“I don’t think the cab driver did anything wrong”: CyclingMikey defends taxi driver seen pulling into cycle lane (and attracting cyclist’s anger) to let fire engine pass; Cat Ferguson wins again; Decathlon helmet recall; Cleat chat + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
"That four minutes isn't as much as it seems": Alberto Contador argues huge time differences between this year's Tour de France and Pantani era can be explained by tech and tactics
It was one of the stories of the Tour de France this summer… climbing times set by Marco Pantani more than 20 years ago being absolutely obliterated by today’s best, Tadej Pogačar putting minutes into the times of the last rider to do the Giro-Tour double.
Well, speaking to AS, Alberto Contador reckons the faster times can be easily explained…
“Regarding the climb you mentioned [Plateu de Beille], simply because of the watts saved on bearings, the watts saved with tubeless tyres compared to the tubular used by Pantani… Pantani’s bike would also have been a bit heavier, but it’s not just that, we’re talking about clothing, helmets, the road, and we’re talking about how it was done like a team time trial.
“First, with Kelderman, then Jorgenson, who was a rider who was in the top-five in the Tour, and he took over for four kilometres. Then he was taken over by the second strongest rider in the world, Vingegaard, so he’s not going to hold the record… In Pantani’s case, when he started, he started in the peloton, there was still a group of 50 riders, when they had climbed four or five kilometres, then he started and went off alone. So, it’s all very relative. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t climb incredibly, but that four minutes isn’t as much as it seems.”
Cat Ferguson pulls off the double... sprints to World Championship road race glory two days after bagging time trial title
She’s done it…
Cat Ferguson followed up her victory in the junior women’s TT with road race victory today, sprinting to the rainbow jersey from a lead group of three. Not that we’ll be seeing her in the rainbow bands next season, the 18-year-old from Yorkshire stepping up to the WorldTour with Movistar next term.
Fitting perhaps, given there was something very Yorkshire 2019 about the conditions in Zürich too, battering rain and sodden roads greeting the lead trio as they sprinted for the win, Ferguson getting the better of Spanish rider Paula Ostiz and Slovakia’s Viktória Chladoňová after some twitchy cat-and-mouse antics in the final two kilometres.
It all means Ferguson’s 2024 season reads: 2-1-1-2-2-1-1-2-2-3-1-1-1-2-7-1-DNF-1-1… bring on next year.
Decathlon Ireland recalls helmets over defect that "can compromise the helmet's ability to stay securely on your head"
Decathlon Sports Limited Ireland has ordered a recall of ROCKRIDER Helmet MTB EXPL500 and ST500.
The brand stated the product “presents a risk of injuries” and a defect has been identified on the plastic part at the back of the helmet holding the chinstrap. It is believed there are 121 affected products in Ireland.
“This can compromise the helmet’s ability to stay securely on your head which may lead to the risk of injury in the event of a fall,” a statement on the Competition and Consumer Protection Comission says.
The full list of affected batch/item codes can be viewed here, with the recall urging customers to stop using affected products immediately and to return their product to their nearest Decathlon Store for a full refund.
Cyclist fatalities fall by 4% to lowest ever recorded level, but cycle traffic down 7% and serious injuries higher than 20 years ago, new government figures reveal
Illi Gardner's very relatable lunchtime spin
Cycling in the UK in the last week of September…
Driver "spoken to" but not arrested by police after mounting pavement and ploughing through cycle rack, injuring cyclist and snapping bike in two in shocking crash
Trouble at Austria's second-largest bike manufacturer Simplon amid restructuring and hunt for investment
Challenging times at Simplon are continuing, the Austrian bike brand having had its management replaced at the end of 2023, before this year suffering revenue hits as the bike industry’s recovery remains slow. Bike Europe reports the brand, Austria’s second-largest bicycle manufacturer which employs 155 people, has applied for Chapter 11 status, meaning it can proceed with the ‘debtor-in-possession restructuring procedure’.
It is believed this will maintain its operations and solvency, with the company also getting 90 days to continue discussions with possible investors.
“We embarked on a sustainable restructuring course and have been involved in intensive negotiations with several interested investors for some time,” CEO Jakob Luksch said in a statement. “The outlook of these discussions are very promising as Simplon is known as a brand with a strong reputation and great potential for the future.
“As a team and through our joint efforts, we have renewed around 40 per cent of the product portfolio and rejuvenated our brand message. Thanks to a strategic realignment of sales, we have been able to expand the dealer network and gain major premium retail chains as customers. We have also achieved a significant reduction in the costs of staff. In addition, the existing shareholders have made great financial efforts to further secure the future.
“Simplon’s business has recently developed consistently and in line with the sales forecast but only until the first half of this year. After that, the market experienced a downturn which was not expected. Like many other market players, Simplon is also feeling the pressure of increasing costs.”
Another trip to the podium for a GB rider — silver for Sebastian Grindley in junior men's road race
Silver for Sebastian Grindley, but how about this for a story about the winner…
If anyone watching the junior men‘s road race is wondering how an Italian gets a surname like ‘Finn’, I believe his dad, Peter, is English. Think he grew up in Sheffield, now works for Ericsson in Genova & is married to an Italian.
— Daniel Friebe (@friebos) September 26, 2024
"I don't think the cab driver did anything wrong": CyclingMikey weighs in on widely shared video of cyclist frustrated by taxi driver pulling into cycle lane to let fire engine pass
This video is doing the rounds this morning, attracting more than a million views on a certain social media platform…
Someone might want to remind this cab driver of Highway Code Rule 219. Nowhere does it say that if you see/hear an emergency vehicle, then pull into the cycle lane and slam your brakes on. pic.twitter.com/WqNXpc4rVH
— Chapona Bike (@ChaponaBike123) September 24, 2024
It’s certainly got people talking and was uploaded with the caption, “Someone might want to remind this cab driver of Highway Code Rule 219. Nowhere does it say that if you see/hear an emergency vehicle, then pull into the cycle lane and slam your brakes on.”
For context, that Rule 219 in question states:
Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic.
Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you.
The cyclist involved also shared the London Ambulance Service’s advice, which states: “If there is no safe place for you to pull into, rather than immediately stopping, it is better to continue as you were at a safe speed until there is a safe place to pull in or until the ambulance vehicle can safely overtake. Please avoid pulling into bus lanes or cycle lanes.”
The video, the rider’s reaction and stance online since has not been a popular one and it has attracted plenty of comments and replies, including some from people saying they are fellow cyclists, questioning the complaints and defending the taxi driver pulling in to let an on-call emergency service vehicle through.
CyclingMikey re-shared the footage, writing: “I think this is the time to brake and stay out of the ambo’s [fire engine’s] way. I don’t think the cab driver did anything wrong.”
Sky Sports broadcaster Sanny Rudravajhala also weighed in: “Ok, so I ride my bike and even have a cycling podcast. But… this sort of post makes things worse for all of us.
“There are some on here who seem to have zero understanding of hazard perception. The law and its real life application may be different. And I don’t think the taxi has done anything wrong here and is not a ‘f*cking lunatic’. An ambulance [fire engine] is coming through and in good time, with enough space they’ve stopped out of the way. It’s not like you wouldn’t be aware of a blue light vehicle coming from behind.
“The cyclist could easily have also slowed or moved over for the ambulance too, cycle lane or otherwise. All this does is detract from actual bad drivers. More than 100 cyclists a year die on our roads in the UK, and many more are injured. The close shaves are countless. What this sh*tposting does is embolden the gutter people of the culture wars. Sorry.”
However, not everyone agreed. One account, named Cycling Bob, wrote: “It’s a fire engine. It’s a solid white line. It’s a dedicated cycle lane. You can not break the law just because there’s an emergency vehicle behind you. Many red light infringements have been upheld when drivers move out of the way of emergency vehicles. This is no different.”
Thoughts?
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@MaxiMinimalist Agreed. The big problem I see now is today's parents grew up being driven to their schools, and therefore, see private motor vehicles as the only viable form of transport. The vast majority of UK infant and primary schools have a catchment area that is within easy walking distance from home to school. Yet, the traffic caused by pupils being driven to/from school is astonishing. Banishing the "School Run" should be a priority for all schools.
When I was a kid (that was during the previous millenium when phones were connected to a plug in the wall), I rode my bicycle to school, music academy, sport grounds, parties even during the winter. The government didn't have to spend, correct that, didn't have to think of spending massive amounts of money to build cycling specific infrastructures. Over the past 3 or 4 decades, cars have grown bigger, taller, safer (for their drivers) and faster. Meanwhile, motorists have become abusive, aggressive, hypersensitive to people moving on two wheels, aka cyclists. Spending billions upon billions on new infrastructure won't address the crux of the matter. Sadly.
Obree had some actual talent in his legs though, in addition to his bike/aero engineering talent.
Малко като опит за доказване е излязло... Никой няма нужда от толкова голям въртящ момент и мощност на шосеен велосипед с тънки гуми, които дори трудно ще предават тази мощност върху пътя. А ако има и ограничение от 25 км/час е още по-безмислено.
Not sure how informative that is. I imagine for all most of us know it could be Europe's only 'volumetric modular building'. 🤷♂️
Yes, but they're copying the adults of today...
Indeed - but alas I think this is an effective argument for very few folks indeed. As for push-back, what else could we expect *? I think there are ways of selling this but we're far more likely to see headlines about the problems, while the successes are relegated to footnotes, because at that point it just works and there's nothing to see... * Given that this time there aren't politicians being persuaded to overlook thousands of deaths and the demolition of property by the billions from the motoring trades (and the excitement of being able to drive out with the bright things for a party at a roadhouse). Nor are we as tolerant of "accidents". (And noting that publicity about the cases of a handful of people killed by cyclists continues to reach the media; deaths related to motor vehicles not so much).
That rather ignores that the children of today are the adults of tomorrow.
@belugabob Arguably it's easier this way - we don't actually need to do anything to the streets except stop drivers driving down every scrap of tarmac. Where I live, a few well-placed bollards would make walking/cycling/scooting the quicker option and safer, while maintaining 100% vehicular access - just not allowing through routes in every direction.
Sweet dreams from Bike@bedtime! Thank you for featuring this classic beaut.
35 thoughts on ““I don’t think the cab driver did anything wrong”: CyclingMikey defends taxi driver seen pulling into cycle lane (and attracting cyclist’s anger) to let fire engine pass; Cat Ferguson wins again; Decathlon helmet recall; Cleat chat + more on the live blog”
When the building owner is
When the building owner is opposed to bikes being locked to his railings, but fly tipping is just fine…
Open to being corrected, but
Open to being corrected, but I tend to think most railing bans are based either on (possibly nebulous) terrorist fears outside public buildings, or simply that a bike thief is more likely to chop the railing than a decent lock (which is probably correct) rather than just “BlOoDy cYcLiStS”.
Indeed, as far back as 1939
Indeed, as far back as 1939 five people were killed in Coventry by an IRA bomb left in the basket of a chained up bicycle and I suspect that certainly increased the number of such bans. Hardly logical though when you consider the amount of explosive that can be packed into the boot of a car, very few areas I can think of where car parking is banned outside buildings for fear of terrorism.
The 7.5t truck packed with
The 7.5t truck packed with fertiliser did considerably more damage to Manchester than the bicycle in Coventry, and that’s exactly the type of vehicle I’d expect to be used to clear up that dumped building waste.
True. Daughter’s bike was
True. Daughter’s bike was stolen by railings like in picture being cut. Cordless angle grinders get through cast iron very easily for very little cost
Might need to update your
Might need to update your post from 09:16. Junior womens race has now finished.
I’ve got no problem with a
I’ve got no problem with a driver pulling into a cycle lane to let an emergency vehicle pass.
(I do, however, have a problem when they MGIF first, which I have experienced.)
The taxi driver certainly did
The taxi driver certainly did the right thing — caring for others, giving way, and possibly helping to save lives. Rigidly sticking to the letter of the highway code instead of using common sense and compassion seems like a recipe for traffic fatalities.
Unfortunately, the original poster of that video appears to display a sense of entitlement that we usually criticize in the most unpleasant types of drivers.
It’s all well and good,
It’s all well and good, however, read both the second paragraph of HC219, and the Ambulance Service advice again.
Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb.
In other words, don’t swing in and brake sharp, look to see the lane is empty, including behind you before moving in to a bike/bus lane to let them pass.
The Taxi driver swung in and hit the brakes fairly hard. If there is an obstruction or pinch point ahead, then he should have stayed in lane until after the obstruction. If not, he should have slowed down more gently in order to give the cyclist enough time to take a tea break before having to react.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
They really didn’t either swing or hit the brakes hard, they were already going slowly and clearly indicated while the cyclist was a good distance away, moving across smoothly and very slowly into the cycle lane; in any case the cyclist should have been anticipating that the taxi was going to have to move. This tea break they should’ve left the cyclist enough time to have, are we talking just a cuppa or are we throwing in biscuits and sandwiches?
“Could you refresh the pot?”
“Could you refresh the pot?”
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
It only looks like he swung in and breaked sharply because of the field of view from the camera and the fact this cyclist decided to try riding at their normal pace, despite knowing a blue-lit vehicle was approaching and there was traffic ahead which would likely pull over to let the fire engine pass. To me this is simple entitlement from the cyclist and does all of us a disservice.
I also suspect he may have carried on riding as he did to garner a video for social media.
Simply didn’t swing in and
Simply didn’t swing in and hit brakes hard. And only going 20mph
With regards to the taxi
With regards to the clip posted by CyclingMikey…
The priority for everyone in this situation is for the road users (cyclist and taxi driver) to let the emergency vehicle past as soon as possible, in a safe manner.
In this situation, I think there were two options:
1) As seen in the video, the taxi driver pulls into the cycle lane and at no point puts the cyclist at risk as the cyclist themselves should have been slowing when hearing the siren.
This is ultimately the best way for the emergency vehicle to continue at speed.
2) The cyclist could have pulled to the far left and maybe stopped next to the pavement to allow the vehicle past using the cycle lane without the taxi driver needing to change direction.
This would have been slightly tricker for the driver of the emergency services vehicle as it is less usual for any driver to undertake another and if the taxi driver had pulled to the left at the last moment a collision could have occurred.
If there have been prosecutions for drivers safely entering areas that are normally restricted to allow emergency vehicles past, then ultimately I think there needs to be a change in the law to allow this so everyone is clear on what is OK.
If the cycle lane had been two way it could have worked like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70cuuTewga8
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncH3j7Lto2c
I think it’s mostly ANPR
I think it’s mostly ANPR fines for moving into a bus lanes rather than prosecutions – for an prosecution I would imagine it would have to be something like pulling dangerously into someone else’s path to get out the way and/or actually causing a collision.
I don’t see a bug prob with letting the ANPR bus lane fines stand, because clearly the best approach is to leave the bus lane clear for the emergency vehicle if they want to use it … and there’s plenty of folk who will just use the excuse of a blue light to dodge into a bus lane for their own benefit, just like the ones who tailgate emergency vehicles through lights / junctions etc
It’s clearly utter lack of sense to object to what this tax driver did though – calm, safely observed, timed and indicated, brief stopover to let the vehicle pass, and then moved back out again.
I don’t agree that the cyclist should have been “slowing down” to let the fire engine past though – fire engine can pass in the main lane quite safely without cyclists on the cycle lane needing to stop/slow. I’d just carry on, but I would also assume the taxi would be pulling in – and I’d be checking carefully at any junctions, and probably slow or stop just in case it needs to take a turn across my path … I’d rather they didn’t have to wait for me to clear.
Velo-drone wrote:
I’d respectfully disagree with that, I always slow down and pull over as close to the kerb as possible for emergency vehicles, stopping as you rightly suggest if there are any turns or junctions they might need to negotiate ahead. The reason I do that is I feel that by slowing down and moving over, even if there is enough room for them to pass without me doing so, it lets the driver know that I’ve registered that they are coming and that I’m not going to do anything stupid or panicked as they pass. Just trying to do a little bit to help by giving them one less thing to watch out for.
Technically the cab driver is
Technically the cab driver is in the wrong, not actually allowed to cross the solid white line in that situation, but every commonsense principle says that they did the right thing and did it well, indicating, not pulling sharply into the lane or anything else. Really feel quite embarrassed for that cyclist, making a fuss for no reason whatsoever. In emergency situations seconds count, perhaps he needs to ask himself how he would feel if his children were trapped in a burning house and the fire engine was delayed because a taxi refused to get out of its way by sticking to the letter of the law (and it would have caused a serious delay by doing so, if I’m not mistaken that video is taken going westbound on Millbank, the solid white line runs all the way to Vauxhall Bridge from there and it’s a 20 mph limit, so the fire engine would’ve had to slow to 20 mph for about half a mile)? He could then further ask himself why the hell with an emergency vehicle approaching he didn’t slow down and move over? Really quite infuriating and pathetic and by posting it not only makes a fool of himself but hands ammunition on a plate to the anti-cycling brigade.
Technically there is an
Technically there is an exemption to the laws re crossing solid white lines for access, which would apply here for accessing the parking bays.
Arguably technically the taxi should either stop and let the fire engine use the bays + cycle lane to pass, or pull fully across the cycle lane into said bays.
In practice both still leave the rider needing to stop – one to allow the taxi to cross their path and the other to allow the fire engine to cross path.
Rather than predicting the completely predictable hazard from blue lights approaching from behind, the rider decided to overtake another rider in front of them (going from cycle lane to main carriageway and so risking blocking the fire engine themselves) reducing the margin of error for people panicing about getting out of the fire engines way…
Yep, I was going to say – not
Yep, I was going to say – not only would I have no issue with the taxi in that situation, I also wouldn’t have overtaken the cyclist in front of me. No situational awareness.
For me it depends if the taxi
For me it depends if the taxi driver saw the fire engine, but did the overtake & pull in anyway.
I agree it’s not one to get het up about but like what was wrong with the cycle lane space behind the cyclist ?
Agree with all of your points
Agree with all of your points and you’re correct it’s on Millbank approaching Vauxhall Bridge.
Only wanted to say that the lane splits into two very shortly after fire engine passes. It becomes a regular lane on the right and a bus lane on the left, which the taxi driver is allowed to use at all times anyway. And the cycle lane merges into the bus lane. So even in the most obstructive scenario it’d only be 50-100m or so before there’s a whole extra lane for an emergency vehicle. They’d then of course have to deal with potentially a large amount of stationary traffic at Vauxhall Bridge but that’s another matter.
But yes, there were multiple decision points to easily avoid throwing your hands up in mock surprise at what happened.
On the cyclist/taxi clip –
On the cyclist/taxi clip – one thing that it highlights to me is that even in the heart of London, on a nice, wide stretch of road, the cycling infrastructure is actually pretty crap. All cyclists get is a narrow strip of blue tarmac (not wide enough to safely overtake), some paint, and a handful of sporadic wands. The “mandatory” cycle lane is necessarily driven over by buses and other motor vehicles using the bus stops and parking bays. It also appears that the road layout has prioritised a central reservation that (as far as I can tell) exists purely to stop drivers carrying out illegal manoeuvres.
Looks like a “cycling
Looks like a “cycling superhypeway” to me!
TBF even in NL you can still find cycle lanes on-road *. BUT they have actual cycle networks so often there might be a nearby excellent alternative!
I believe in NL they’re often looking to upgrade this kind of thing to either cycle paths or – quite often – to make the street a “bicycle street”. In addition in such places generally the speed limits are low and motor traffic may be less.
Finally I believe a majority of drivers have got the message there. Still not all though – pointing to the fact that where there is still “mass motoring” we will probably need to build “cycle infra”.
* Cycle lanes not necessarily with “protection” either. Ultimately I think that’s the right way to go as that’s just another thing for people to ride into / trip over on. Unfortunately in the UK drivers have got used to being able to drive and leave their vehicles everywhere with effectively zero consequences. So we do need physical measures (and ideally more “policing”) to strongly discourage this.
The cycle lane at the north
The cycle lane at the north (Lambeth bridge) end isn’t too bad and is as wide as it could be given the width of the road (though the southbound lane has got a little rough now).
When the road widens and the buses cut across the lane to the bus stop is poor and needs a whole redesign.
In this case, most obvious
In this case, most obvious thing for cyclist to do is stop and move over. Like many comments here say and I’ve done – we get loads of blue lights as we’re very close to ambulance station and big hospitals – and I’ve benefited following heart attack with 3 resuscitations on front driveway in 2020
On the Millbank cyclist/taxi
On the Millbank cyclist/taxi/fire engine clip I think the Taxi driver was fine when letting the fire engine past.
It’s frustrating that where Millbank is really wide, so much is used up by parking and a pointlessly big central reservation. Take those out there is room for a good segregated cycle lane, a bus lane, and a general traffic lane in each direction. Hopefully TfL might get round to this in the next few years.
No wonder other road users
No wonder other road users have such a poor opinion of bicycle users. I cycle a lot in London. The only sensible response to blues and twos is to locate the source and then get out the way. No matter what vehicle you are in. Taxi driver did the right thing. The person on the bike needs to reconsider his life choices.
When there’s an emergency
When there’s an emergency vehicle approaching and I’m on the bike, I will get out of the way ASAP.
In the car, it’s sometimes better to keep moving for a while (twisty road with double white lines and no safe passing place). But on a bicycle, it’s usually possible to stop, even dismount and completely step off the road, before the emergency vehicle gets anywhere near.
I will make a point of looking at the emergency vehicle driver, so they can be sure I’ve seen them and are waiting for them. The sooner I can remove myself from their list of potential hazards, the better.
HoarseMann wrote:
That’s what I try to do too. As a bonus you get to stand on the pavement watching all the idiot drivers swerving around like headless chickens actually making progress far harder for the emergency vehicle.
It helps to imagine it is on the way to help the person you care most about, although for a lot of drivers that would be themselves so I guess their confusion is understandable.
Cabbie is probably
Cabbie is probably technically wrong but the cyclist could hear the sirens approaching from behind for well over 10 seconds. He didn’t slow or move left and even continued to overtake other cyclists. He failed to anticipate the possibility of the taxi moving left to let the fire engine by too. That says all I need to know about his poor roadcraft and lack of hazard perception unfortunately.
LeadenSkies wrote:
When I’m cycling and hear a siren (or see the flashing lights behind me), I usually stop and go onto the pavement and be careful of drivers possibly mounting the pavement to give the emergency vehicle space. I don’t think I’ve ever been using a cycle lane in that kind of circumstance, but I suppose that I’d be tempted to continue riding if it’s got a kerb, but I’d pull over if not.
I haven’t watched the video, but it sounds like the taxi driver wasn’t particularly dangerous, but just caused a minor hazard for the cyclist and the cyclist should have just waited behind the taxi.
With emergency services, the usual rules of the road are often ignored so just get into a safe position, ideally where it’s clear that you’re waiting for the vehicle to get past, and then continue afterwards.
Wonder if cyclist wearing
Wonder if cyclist wearing noise cancelling ear buds. I keep going amazed at number of cyclists who seem oblivious of other cyclists, let alone other road users and pedestrians
I think, provided that it isn
I think, provided that it isn’t dangerous to do so, drivers should be allowed to move into areas that they aren’t normally allowed into for the purpose of letting emergency vehicles through.
It also baffles me that it isn’t a criminal offenst to not let emergency vehicles through. I think it should be.
IMO Cycling Mikey has this
IMO Cycling Mikey has this essentially spot on, as usual.
The complaining Cammer afaics had plenty of time to slow down himself in the 1st part of the clip, but chose to overtake another person riding a bike whilst the siren was approaching, which meant he got into conflict with the taxi later.
Even so, there was time for him to pass the taxi on the left, if we wanted.
Mr Toad gets a bicycle. Poop poop !
Cyclist/taxi/fire engine: why
Cyclist/taxi/fire engine: why didn’t the taxi driver – and the cyclist – pull into the parking spaces that we see unoccupied on the left? That would have been the best way for both to let the fire engine pass and then carry on with their journeys.