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20 mph speed assistance limit for E-bikes?
Interesting little 10 minute vid arguing for the assistance cutout speed to be raised.
Very well presented on a bike ride around London.
For me it does not convince, since the case is based around wanting faster journeys when the main delayer is stop-start not speed, to 'avoid blocking cycle lanes' for faster people on normal bikes are actually routinely slower at about 10mph average, and so on.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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74 comments
20mph limit would be safer given that lack of infrastructure puts most riders on the road.
I feel much safer at 20mph on the road bike than I do at 15mph on the cargo bike. You get overtaken much less at 20 than 15, and are much more closely matched to motor vehicle speeds in urban areas.
I can't see an argument to keep eBikes at 15.5mph when cars can do 20 or 30, tbh.
I'm more of a 20kmph type in this one but my reasons are mostly with the expectation that these *will* be used cycle infra. Which is the exception in the UK ATM.
The "20mph (or more) ebikes on streets and roads only" might possibly work better.
However I can see another counter as being "most cycle crashes are single- vehicle. Now add another 5 or 10mph to many of those. That's going to have worse consequences overall than the "not feeling so threatened by motorists approaching from the rear" positive. (Extra speed won't have protective effect in other car- bike encounters).
Same doesn't affect cars to quite the same degree because their *occupants* are much better protected. Obviously extra speed makes it worse for those on the outside.
I think it's a pretty weak counter. It assumes that everyone will pedal everywhere at 20mph regardless of the situation.
If some of those who'll be riding new 20mph+ ebikes will be the people who're now driving cars* I'd say it's a pretty strong one!
* A large fraction of whom are reluctant to do less than the minimum speed limits, regardless of the conditions.
But eBikes are not limited to 15.5mph assistance. The limit applies only to those machines which benefit from the same light legislative touch that is applied to unassisted bicycles. If you want more assistance it is available, but naturally it comes with different legislation since it becomes too much of a stretch for the legislation designed to fit ordinary bicycles.
I feel much safer at 20mph on the road bike than I do at 15mph on the cargo bike
Maybe you do, but it's not going to matter. E-bikes will be power-assisted up to the present legal speed- if you want higher speeds, go illegal or get a motorcycle
I live in Switzerland, and here there are two types of e-bikes. The first type is limited to 25 kph, and looks just like a normal bike, the second "speed pedelec" is limited to 45 kph, had a small number plate and rear view mirror.
I was using a speed pedelec to commute 27 km each way into Geneva daily, by car this was a 25-55 min journey as traffic could be grim. By e-bike it was bang on 32 mins every time thanks to good segregated cycle lanes most of the way. I did sometimes get the feeling of being a durney rider as some of the speedier real cyclists would slip stream me.
I should mention, you pay about CHF60 (about GBP50) per year for your number plate/registration. All Swiss residents have to carry personal liability insurance which covers stuff like bike accidents, and e-bikes if legal would be covered. This is normally part of your house insurance and costs about GBP50 for the whole family.
In city traffic, it is rare to be overtaken at 45 kph, but it can feel pretty fast. You do see e-bike crashes (normally middle aged men statistically) where people have clearly over estimated their ability/braking power/grip. But generally it works pretty well with normal bikes, and traffic. The general standard of driving here is much more considerate towards cyclists with very few bad actors on both sides.
I read this and smiled and thought that would me. Then I calculated the numbers and realised otherwise.
I'm sure you're doing yourself an injustice, according to this:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/close-need-benefit-draft...
if the 45 km/h rider is a fair-sized unit and you tuck in right behind you are only going to need about 112 watts to keep up, for me (not exactly a mouse at 80kg) that's about the power needed for 25 km/h riding solo.
Thanks for the information, I clearly need a trip to Switzerland to put the theory into practice.
I definitely qualify as "fair sized unit" - six foot two, and when I started riding the e-bike I was 110 kg / 17 stone.
I did the 27 km each way most days on the e-bike, after a year I switched to a normal bike. Two years after that I completed one of the seven day Haute Route events in the Pyrenees. I did a load of dieting and other lifestyle changes as well, but I am pretty sure I would not have been brave enough to do the initial commute without the e-bike. And by the end I was clearly putting in a fair amount of effort myself.
I was always happy to see riders on my tail, it is pretty flat as well, so it wasn't only the ultra elites.
I must be doing something wrong as I've never not needed to change once I've got to work.
I've a Bosch motor and it assists by boosting my effort ... so if I get to work hot and sweaty does that mean I'm just a fat old git whose working too hard ... ???
I don't see the case to be honest. And marginal gains from the speed are far outweighed by the additional risks to pedestrians and other vulnerable groups that e-bikes mix with.
Ah, but she has a counter to that argument. Her e-bike whilst usually considerably heavier then a "normal" bike, is not as big or heavy as a car and they mix with pedestrians and other vulnerable groups.....
My regular e-bike journey is 6 miles (each way). That takes around 30 minutes, if I drive instead then it's usually 20 minutes (but sometimes more like 25 - 30 minutes). So the time it takes me on the bike is already close enough that it's not a significant factor in deciding whether to ride or drive.
What makes the biggest difference to me is safe, direct routes and somewhere to park the bike at the other end.
the time it takes me on the bike is already close enough that it's not a significant factor in deciding whether to ride or drive
E-bikes are, of course, the Work of the Devil, but if we set that prejudice aside this statement supporting the present e-bike assistance speed limit is welcome. Legal high powered e-bikes that don't burn your house down and which are entitled to use cycle infra are unwelcome to at least some of us
So the time it takes me on the bike is already close enough that it's not a significant factor in deciding whether to ride or drive
And it's not going to happen anyway. The top speeds will be limited to illegal bikes.
20mph would be nice, but I'd rather it be accepted that I can walk around the supermarket with my bike using it as a trolley rather than have the faff and lack of security of leaving it outside, e-bike or analogue bike.
Bike parking is still one of the biggest issues about using a bike for practical purposes.
Time for this?
That'll have you banned from "supermarket sweep" like that!
Illegal - only one brake
From my experience, there will be 5 brakes on that.
You would have to be off your trolley to ride that!, Or perhaps on your trolley 🤔, no!, I'll get me coat !
Some places are apparently quite accommodating if you ask nicely. I met a chap who said his local supermarkets would allow him in on his folder. However he did only have one leg so you might want to have a medical reason when you ask.
Not sure it's ever going to be that desirable to allow bikes in supermarkets unless they drastically increase the size of the aisles. What is needed is sensibly located bike parking; my local Sainsbury's has the bike park right by the main entrance and in full view of the security guard station, never had nor even heard of a bike being stolen from there in 20 years.
My wife locked her bike outside a local city centre shopping centre, right next to the main entrance and in full view of the security guard station and the two guards on duty at the time.
The diligent guards were more than happy to give her full details of the theft to pass on to the police when she went to reclaim it at the end of her trip, as they had watched the whole thing happen.
A friend had a similar experience with her bike being stolen at a sports centre where the guards claimed that they would lose their jobs if they intervened with anything outwith the parameters of the building (no idea if they were telling the truth). Obviously any parking is worthless if nobody polices it at all; the guards at my Sainsbury's seem very good, one of them came out once when I was wrestling with a lock that wouldn't open to check whether the bike was actually mine (and then offered to fetch some WD-40 to see if it would free it up) and another time a neighbour returned to find her bike wasn't there, turned out she had forgotten to lock it and the guard had gone out and brought it inside for safekeeping.
Sadly, the guards probably are telling truth. A long time ago, the first thing we taught them was to not lay a hand on a shop lifter. In the store, the goods are not stolen yet (even if hidden in a bag or stuffed up a jumper). Outside the store, they are not insured and may find themselves on an assault charge.
Erm... So what are they being paid for, exactly?
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