Trek-Segafredo’s reaction to Quinn Simmons’ comments finally landed late Wednesday evening UK time, and he has been stood down from racing. Here is the statement. See our initial article below.
Trek-Segafredo response to public comments made by Quinn Simmons pic.twitter.com/ygqYjy8FWz
— Trek-Segafredo (@TrekSegafredo) September 30, 2020
“Racism is unacceptable. Period.” That was the reaction this evening of Trek-Segafredo after its rider Quinn Simmons replied on Twitter to a journalist who had asked supporters of US President Donald Trump to unfollow her on the social network with the word “Bye,” with the pro cyclist, who is white, adding an emoji of a waving brown hand.
The 19-year-old American was responding to a tweet from the Dutch journalist and commentator José Been, who had written a tweet this morning saying: “My dear American friends, I hope this horrible presidency ends for you. And for us as (former?) allies too.
“If you follow me and support Trump, you can go. There is no excuse to follow or vote for the vile, horrible man.”
Bye ??
— Quinn Simmons (@QuinnSimmons9) September 30, 2020
Been’s tweet followed last night’s presidential debate in Cleveland, Ohio between Republican Trump and Democratic candidate Joe Biden in which the president failed to distance himself from white supremacists despite repeated requests to clarify his position by moderator Chris Wallace of Fox News.
At one point, Trump urged the group Proud Boys – described by the Anti-Defamation League as being “Misogynistic, Islamophobic, transphobic and anti-immigration,” with “some members [espousing] white supremacist and anti-Semitic ideologies,” to “stand down and stand by.”
Simmons confirmed in a subsequent tweet that he is a Trump supporter.
That’s right ??
— Quinn Simmons (@QuinnSimmons9) September 30, 2020
Reaction on Twitter to Simmons’ tweets ranges from some urging the team to terminate his contract, others suggesting that as a high-profile athlete he should be given media training to help him understand his responsibilities, and rare messages of support.
The team itself has said it is taking the issue “very seriously” and that it will make a public statement “shortly.”
Pending that full statement, the team has said to a number of people expressing concern about Simmons’ tweets today that “Trek-Segafredo does not condone comments or actions from its riders that add to divisive conversations.”
It added: “The team will work with Quinn to help him understand the appropriate tone of conversation an athlete in his position should maintain.”
The 19 year old from Colorado signed for the UCI WorldTour team on a two-year contract after winning the junior road race at the world championships in Yorkshire last year, a title he still holds with the category not raced at this year’s event in Imola.
He was a key support rider in the team’s spring classics campaign earlier this year before the season was interrupted by the coronavirus pandemic, and earlier this month finished second overall at the Tour de Hongrie.
He raced the Fleche Wallonne today, coming home in 135th place, and according to Procyclingstats.com his forthcoming programme includes the three remaining Monuments of the season – Sunday’s Liege-Bastogne-Liege and, later in October, the Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix.
103 thoughts on “Updated: “Racism is unacceptable” – Trek-Segafredo reacts to rider’s pro-Trump tweet”
He was trying to be funny.
He was trying to be funny. That is all.
Been was incredibly nasty in her comments on Trump and obviously not interested in free speech if she doesn’t want followers or to interact with Trump supporters.
I missed the fracas, only
I missed the fracas, only what’s up here. In what way was Been incredibly nasty?
Oh FFS not another someone
Oh FFS not another someone talking about free speech and clearly not knowing what it means.
Asking people to unfollow you is not an attack on free speech just as someone beng banned on a platform isn’t an attack on free speech.
Some examples of attacks on free speech include unlawful imprisonment, extraordinary rendition, car bombing, murder and dismemberment, all of which we’ve seen over the past few years to both journalists and citizens.
People who think being asked to unfollow someone is akin to your voiced being silenced by death or imprisonment really need to re-evaluate their life.
If the government banned you
If the government banned you from using the telephone, the internet and the postal service would your freedom of speech have been curtailed?
It would, yes. Being banned
It would, yes. Being banned from a privately-owned platform such as Facebook or Twitter wouldn’t though. Being asked to voluntarily unfollow one user on one platform would be even less.
Simmons has done nothing wrong here though: he’s entitled to support whoever he wants and to express that within the law without his employer getting on his back. In any case, it should hardly be newsworthy that a 19-year-old sportsman mightn’t have the strongest grip on political issues.
So if the privately owned
So if the privately owned telephone network or the privately owned postal service or the privately owned internet provider decided they didn’t like your opinion you’d be fine with them cutting you off?
You seem to be deliberately ignoring quite how important those platforms are. Facebook is literally the world’s largest communication platform. Being banned from there limits a person’s ability to communicate with others significantly.
It is directly akin to being cut off from the postal service or the telephone service.
I agree that asking people to unfollow you doesn’t limit someone’s freedom of speech. It is a bit of pointless grandstanding though.
I don’t think he is being cut
I don’t think he is being cut off. A particular journo blanket asked for supporters of trump to unfollow. He responded on the same platform that he would.
I was responding to
I was responding to @Billymansell’s comment about people being banned generally.
Well if people looked at ToS
Well if people looked at ToS everytime they signed up for something, you will probably find lots of things that show you what you will and won’t get banned for.
You point me to someone who has been banned from Facebook or Twitter and did not violate those ToS in some way and then we can talk. Most stories I see of it is usually racist, sexist, mysoginistic, harmful conspiracy theories (especially with Covid), or literal calls to harm people.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/got-locked-twitter-having-wrong-opinion-covid/
There you go.
Well I haven’t got a telgraph
Well I haven’t got a telgraph subscription to read that and as of 25 mins ago she is still twittering.
Basic summary: Suspended from
Basic summary: Suspended from Twitter for sending a tweet in favour of the herd immunity approach.
How does that fit with your previous proclamation?
And she is not suspended
And she is not suspended anymore, less then a day later. For clarification I said BANNED from the platform examples.
With millions and millions of tweets and facebook posts and Youtube videos happening daily, monitoring and remedial suspensions are all initially automated. Certain phrases etc probably set it off. On review she was reinstated. I’ve seen covid conspiracy debunking videos have the same thing happen.
Personally I still find the views she espouses on it distasteful and totally without any real thought then I want to stay rich if possible and if people die, oh well. It is couched in caring for people and their careers but at the cost of people deemed not worthy to be around because they are old and / or sick.
Weapons grade whataboutery
Weapons grade whataboutery going on here
“It is directly akin to being
“It is directly akin to being cut off from the postal service or the telephone service.”
Don’t be daft. Its just not, it’s just a platform for polishing a social CV and republishing other peoples unconsidered views.
Coming off Facebook was one of the best decisions I ever made. Try it – you’ll be much happier.
Does Facebook allow you to
Does Facebook allow you to send written messages to people all over the world?
Does Facebook allow you to call people all over the world?
It is the cheapest and most effective communication platform that most people have access to.
Removing access to it is therefore very similar to removing access to the postal service or telephone service.
I’m not on Facebook btw.
There are always alternatives
There are always alternatives to use, even if you have to work harder to get the result you require. But why would you? Do you get anything of value from broadcasting trivia to strangers?
Anyway, I applaud your choice to avoid Twitface. You appear to be wiser than most.
You can email anyone you like
You can email anyone you like free of charge without enriching Mr Zuckerberg or sharing your stuff with him. Works quite nicely really.
Email, sounds new and
Email, sounds new and exciting.
Will have to check it out.
Thanks…
In short: freedom of speech
In short: freedom of speech is not freedom from the social consequences of such speech.
If the social consequences
If the social consequences end up with his employer ending his contract to avert criticism, it’s not free speech. It wouldn’t be fair for a bigoted team-owner to fire someone for supporting Biden, so it wouldn’t be fair for Trek to fire Simmons over this.
That would depend on what he
That would depend on what he is fired for. If there is a clause in his contract to not espouse personal political views on SM, he would be in breach of that, and so the co can take disciplinary. Of course he hasn’t been prevented from saying anything, or imprisoned, beaten, or disappeared. His company is free to terminate the contract, he is free to keep espousing his views.
As it happens, He isn’t being fired as far as I can see
“Trek-Segafredo does not condone comments or actions from its riders that add to divisive conversations.”
It added: “The team will work with Quinn to help him understand the appropriate tone of conversation an athlete in his position should maintain.”
“Regrettably, team rider
“Regrettably, team rider Quinn Simons made statements online that we feel are divisive, incendiary, and detrimental to the team, professional cycling, its fans, and the positive future we hope to help create for the sport,” the team said.
“In response, he will not be racing for Trek-Segafredo until further notice.”
So at this stage he’s on the
So at this stage he’s on the bench. Not fired
Brauchsel wrote:
If a team decides to take a stance against Biden, then it would make sense for them to get rid of their public facing people who are making known their views supporting him. Not fair, but that’s what marketing is about. It’s not so much infringing free speech, but ensuring that brands can control their image. It’d be a different case if they got rid of non-public facing staff for privately held political views – they’d presumably have to demonstrate either a conflict of interest or bringing the brand into disrepute.
“If a team decides to take a
“If a team decides to take a stance against Biden, then it would make sense for them to get rid of their public facing people who are making known their views supporting him”
In the UK at least, a business whose business wasn’t directly political would (I think) lose a wrongful dismissal case if it did so. These are odd times indeed, but expressing one’s support for the candidate of a mainstream political party (indeed, the incumbent) shouldn’t be the sort of thing that damages your career.
Its a tough call on whether his actions damage the brand, or more precisely how much weight the employer can fairly put on that. Keeping him on the books will bring Trek into disrepute for some people, undoubtedly. The legal (and I think correct) test is whether the brand suffers in the eyes of a reasonable, fair-minded observer. Ignoring the apparent paucity of those these days, I don’t think it does. Supporting Trump is something millions of people apparently do, and nobody should think worse of a company because one of its employees does.
Let’s keep this in proportion
Let’s keep this in proportion: He’s being punished for appearing to support the Proud Boys, more than Trump. And, much like Moscon, I expect him to keep his job because he’s talented.
This is not a freedom of speech issue – Been was taking a political position and looking for a reaction. If you don’t agree with a social media post, ignore it. Otherwise you get sucked into a pointless slanging match which makes you look stupid. One day Simmons will learn this.
Trek and Segafredo will continue to employ him for as long as they judge that his potential for the good publicity that comes from his results outweighs any negatives he brings.
All employers do this, and therefore most of us have clauses in our employment contracts to make it easy for them to fire us if we choose to behave like idiots.
If you don’t agree with a
There is a certain amount of irony here…
In all of this, it might have
In all of this, it might have been a because of being a Trump, but I do wonder if using the black hand was the thing that took it the step too far for Trek, especially after the whole incident was because of Trump not denouncing white supremecists (not the first time and certainly won’t be the last as proven in his follow up interview yesterday). As with anything texted, any “joke” doesn’t translate well.
Been has every right to state she doesn’t want people who support someone who shows so many facist and racist views to follow her. That is not being interested in free speach, that is not being interested in vile viewpoints. I still don’t see how you think the comments Been is reported to have said are incredibly nasty though. Most of the world believe he is a nasty man, and his utterances mostly prove it. Do you believe Kim Jong Un is a nasty man? If she had said “Kim Jong Un is a disgrace to the people of North Korea, I hope his rule soon ends. Anyone who supports what he is doing can go as their is no excuse for this vile man and his regime”, would you have said she had been incredibly nasty?
So what if Simmons supports
So what if Simmons supports Trump, isn’t he allowed to think for himself? Yes Trump is a complete weapons grade cockwomble who should never have been voted into office but there you go, hopefully in a few months he will be evicted from the White House with a “Don’t let the door hit you on the Arse on the way out” shout from all that have had to deal with him for the last few years… I don’t agree with Trek if they terminate his contract for this. The coloured emoji isn’t a good choice but we all make mistakes and at most fine should help teach him the error of his ways.
People are allowed to think
People are allowed to think for themselves. If they reach reprehensible conclusions, there will be consequences for that. Personally, I think a bit of controversy is no less than this guy deserves.
He has a right to vote for
He has a right to vote for whoever he wants.
Your employer should not be able to fire or punish you for stating your support for a legal political party.
That’s absolute insanity.
Rich_cb wrote:
Depends on the job.
If you’re one of the public faces of a company, then there’s a high expectation of not bringing the brand into disrepute. I think in this case there’s the problem that being a Trump supporter is seen as being more than just a political belief and is tied up with racism and white supremacism which is not really a good look.
He can still vote for whoever he wants, but he may have trouble with his chosen career if he’s vocal about it.
The problem with that view is
The problem with that view is that it is incompatible with democracy.
You can’t have a 2 party system where support for one party will see you lose your livelihood.
That’s insane.
Rich_cb wrote:
That’s not what’s happening here, though. He’s publicly supporting one specific person rather than a party and I doubt there’d be any reaction if he’d just put across pro-republican views. The problem is that he’s supporting Trump and arguably racist and divisive politics. If he’d communicated some non-Trump based racist or sexist public comments, then he’d be in a similar position, so it’s not just a partisan view that’s causing the problem.
Trump is the republican party
Trump is the republican party nomination for president and the de facto leader of that party.
If you’re not allowed to profess support for Trump then you’re, by definition, also banned from supporting the Republican party in the presidential election.
In a democracy you must be free to express your (legal) political allegiance.
Anything other approach, particularly when it is only applied to one group, is a serious threat to democracy.
Nonsense. Votes are private
Nonsense. Votes are private (certainly in this country – I haven’t voted in the states). He can cast his vote as he wishes
Rich_cb wrote:
You can most definitely be a Republican and yet not support Trump. Similarly, you can be a Conservative and think that Boris is a poor leader. You’re over-simplifying this and exaggerating what is a marketing decision rather than any infringement of free speech or voting rights. There can be consequences for what you publicly say when you’re seen as part of a brand (and wearing sponsorship logos).
I specifically mentioned
I specifically mentioned supporting the Republican party in the presidential election.
If you’re banned from supporting Trump you’re also banned from supporting the Republican party in the presidential election.
I’ve no problem with companies requiring certain behaviours from their staff but that absolutely cannot include a ban on expressing support for legal political parties when not at work.
Rich_cb wrote:
To be considered not at work, it’s probably best to change your clothes at least.
I’m not entirely sure that I’d classify Trump as being part of anything legal.
I really don’t think this is as political as you’re trying to make out. If he’d made a particularly sexist comment with no reference to any political figures, then I bet it would have had a similar outcome.
Or if he had tweeted “Bye”
Or if he had tweeted “Bye” without the emoji.
I also wonder if the fact the tweet is still up is the reason now for the longer suspension updated by Trek after the initial announcement.
Trump clearly is part of a
Trump clearly is part of a legal political party.
If you don’t think this is political then ask yourself this: If the same emoji had been used by the same person in a dispute about sports or movies would the reaction have been the same?
If not then the issue is clearly political.
You do realise that there was
You do realise that there was a backlash against Adele for wearing Bantu knots in here hair. Was that about hair or about race?
Whilst the discussion was political to start with “if you support Trump, please don’t follow me”, the fact it was after another LARGE racist dogwhistle from Trump AND the message from Quinn does follow with a brown hand, it definitely becomes more about race.
José Been is white, Quinn is white. All of Quinns previous emojis going back several weeks have all been default yellow with the hand gesture ones being white/pink. As I mentioned, I had already looked about using other skin colours in emojis even before you had mentioned it and whilst there is a general discussion that certains ones can trigger at the wrong time, the gneral majority consensus is you use your own unless you have a context you want to represent. The iphone doesn’t have multiple ‘waves’ in different colours that you can accidently select. You have to conciously choose it and use it for it to become default. Why did he conciously choose it now when every other hand gesture colour he has used in the past has been representative of his skin tone. Did he have it selected once before for some private context? Did he search Google to ensure he was choosing one that wouldn’t cause offence?Or did he see her first name and being American decide she was Mexican / Hispanic and wave her goodbye in whatever skin colour he thought she was.
It is rather telling that Been has apologised for all the trouble she has caused and since deleted/ privatised her twitter. Yet Quinn, who must have been spoken to by his team has left his unedited tweet up with no explanation and has been suspended by his team indefinitely. I wonder what he said to them for their followup to be that message and action. For one he has obviously told them he is not deleting/editing the tweet even though it has racist overtones.
The Adele row was about
The Adele row was about cultural appropriation.
It is now often considered unacceptable to wear your hair in a style that is usually associated with a different ethnic group.
In essence the Adele argument was about both hair and race.
I believe cultural appropriation is also the argument against using emojis that do not match your own skin tone as closely as possible.
We do not know why Quinn chose that particular emoji.
Are there perfectly innocent reasons for choosing it? Yes.
Are there potentially unpleasant reasons for using it? Yes.
The amount of speculation surrounding the skin tone of an emoji is a bit surreal.
I honestly think that the real reason he has attracted so much vitriol is his support of Trump.
The emoji related rancour is just a red herring.
Yes, I also think he would
Yes, I also think he would have got a bad reaction for being a Trumper. Why not? If someone acts and speaks like a facist and a racist, do you not treat them as such. So when people also support that person especially after the comments the previous evening (not his first like that when given an opportnity)
However the reaction doubled because of the brown hand appearing literally as the question of Donald and Racism hits. At best Quinn is being naive in not linking that emoji to being wrong at this point and allowing the accusations of racist support to be doubled. (Suprised you think it is surreal….). At worst he meant it. (And on some of the Twitter replies, it is not the first time he has got into a potential racial spat having ago at Cory Williams claim that his skin colour held him back. )
And as mentioned, I suspect Trek spoke to him, advised him to delete the tweet and make a statement and he has refused. Now he might be wanting to not make a statement about not supporting Trump, or what we do not currently know. I believe that is why the Trek statement has been made and made so late in the day and why instead of a slap on the wrist is it pretty much a team ban similar to what Mosconi got (And if anyone should definitely lose their place on a team it is him).
However 30 hours after most people have said, the black/ brown hand gives it the wrong connotations and he hasn’t bothered correcting it in some way either by releasing his own statement or editing the tweet to remove or change the emoji(assuming the latter is doable). That in itself is a worrying statement in my eyes. Especially as all evidence points to him deliberately choosing it.
The plus point is he has lots more followers since this has broken in the Alt-Right papers in America. (Strangely no mention of the brown hand emoji in those stories) and as a quick check of several of the bios and posts, their views seem to equal is own in more ways then one.
Rich_cb wrote:
Yes, I think it would have been. If someone made a similar response with a brown hand (when they don’t usually do that) in response to e.g. Hollywood white-washing of characters, then I’d expect the marketing/P.R department to haul them in and make the point that they don’t want the brand associated with racism.
To be honest, I don’t really see Trump as being ‘part of’ the Republicans – he’s just aligned with them for convenience and obviously there’s overlap with his ‘policies’ and theirs. He’s not really the kind of person to have any loyalty to anyone other than himself.
I agree that Trump and the
I agree that Trump and the Republicans are slightly strange bed fellows but he is proving useful to them and they are proving useful to him so they are, for the time being, one and the same.
We don’t know why Quinn chose that particular emoji, it may have been provocation, it may have been a mistake but I honestly think the level of vitriol he has received is based on his support for Trump rather than his use of emojis.
I’ll wait and see what more comes of this, hopefully I’m wrong.
You’ve ignored this point
You’ve ignored this point when hawkinspeter made it because it blows your argument apart, so let me make it again and with gusto.
Expressing support for Trump is not the same as expressing support for the Republican party. You can support Trump while holding the view that the Republicans are unpalatable and are just a convenient political vehicle for Trump to use, or you can support the Republican party because of their policies while personally viewing Donald Trump as an inconvenience. The US system is two-party garbage, so no reasonable observer will conflate support for a party with support for its candidate, and if they do, the refutation is trivial.
Furthermore, his account is verified *spits* on Twitter, and is thus notable. It’s notable within the context of his work. Anything he uses that account for is within the interest of his sponsors and any affiliated companies.
Note again that no one is banned from supporting Trump; your attempt at spin is admirable, but sadly not good enough. Such a ban would have to come from some kind of authority to your point to be valid, and that would range from thoughtcrime to illegal democratic interference, the kind that the Republican party particularly enjoys when suppressing voters, by the way. The problem was with expressing support in a way that was suggestive of racism, in particular doing so using his public, verified platform – and the “liberty” that some on the right value so much includes the freedom for companies to disassociate from or disavow individuals when they see fit.
Thanks Luca for putting this
Thanks Luca for putting this so well.
Quinn Simmons could get himself another Twitter account for his personal opinions, or the team could create official accounts for work-related posts. Or Mr Simmons could have written, respectfully, that owing to José Been’s stance, he has chosen to unfollow.
Like many other people, I am contractually prohibited from mentioning my employer on social media in case it appears that my view is actually theirs. Seems fair to me.
I have no problem with people supporting Trump, though I loathe him myself and consider his deeds and views remeniscent of 1930s Italy. You can vote for fascism or anything else if you want; I would like to persuade you not to but may fail. But I do have a problem with the use of racist communication in the expression of that support.
And yes, I never did vote for J Corbyn’s Labour due in part to his failure to deal with the anti Semitic cancer in his party. Sins of omission can be as damaging as sins of commission, after all.
You’ve ignored my
You’ve ignored my comprehensive rebuttal.
It’s impossible in the *Presidential* election to vote for Trump and not for the Republican party. And vice versa.
By forbidding Trump supporters from publicly staying they will vote for him you are, by default, also forbidding Republicans from declaring that they will support the Republican candidate.
The two are one and the same.
There may be Trump supporters who never vote Republican in other circumstances and there may be Republicans who will not vote for Trump but every vote cast for the Republicans in the *presidential* election will be a vote for Trump and vice versa.
You seem to be basing your accusation of racism on your own subjective interpretation of the meaning of an emoji hand?
That seems slightly absurd.
Pro cycling that accepts
Pro cycling that accepts sponsorship from dictators, slave owners, climate criminals and dubious money men wags it’s finger at a silly boy who supports the kind of guy who might fit in with the other team sponsors
Yes, cycling is horribly
Yes, cycling is horribly hypocritical and assists in the sportwashing of some unpleasant regimes and companies, but that is not a justification for an individual or team imitating the behaviour of other offenders. Remember the “other people dope, so why pick on me” defence…
AllegedlyAnthony wrote:
True that but I don’t see anyone calling for “those” teams to be sanctioned in anyway.
As a professional rider, his
As a professional rider, his jersey and shorts are covered in team sponsors’ logos, ie. he’s a mobile billboard for several businesses as well as his team. So if anything he says or does puts that sponsorship at risk, its the jobs of his whole team that are at risk (and this at a time when several teams are dealing with the lose of sponsors (CCC, NTT)). So yes, the team can tell him to shut up or go. And it would be a very odd employment contract that didn’t have a general ‘disrepute’ clause. Especially for posts made with an avatar showing him in team kit. His right to free speech does not apply when wearing his work uniform.
Just goes to show; cycling
Just goes to show; cycling can make you fitter, slimmer and healthier, but it doesn’t prevent stupidity. He’s only a lad, so hopefully he’ll grow up and start thinking.
Free speech isn’t free,
Free speech isn’t free, people have usually died to get it, fairly costly I suggest? And with the right comes responsibility, something Trump, Quinn Simmons and many other people with extreme political views just don’t get.
When people talk about free speech and democracy they tend to forget (because history is boring right?) that Adolf Hitler was freely elected by the German people. He promised to make Germany great again, he had a private army of right wing thugs, he was happy to instigate violence on the streets so the Nazi party could display its law and order credentials. When it comes to accepting election results, to be fair, Hitler wasn’t concerned, he got rid of elections completely.
So while you can (just in case the freedom to do so is taken away) why don’t you play spot the difference between Adolf’s approach and Trumps current trajectory?
Been is right, Trump needs voting out because too many of our freedoms will be at risk if he isn’t.
So the best way to protect
So the best way to protect democracy is to punish people who support the wrong party or have the wrong political ideas?
Because that sounds suspiciously like the approach taken by a certain man you’ve already mentioned….
Where did they say that in
Where did they say that in their post?
The bit about Quinn not
The bit about Quinn not realising his responsibilities.
That seems very much like a justification for his treatment.
Rich_cb wrote:
I haven’t commented on his “punishment”; I’m struggling to see how you could interpret my words that way; perhaps your post is what people call “fake news”?
What did you mean when you
What did you mean when you talked about Quinn’s responsibilities?
Do you think people should have their job prospects harmed because they support a legal political party?
There’s plenty of jobs which
There’s plenty of jobs which preclude the employee from expressing their political views publicly. Out of interest, where do you stand on Lewis Hamilton wearing BLM t shirts in post race interviews?
Whilst at work he should
Whilst at work he should adhere to any agreed dress codes.
In a personal capacity he should be able to do as he pleases.
If Quinn unzipped his race jersey to reveal a MAGA logo he should be punished, if he merely expressed a political opinion in a private capacity he should not be.
Posting on your official blue
Posting on your official blue-tick social media platform where you are pictured wearing your work uniform, I would consider this to be “at work”. A white man using a black hand emoji during a discussion on white supremacism is untenable for any employer
Simmons’ job is to promote
Simmons’ job is to promote Trek bicycles and Segafredo coffee. He shouldn’t need media training to understand that appearing to hold racist views will upset him employers. But to answer your second question, many employees have got into trouble or lost their jobs for making public statements (including Fb posts and tweets) that do not “align with company values”, on their private accounts.
You’re missing the clear
You’re missing the clear difference here.
Quinn has been punished for expressing support for a political candidate.
He’s been punished for using
He’s been punished for using a black hand emoji in response to someone’s anger at a political leader failing to condemn white supremacy
So if he’d used a white hand
So if he’d used a white hand you think that nobody would have minded?
You haven’t spent much time on the internet recently have you?
There is no agreed correct skin tone to use with emojis. Any choice can be perceived as racist.
Google it, it’s quite fascinating in a strange sort of way.
They certainly wouldn’t as
They certainly wouldn’t as presumably that’s what his phone has saved as the last used skin tone, or the default of yellow. To actively choose a black skin tone in response to a conversation on the legitimacy of a white supremacist group raises questions
I think we know from your
I think we know from your numerous posts on this matter where you stand. I’m fairly confident you also fully understand what is meant by “responsibilities” when it comes to freedom of speech. If you don’t, I apologise, and suggest you invest time reading relevant material rather than writing stuff based on a limited understanding of the subject matter.
I see you’ve neatly avoided
I see you’ve neatly avoided answering the question or clarifying your position.
I’m not a mind reader, the term responsibilities has myriad potential meanings.
Please answer the questions.
What did you mean when you talked about Quinn’s responsibilities?
Do you think people should have their job prospects harmed because they support a legal political party?
Go read a book and ask a
Go read a book and ask a relevant question. He has been suspended because his post can be interpreted as racist (by the use of the black/brown hand), you know that, which is why you are using the line questioning you have, to deflect from the issue. This isn’t about his support of a political party and you know that. If I didn’t know better I’d think you are trolling.
I see you’ve neatly avoided
I see you’ve neatly avoided answering the question or clarifying your position.
Please answer the questions.
What did you mean when you talked about Quinn’s responsibilities?
Do you think people should have their job prospects harmed because they support a legal political party?
The use of any colour emoji can be considered racist. Read up about it, it’s quite interesting.
Quote:
I did this morning when I saw this blow up and wondered if the emoji was maybe the reason. It is interesting and many connotations could have caused issues anyway , but the majority is you don’t use one that doesn’t represent yourself. And has he has always used a specific skin tone before, to deliberately change this for the tweet does seem deliberate. (For info, On the iphone the default is yellow and you have to hold then and choose the other required colour. It does default to that colour then so when and why did he use it last if not specifically chosen).
So you are trolling. So the
So you are trolling. So the statement is, “this isn’t about his support of a political party”. Does that help? Your comments about the coloured emoji are the type that I hear from most of the racists that I have ever known.
And here come the subtle ad
And here come the subtle ad hominems…
Just Google the ethical debate about emoji skin tone and you will see arguments against white people using white skinned emojis, arguments against white people using the default emoji and arguments against white people using emojis with different akin tones to their own.
You will also see some people describing situations in which a white person should definitely use a different skin tone emoji and should never use their own skin tone or the default emoji.
If you think this is unrelated to politics then ask yourself if using that emoji in a different context would have produced the same reaction?
If someone had asked all Biden supporters to unfollow them and Quinn had posted the exact same reply would the reaction have been the same?
Try to answer the questions this time…
So I don’t have to read all
So I don’t have to read all your garbage posts, have you written anything that isn’t designed to detract from the fact that he is rested due to a post with racist overtones, rather than the twisted statement you made that it is due to his support for Trump or the Republican party? Asking for a friend.
I’m done with this discussion
I’m done with this discussion.
The fact you’ve failed to answer a single question speaks volumes.
You’ve pretty much single handedly proved the point I was making.
Thanks for that.
Pleasure; I wasn’t here to be
Pleasure; I wasn’t here to be questioned by somone I don’t know and who clearly has chosen to misinterpret my posts.
Rich_cb wrote:
Simmonds hasn’t been benched by the Trek-Segafredo team (which is not the same as Trek Bicycle Co.) merely because he supports Donald Trump. If you think that’s the then you ought to read more widely.
He’s representing the team when he’s on social media. The team, his employer, took exception to it. Tough shit if you or I think that’s not fair.
They’ve only pulled him from some races, not sacked him or sent him to work in a nickel mine for the rest of his life.
The team’s actions have
The team’s actions have harmed his career prospects and reduced his earning potential.
People have claimed to be offended based on their own interpretation of an emoji and a man’s career has been harmed as a result. Personally I doubt that explanation.
It would be interesting to see the wording of his contract regarding social media.
Surely his actions have
Surely his actions have harmed his career prospects and reduced his earning potential. He replied when he didn’t have to. He decided to use an emoji of a specific colour he has no previous form of choosing in the past that could easily be interpreted in a certain way, especially with the highly racist issues this week that prompted Jose’s original tweet.
I see on the main blog he has issued an statement that he didn’t mean to cause offence and apologised if any was caused with the emoji colour. I do wonder that now he does accept that it could have been misconstrued, WHY IS IT STILL UP? Also I wonder if it had crossed his or Treks minds that Jose might have been hounded off twitter over this as well. She apologised about her role in this before she deleted her account. And I doubt journalists would delete an account of almost 10 years at a whim. So just shame there was nothing in there to state for anyone blaming her, please stop.
Nobody knows why he chose
Nobody knows why he chose that particular emoji, as many people have pointed out it’s not exactly a widely known fact that incorrect emoji use has been added to the ‘Big List of Offensive Things’®.
I do feel sorry for the journalist involved but she decided to get political on Twitter and it ended the way it usually does.
She posted when she didn’t have to…
Quote:
Yes with people probably aiming death and rape threats at her and her family. Still, never mind, the 19 yo can carry on racing and leaving a post up which he himself has admitted could be seen as racial.
That’s Twitter for you.
That’s Twitter for you.
Would be amazed if Simmons hadn’t also received death threats.
Suprised after such a robust
Suprised after such a robust defence of apparent racism that you couldn’t see how or why it could be construed that way, you don’t have a heart to offer up more then “Thats twitter for you”
Are you ignoring my previous
Are you ignoring my previous comment then?
Twitter is an absolute mess when it comes to threats and harassment. That’s been well known for years.
I don’t personally believe this has anything to do with racism, if Simmons had used a different emoji he’d still be condemned and attacked.
He’s said it was not used in a racist way and Trek have said it was nothing to do with politics so I guess we’re both wrong.
‘Probably’ is good enough for
‘Probably’ is good enough for me to be actual fact… or, are you being a bit sensational there with the death and rape threats?
Personally, the guy’s clearly been a douche, and on whatever level, his choice of Emoji was deliberate… the obvious connection being that its a racial reference.
So far so good, but I do feel very uncomfortable that Emoji / gif colour selection should be accepted as a possible race crime. Clearly from comments on here, there is still a lack of clarity and therefore common knowledge around this, so its a stretch for me to be accepting that people should be losing their jobs due to emoji / gif selection.
It’s not something I have ever considered, and I’m sure it’s not something my kids have considered or being instructed on… for me this is treading on dangerous ground.
I’m making educational
I’m making educational guesses due to it being Twitter (Rich CB and I agree it is toxic) and these other points. She was fine answering back to items and then even posting the apology out. She is a self employed cycling journalist and her company name was changed to match the specific Twitter account which she has had for 10 or so years. Now the twitter account doesn’t mention Private, it mentioned deleted. Maybe there is a setting that shows that, or maybe Twitter has banned her (for what?) but to me she has deleted it. I couldn’t see someone undoing that much hard work without a reason more then being embarassed over the trouble caused. I’m sure the truth might come out at some point.
This is a video Sky released about the abuse people of both sexes get on Twitter because they report on Sport.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12086883/sky-sports-unites-against-online-hate
Speech is not free, as with
Speech is not free, as with most activities it is subject to the law. Incitement to violence is a criminal offence, and slander and libel can be chased in the civil courts. Juries are prevented from commenting on cases that they are sitting on, and there are legal restrictions on what the papers can report in the news. Perjury is a serious offence that can land you in jail. As a principle, absolute freedom of speech just does not exist.
The case in question is neither as severe in the statements, nor the consequences. An individual has made public statements that his employer has taken exception to (the statements were made on a twitter account that makes absolutely clear his connection with his employer), and has been reprimanded. Welcome to the world of work Quinn…..
Taking exception to someone
Taking exception to someone expressing his voting preference? WTF?
You would need to be privy to
You would need to be privy to discussions between employer and employee to come to that conclusion. I don’t believe you were.
It is more likely to be about connecting political views to Trek that may be damaging to the brand. As Simmons is an employee of Trek, yes he has to think ahead before making public statements if he wishes to continue his relationship with his employer. Most of us do…
Simmons is still free to make political statements. Trek is still free to review the relationship if he does. At no point will Simmons be prevented from making any statement he sees fit, and if the relationship ends, he can even do it without mixed loyalties.
The lad shouldn’t have got
The lad shouldn’t have got involved simple. As a public figure and with a wealth of sponsors behind him and in this current climate especially, he should have thought twice. But he’s only 19, I’m sure we all made mistakes at that age.
That being said I don’t think his actions could be deemed racist at all, Been isn’t black so how could the “waving hand” be derogatory ? Also as much as an orange wotsit faced, nob jockey that trump is, people can still agree with some of his policies (admittedly those are slim on the ground). Trek are playing a dangerous game by suspending him, their case better be cast iron.
It gets even weirder when it
It gets even weirder when it’s pointed out that the Proud Boys leader(?) isn’t white, is Cuban, and that Biden is the one telling people they’re “not black” unless they vote for him.
How difficult is it for companies to realise that getting involved in politics will only alienate people/voters and harm them.
Lots of nothing going on here
Lots of nothing going on here.. This response sums it up I feel.
From Trek’s point of view,
From Trek’s point of view, their PR dept must be on ‘high alert’ at the moment.. remember it was only a couple of months ago when it was reported Trek Bikes being used against BLM protesters in that crazy country called ‘merica.
I’d imagine Quinn’s brown hand emoji tweet set the cat amongst the PR pigeons, which quickly escalated up to the magpies in the higher up nests, who reacted with a ‘to be seen to be doing something’ suspension.
From a HR perspecitve he’s in team kit on social media and therefore represents the company he works for. In fact from a general UK HR perspective, whether an opinion is public or private, if it ‘gets out and there is any association with the company’, then that opinion is ‘associated’ with that person’s opinion, then legally it’s a work issue.
Half my family are black and
Half my family are black and Indian descent (adoption). I am not and have been using a black thumbs up for a very long while as my political leaning is more towards being an Anarchist (ie. think and live your own way). I get out on the streets and fight racist idiots at their stupid marches. This is the first I’ve heard about it being racist. Exactly the opposite is the view in our family. If this is how some think then obvoiusly using a yellow hand means you hate the simpsons. If I want to wear a skirt am I a masogonist? I think supporting a wannabe dictator is far more worrying.
Digital Blackface is a thing
Digital Blackface is a thing and has been around in various articles for the last 3-4 years. A lot of focus on Gifs though rather then Emojis. (and the default yellow ones have also been raised.)
If he had been known for using multi colours or a specific colour Emoji all the time, it might not have been construed in that way. However when his standard is white/pink, he specifically used this non standard brown colour wave during an argument when Trumps racism was at the fore to a person who had a first name that a Yank would associate as being Mexican. (Some Americans defending Jose have also made the same mistake before she deleted/privated her Twitter)
Tim K wrote:
I don’t think there’s a problem with using a specific colour emoji in general, but if you change it from your usual style then it makes it look like you’re trying to make a point (and if the conversation is about supporting Trump then it’s going to look like a racist comment).
Simmons has simply added yet
Simmons has simply added yet one more piece of evidence that being a Trump supporter is synonym to being a complete imbecile.
Apropos of nothing:
Apropos of nothing:
The Moon is huge right now, so when I got into the house I found Waterboys – Whole of the Moon on youtube and started listening. I then looked for people who have walked on the moon, and started looking at Wikipedia. As the sound was coming to its crescendo I am looking at the list of astronauts and thinking ‘amazing.’ At that exact point I remembered just what state the US is in the moment and exclaimed “Ahhh, America.”
I now know what Razorlight were going on about.
Really missed the point of
Really missed the point of both sides of the argument here. Jose Been is a white female journalist. So why did this Simmons block use a black hand? Equally if he were black and used a white waving hand, would this be a debate?
My personal opinion was he
My personal opinion was he did not see a picture or know too much about her specifically, saw the name José and automatically assumed a Mexican as that would be where he would have had most experience of that name. But as he has never clarified and just says it wasn’t racial, we will never know.
As for the argument the other way, it might have looked less racial as one of them was white (although if he had used to default Yellow hand, most would have assumed he was pretending to be Trump), But then others assumed it was only because he was also showing he was a Trump supporter so there might have been some debate, especially as the original Tweet asking his supporters to unfollow was after a particularly discussion in the debates where he looked like he was supporting White Nationalists and militia.
But now the discussions are over as Trek confirmed it was becaue of the potential Racial Nature of the tweet and not because of who he looked to be supporting as others thought.
Tweet is still strangely still up though I noticed.