests. The most aggressive lunatic driver can simply pass that test standing on their head and blowing a trumpet.
What we need is the police to be far more active in monitoring and taking action againt errant motorists in the process of which they would inevitably find that particluar drivers appeared fairly often on their radar.
Acyive and committed roads policing would also have the effect of making sure that drivers understood that they would stand a pretty good chance of being pulled up for bad or aggressive driving. At the moment the chances are pretty slim so many think it’s worth the risk because the chances of being caught are small.
And you don’t even need to increase the penalties. If nearly everytime a driver exceeded the speed limit they stood even a 10% chance of incurring a fine and 3 points then speeding would practically cease. Many drivers would have 3 points within days. The slow learners would be looking at enough points for a ban in week or so.
However when people lose their licence through poor driving it ought to be considerably more difficult than it is to get it back. A mere extended test is not enough. It should be a full accredited points based course conducted over many months and at their own expense and with restrictions then imposed on the type and power of the vehicle they may drive for a period of time after that.
Like any blanket proposal such as mandatory retests, it only really affects the people that take rules and compliance seriously. It doesn’t impact the bad drivers. They just have to drive sensibly for an hour for the test and then carry on like before.
Leave the good drivers alone go after the bad ones.
I did actually report her to
I did actually report her to the DSA, including quotes and screenshots. No reply one week on. :/
And Facebook won’t take the group down, because people bragging about terrorising and expressing violent threats and fantasies about other road users is OK. It’s not offensive, like a woman breast feeding…