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Tubeless tumble

I've just suffered the pain (to bike, helmet, body and ego) due to a sudden deflation while cornering on a new set of wheels (Enve 4.5 SES) with tubeless tyres (Schwalbe pro one) fitted.  I was running my tyres at 80kpi so I was a bit surprised when the bike manufacturer suggested it was overinflation.  Even if that's at the top end I don't think it's an acceptable outcome.  Keen to know if anyone has experienced or come across this type of problem with a tubeless set-up.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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16 comments

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janusz0 | 6 years ago
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> 80kpi

When I read that I thought you meant 80 kPa, which would only be overinflation if you had a fat bike!

I hope that you're over the worst of the road rash and bruises by now. 

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Judge dreadful | 6 years ago
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One of the main reasons for using tubeless tyres on a road bike, is so that you can run lower pressures than you can with a traditional tube in tyre set up, without getting pinch flats. However I really don’t like tubeless with a road bike. On a mountain bike, they are a fabulous idea. You can run low pressures, increasing comfort on very rough / uneven surfaces, and because of the much lower pressure ( relative to a road bike) if you do get an intrusion puncture, the loss of pressure you get as it seals is not as much of a problem as it is with the higher pressure road set up. I’ve had a couple of proper brown trouser moments on a tubeless road set up, where I’ve got an intrusion puncture, not noticed the pressure drop, then taken a corner. Cue lots of squirming and swearing. Because the MTB tyres are nearly always much wider, and start off with a lower pressure anyway, and you tend not to be going through most corners as fast on a MTB, it’s not as much of an issue. I would rather not run tubeless on a road bike, the gains don’t outweigh the pains.

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CXR94Di2 replied to Judge dreadful | 6 years ago
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Judge dreadful wrote:

One of the main reasons for using tubeless tyres on a road bike, is so that you can run lower pressures than you can with a traditional tube in tyre set up, without getting pinch flats. However I really don’t like tubeless with a road bike. On a mountain bike, they are a fabulous idea. You can run low pressures, increasing comfort on very rough / uneven surfaces, and because of the much lower pressure ( relative to a road bike) if you do get an intrusion puncture, the loss of pressure you get as it seals is not as much of a problem as it is with the higher pressure road set up. I’ve had a couple of proper brown trouser moments on a tubeless road set up, where I’ve got an intrusion puncture, not noticed the pressure drop, then taken a corner. Cue lots of squirming and swearing. Because the MTB tyres are nearly always much wider, and start off with a lower pressure anyway, and you tend not to be going through most corners as fast on a MTB, it’s not as much of an issue. I would rather not run tubeless on a road bike, the gains don’t outweigh the pains.

 

To counter your dislike of tubeless on a road bike.  I think they're fantastic.  Saved myself from crashing on a fast switchback mountain descent.  Tyre suffered big cut and stayed inflated until i got to the bottom.  If tbat was a clincher with tube, sudden deflation could of seen me crash at 40mph

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Team EPO | 6 years ago
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I know my tubeless Mtn bike set up can berp if the pressures are too low and then the next corner can be super sketchy!

Also your tyre sealant will dry out so has to be topped up every 3 months or so depending on the climate.

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check12 | 6 years ago
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Lennard Zinn did an article on pressures for tyres iirc and high pressures in wide tyres will blow the rim out, hence enve being cautious with the psi range. 

https://www.velonews.com/2017/03/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq-science-ti...

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BBB | 6 years ago
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The MAX pressure limit for your rims is 80PSI for a 28mm tyre. Bear in mind that 28mm Schwalbe Pros on a 25mm internal hookless rims like yours will effectively measure 33mm or more in width. Running such wide tyres at 80PSI IMO reduces the safety margin to the minimum but also won't offer you ANY performance advantages, quite the opposite. 

 

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Hendo's | 6 years ago
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Thanks for all your comments, I appreciate them.  To clarify the SES 4.5 are AR disc model (//enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar/ ) and are for tubeless tyres, sorry should have specified.  No sign of puncture.  The bike was from one of Australia's top custom manufacturers.  I'm getting a really wide range of views from cycling buddies, it seems the hookless system isn't a favourite yet.  I'm a bit bummed that the pressure I used was in spec for the tyre but apparently not the wheel.  Yes, I should have looked at the wheel specs but I reckon the bike manufacturer also should alert you to new tech specs.  Anyway, I've got a 4-6 week injury break to keep reading cycling chat sites and work whether to take the $ pain and toss them.

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Nat Jas Moe | 6 years ago
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I agree with those above, the standard SES 4.5 are NOT tubeless ready, ENVE does sell a conversion kit:

ROAD AND GRAVEL TUBELESS KIT

SKU# 000-1000-374 - SES 2.2 Tubeless Kit

which will fit the SES 4.5AR so not sure it even fits the wheels you have. 

It sounds like the tyre rolled off the rim when you went round the corner. I use the same tyres and have had a total lost of air from the tyre, but ithe tyre stayed firmly on my tubless shimano ultegra tubeless ready rims and I stayed upright, well as uprght as you can going round a corner.

Should have added once I pulled over and removed offening article from tyre, sealant sealed and I was able to reinflated and got home no problems. Tyre still holding pressure too. smiley

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madcarew | 6 years ago
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I would have thought that if the manufacturer has been contacted and suggested overinflation, then they would also have noted whether they were tubeless ready or not?

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fenix | 6 years ago
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They're either tubular or standard rims I think ? 

So not tubeless ? 

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BBB | 6 years ago
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The rim profile doesn't look tubeless friendly at all with its sloping bead seat. 

I believe that in case of a more serious puncture and resulting air loss, the tyre beads wouldn't stay "locked" and the system would deflate instantly. 

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David Arthur @d... | 6 years ago
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Firstly, hope you're okay?

According to the Enve website (https://enve.com/products/ses-4-5/) those rims aren't tubeless, so that'll be where your problem is. Tubeless rims have a specific shape to ensure the tubeless tyre can't do what happened to you and pop off the rim. 

Those tyres have a 70 - 110 psi pressure rating so 80  should have been fine. https://www.schwalbe.com/en-GB/road-reader/schwalbe-pro-one.html

 

 

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AfterPeak | 6 years ago
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Looking online they are all clincher wheels although there is a video where someone has set them up as tubeless and Enve sell a tubeless conversion kit

https://enve.com/products/road-tubeless-kit/

 

5.6 are tubeless ready!

https://bikerumor.com/2018/08/23/enve-ses-5-6-spins-up-smarter-faster-tu...

 

I suspect your rim tape was not tubeless rim tape and burst at the spoke hole (have a look).

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SurreyHiller | 6 years ago
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I'd second the question on are they tubeless ready?

A cycling weekly review (first I found, dated 2016) had a negative point that they weren't tubeless ready.  

 

Tubeless rims have a different bead catching profile that the tyre in effect clicks into making it much more difficult to burp air out of the tyre.

MTB can 'get away with it' to a point, as there aren't the high pressures involved, but I wouldn't go near a non tubeless rim on a road bike without a tube...

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CXR94Di2 | 6 years ago
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You describe new wheels.  It is most likely you suffered from a greasy new tyre, from the release agent not having been scrubbed off.  Schwalbe pro ones are known to be very greasy for a few hundred miles

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peted76 | 6 years ago
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I suspect it wasn't set up right, no offence but you've described exactly  what shouldn't happen running tubeless no 'sudden deflation' is one of the benefits over a tube 'wot pops, suddenly'.

Did you have any sealant in the tyres?

How many miles have you been run the tyres/wheels in their current set up?

Also is the ENVE  4.5 SES wheelset even tubeless compatible, it doesn't look like it....

 

 

 

 

 

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