Hi Folks,
let me say at the outset that I'm a big Campagnolo fan. No question. Their levers and derailleurs have lasted me really well, and are (for me) dead easy to use and built to last. I'm talking (fairly) old-school mechanical 10 speed here.
I have an ancient steel audax bike, with a 20+ year old Veloce rear mech. and Racing triple front (I don't think many racers ever used a triple, but hey, whatever); my "lightweight" bike has 10s Record front and rear. They all perform flawlessly, and who doesn't love that thumb button where you swing onto a downhill and zoom up 5 gears in a trice.
But, and this is a big 'but'... Campagnolo are in the goddamn dark ages when it comes to cassettes. Both my 'shopping' bike and my lightweight have triple front chainrings, because our Italian friends think that their entire customer base deserves nothing more helpful than close ratio cassettes. A bit like all car drivers having to stick with racing gearboxes, instead of what comes with their Nissan Micra.
I got round it on the shopper/audax by using an aftermarket 10-28, to replace the pathetic 11-26 offered by Campag., and a 24 tooth inner ring. Needless to say, Shimano (this is pre-SRAM road groupsets) at the time already offered a 10-28, including a Dura Ace option. I used the Campagnolo 11-26 on my lightweight, with a 26 tooth inner ring. Even with triples on the front, the top gears are pretty low; easy to spin out on the downhills.
And I'm sure y'all are thinking "24 to 28, that's proper low". Not if you regularly ride hills of 25% and steeper it isn't. And try it with a bike (with panniers and a full load) weighing 22.5kg. And being the wrong side of 58. I've seen sportives where dozens of Mamils (folks 20 years younger than me) are walking up casual 10% gradients, clickety clackety, and they all have 50/34 with cassettes around 11-31, maybe 11-34. Your standard issue on a modern mid-range carbon job.
Campagnolo's idea of being useful back then was to offer a 13-29 which (as I'm sure you'll immediately spot) gives a smaller range than an 11-26, but requires (if you don't want to spin out) larger chainrings. Pure genius. Less range, more metal, more weight. Nobel prize to that designer.
So, here we are in the present, and someone invented Gravel. Campagnolo responded with the Ekar, which looks like one of the better offroad groupsets, but not one I'd want to use on the road. Gaps between lower ratios too big, too much chain wear. And still nobody can do the arithmetic. What's the point of making a 10-44 if a 9-42 weighs less and has a bigger gear range? But they did embrace the idea of really small sprockets, so my hopes were raised. The difference between 10-33 and 11-34 is significant in road terms. 9-30 would be better still.
And now we have modern SRAM groupsets, with a proper 10-33 cassette. But it's wireless only... and I still want mechanical. Reasons are many and varied, but include doing lots of long lonely hilly rides in the middle of nowhere (no backup whatsoever, frequently no phone signal): wireless is less reliable, heavier, much more expensive, and I still want that Campagnolo thumb lever.
Yes, yes, I know you personally have done thousands of rides, and it's never failed, and you don't mind charging it regularly, and you don't mind the extra weight, and you're rolling in cash. I'm happy for you.
All I want for Christmas is for Campagnolo to wake up, smell the bleeding coffee, and offer me a 12-speed 10-33 (or 9-30)) Super Record road cassette and an SR rear mech that'll cope with the chain slack. I won't even need their chainrings: I can get something from White Industries or whoever (still cheaper than the 29/45 EPS chainset). Then I'd have a decent "hill killer" gear range with double chainrings which, trust me, are a whole lot easier to deal with than triples.
Yes, it is a big ask, especially the rear mech. It might need another 5mm in length adding to the jockey cage: what we used to call a 'long cage', back in the day. And a new jockey cage isn't a whole new rear mech, just a bolt on component. They already did it once when they introduced the 11-34 cassette.
OK, polemic over, hope all you Campagnolo fans out there had a laugh. And just think how much of that potential market is going down the plughole because team Italy are a bit slow to catch on...
Be careful,
John M.
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16 comments
Give a Wolftooth Roadlink a try if you want to fit a big cassette
Personally I have always liked the Campag ratios. My gravel/ commuter/ winter steel bike has a 10 speed 12-26 paired with a Centaur UT Compact 50-34. I really dont buy into the idea that 50-12 is easy to spin out - in my experience it only comes into play downhill and I would be doing in excess of 30mph before I spin out (which is plenty for me on a heavy bike with luggage)
In my summer bike I run a 13-29 and a 53-39. Again, never spin out in top, and 39-29 has done me fine on the short but sharp climbs in Rutland.
Unfortunately no amount of gear range negates the need for fitness and strength, and all drivetrains require some compromise.
Thats mostly not true, you have the gear range there of a highly enthusiastic hobbyist or even a Category racer. Arguably Campy's entire target market these days.
Spinning for winning on climbs has been the norm in touring with triples for ages. It's only recently in the rush to 2x and 1x some of the advantages have been lost/forgotten about, even as 32/34 t cogs have become mainstream on race bikes.
Its telling that the 34t cog has been in the Shimano product line (on the MTB and Touring side) since at least 8 speed.
Maybe
https://www.miche.it/en/products/cassettes-sprockets/road/supertype-11-ca
helps?
I tend to use Miche cassettes, the only issue is that they are not compatible with the N3W + adapter freehub that makes the new 13s hubs accept 10, 11, 12 speed cassettes
Feel better after writing that?
Less metal is not always better, very small sprockets are much less efficient, I don't remember the physics of it right now, but 9 is notably worse than 11.
A random quote from stackexchange: "using a larger chain ring and larger sprocket (53/11 vs 48/10) gives a saving of 6-7W" for a 250 W rider, 8-10W at 400 W, and obviously the difference is even higher for 9 teeth... otoh of course, they are lighter.
Not sure if this any help but Simon Warren post this on Strava today. Campag 11speed mechanical 12-32 I think.
a lot of comments about the short cage.
Ekar works really well for road riding, I've done thousands of km on mine.
+1 for Ekar, it's brilliant, huge range, and still has that solid Campag shifting feel. Here's my SR 52/36 x 12-29 compared to my Ekar 40 x 9-42. The big jumps are in the highest gears , and in the lowest ratios that you hardly ever use. The mid range is actually *closer* than the SR equivalent.
Source is https://kstoerz.com/gearcalc/compare/
I think you're going to have to get over Campagnolo if they're not going to fulfil your mechanical & ratio needs and consider Shimano for their wide range of reliable, good value drivetrain components.
Campag have never offered 11-26 in 10s (or any other cassette).
They did offer 11-25 which, for the then-target audience of the racing fraternity, alongside of the 11-23 cassette, was fine for it's intended purpose.
At the same time, they offered 12-26 and have also more latterly offered 12-27 and 12-30 alongside of 13-29 (12-30 has since been discontinued as 10s demand has fallen significantly).
The rise of the sportif rider wishing to emulate their heros but without the power to weight ratio of a ProTour rider and changes in the way that riders in general ride, has led to the slow adoption of wider and wider range cassettes and the rise of the gravel market has bought different options in gearing - but the fact is, the particular requirements of every single rider on the planet are never going to be met.
You're absolutely right: I meant 11-26
JM
;tldr
"i don't like that Campagnolo doesn't design its product range uniquely for my very specific requirements."
[I think - I couldn't be bothered to do more than skim it either.]
My very specific requirements, meaning I want to ride up steep hills, and use lightweight, reliable, easy to use mechanical derailleurs with a decent gear range...
Yes, I can see that's a tough ask. I expect I'm the only person who ever wanted that.
JM