[David9694]

I posted an earlier version of this a while back – inspired to do update following THAT discussion about all things ULEZ. 

The “manifesto”, in terms of transport, only mentions stopping HS2, but there’s plenty on the usual right-wing obsessions: Brexit, immigration, veterans and climate change.  I had another look because I worry about the ongoing decline of the two main political parties. 

If the Cons stay wedded to Brexit, then we will go into the next GE with all the widespread impoverishment Brexit has ushered in – not helped by Covid, Putin, etc. People generally vote according to their pockets.  I don’t get Labour’s current position on Europe either, but let’s see how that evolves, and even the Cons may also evolve, or even pivot, but time is already running out for them.

Several roads now lead to the horrors of a further lurch to the right in this country.  Let’s hope Labour get the GE landslide the polls are predicting – but we’re still at least a year out from the real campaigning beginning. 

A cycling angle? With the Reform Party and its ilk, Facebook Steve and Nextdoor Dave attain real political influence. It’s not spelt out in the manifesto, but you can see where this is probably heading and what it is likely to mean for cycling.  You can bet that this lot are very much “on the side of hard working drivers” etc. 

As you all know, Dave’s going to “sort the traffic” and no doubt show them lazy planners how it’s done: Steve thinks the Council are corrupt, the police blinkered and is, if he can fit it in to his busy schedule he’s going to “teach them Lycra’s a thing or two.” It won’t concern him that his Mondeo is 3 months out of MoT or that Mrs Steve sometimes drives the kids in it uninsured. 

As vulnerable road users, vulnerable people, we rely a great deal on the rule of law for protection. The rule of law means that we understand what the laws are, they are in general fair, and how they are applied and to whom is even-handed and consistent. 

The fascist position is broadly the opposite – it’s all off-the-cuff to support today’s particular agenda – that’s why the Iain Duncan-Smith “happy to see ULEZ infra vandalised” comment is, as an example, so very worrying.  In the Conservatives, here is a party happy to send signals to enable the mob to attack RNLI stations, beat up immigrants, shout at teachers, doctors etc. 

This right-wing stuff works by allowing/enabling significant privileged groups to to think of themselves as the downtrodden underdog and here is a way to fight back.  The pro Brexit campaign played on people’s ignorance, fears and prejudices exactly as this does. 

It’s all about freedom, innit, less regulation, less tax burden, and damn the climate.  There’s more polar bears now, so it’s fine.  Let’s have open-cast coal mining, lithium mining and fracking. The section on climate change stumbles around like a Friday night drunk, trying to explain he wasn’t being racist to the barman – a denier position emerges, unsurprisingly.

In places, the mask really slips: “We must keep divisive woke ideologies such as Critical Race Theory (CRT) and gender ideology out of the classroom.” – to be honest, I don’t even know what those two are.

The standard enemies are put up – the civil service, the BBC.  Amid all the thrust and parry, there’s nothing  about making a better, more inclusive and cohesive world to live in; arts, sports and culture don’t feature in this barstool view of the world: a dullard’s grim vision.

Don’t be a member of the wrong sort of minority would be my advice, should any of this come to pass. 
 

https://www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential

Topic

[David9694]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

I suppose it boils down to semantics, a protest turns violent, when does it become a riot? There are definitions but they don’t appear to be strictly adhered to. I think a tipping point is probably reached when the police are deemed to have lost control and then the opportunists take their opportunity. The lack of evident central planning does, in my opinion, hint that the underlying disillusion with the status quo is more widely shared than many seem willing to admit.

“Tinderbox Britain” it says on the front of the Daily Mail today; and I’m also finding myself sympathising with Mrs Thatcher’s frequently quoted out of context comment “there’s no such thing as society”.  So, what’s going on? However you characterise it, there’s a rabble out there.  Ideally you’d put your message out “gather in the high street at 7 pm” and hardly anyone would turn up – anyone thinking of it would be shut down by those around them.  The rabble will be motivated by a blend of grievances – perceived and real. 

Some examples – Someone over there got/always gets preferential treatment over me or “us”, someone is taking what I am given to believe is rightfully mine, I am dissatisfied or bored with my life, I quite like going out and smashing things up – any excuse or focal point will do, I’ve seen or heard of others get away with doing stuff and fancy having a go myself.  

There are also those who appear from their rhetoric to simply not want black and brown people to exist.  The playbook there is all charted in 1935-45 Germany.   For us in cycling it runs – oppress them, make rules for where and when they can be, make a big play of the times they do anything bad or if anything bad happens, label, catalogue and register them, bend the law against them, make them wear yellow, take away everything that is supportive of or conducive to them and their existence.  Enact violence against anyone who hasn’t got the message by now.  Rinse and repeat when bored of this, for any other convenient scapegoat or anyone else doubting the narrative.

Anyway, the genuine economic aspect isn’t helped by Brexit, of course and since forcing that over the line, the right-wing grift has been emboldened to try the next steps in their play-book. This sorry episode almost completes the Yellowhammer “project fear” bingo card. Today’s rioters will be approaching middle age before any Brexit benefits are delivered into their lives. 

Mrs Thatcher was saying “there’s no such thing as society, just individuals and families” and right now, I think there’s something in that.  The rioters are not the ones wondering where the next meal will come from, or whether they can heat their homes.  The Government is responding with “stick”, but in terms of “legitimate grievances” there will have to be some sort of carrot as well in the search for political solutions.  Without catastrophising too much, I guess the political goal here is to bring down the Government, force a general election in which people are invited to throw in the towel to the Reform Party.  

[Sniffer]

mattw wrote:

Liz Truss’s support for Trump was a bit of a shocker, even given her fairly loopy history; I don’t think there are many UK politcians who will overlook that Trump is a sex-abuser and a career criminal who has corrupted everything he has touched.

You would think so, but Robert Jenrick described his support on the BBC on Sunday.

Whether he believes that or is saying because he thinks it will go down well with the Tory member I don’t know, but when you think that through both options are terrifying. 

[Mr Hoopdriver]

brooksby wrote:

Just read the wikipedia article  I had half expected him to be another privately educated ‘man of the people’ (eg. Farage) and am slightly disappointed that he isn’t (shows my own prejudices, I guess).

You can be forgiven – he is double barrelled after all.

[chrisonabike]

brooksby wrote:

Just read the wikipedia article  I had half expected him to be another privately educated ‘man of the people’ (eg. Farage) and am slightly disappointed that he isn’t (shows my own prejudices, I guess).

No, it’s not that case – I believe he “puts his fists money where your his mouth is”.

[brooksby]

Just read the wikipedia

Just read the wikipedia article  I had half expected him to be another privately educated ‘man of the people’ (eg. Farage) and am slightly disappointed that he isn’t (shows my own prejudices, I guess).

[chrisonabike]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

The lack of evident central planning does, in my opinion, hint that the underlying disillusion with the status quo is more widely shared than many seem willing to admit.

Or is it just that the current online environment can be an incubator of more “extreme” opinion and excellent way of both spreading that and polarising people?

That seems to be one of the theories for e.g. the expansion of Islamic extremism?

As for “underlying disillusion” – have we any other metric for that (otherwise it’s circular “well there were riots so…”)?  In my estimation many folks I’ve known have been more or less dissilusioned from whenever, often more so when economics get more difficult.  Most of them tend to express that via disengaging from the “mainstream” or via non-violent protest, art etc.

I guess for this exercise I know the wrong people!

[chrisonabike]

brooksby wrote:

ktache wrote:

Pound shop Mark Francois.

Oh and it’s Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Who has run away…

He didn’t like obeying our laws and cultural mores so he followed his own advice and left the country.

(Living it large in Cyprus, allegedly, which is not bad for a declared bankrupt).

No no no!  It’s because he was oppressed and had his country stolen from him (legitimate grievances) – he’s basically a refugee!  (Indeed he apparently suggested claiming asylum in the US at one point).  Must be something drastic anyway because “England ’till I die” apparently.

It’s certainly not just because he derailed himself from a more conventional career via a violent assault and has subsequently made a a life of … well, folks can read his career, convictions (beliefs and criminal ones) and where some of the money comes from on e.g. Wikipedia.  Who knows, he could be reading this and it is alleged (by dodgy types e.g. by the BBC, UK courts etc.) that he and/or friends have sometimes turned up to “remonstrate” with those he feels are out of order!

[brooksby]

ktache wrote:

Pound shop Mark Francois.

Oh and it’s Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Who has run away…

He didn’t like obeying our laws and cultural mores so he followed his own advice and left the country.

(Living it large in Cyprus, allegedly, which is not bad for a declared bankrupt).

[Rich_cb]

I suppose it boils down to
I suppose it boils down to semantics, a protest turns violent, when does it become a riot?

There are definitions but they don’t appear to be strictly adhered to.

I think a tipping point is probably reached when the police are deemed to have lost control and then the opportunists take their opportunity.

The lack of evident central planning does, in my opinion, hint that the underlying disillusion with the status quo is more widely shared than many seem willing to admit.

[ktache]

Pound shop Mark Francois.

Pound shop Mark Francois.

Oh and it’s Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Who has run away…

[Rendel Harris]

mattw wrote:

My MP is Lee Anderson, and I think he is way out of his depth.

My condolences. He would be out of his depth in a puddle of urine on the floor of a Wetherspoon’s lavatory…he constantly reminds me of the excellent phrase of the late Tony Banks describing the vile Tory MP Terry Dicks: “He is living proof that a pig’s bladder on a stick can get elected to Parliament.”

[chrisonabike]

mattw wrote:

Liz Truss’s support for Trump was a bit of a shocker, even given her fairly loopy history; I don’t think there are many UK politcians who will overlook that Trump is a sex-abuser and a career criminal who has corrupted everything he has touched.

Ex Conlservative MP Andrew Bridgen turning up on stage at the Tommy Robinson rally in Trafalgar Square was also concerning.

Maybe it should be – but as many have said (Neil Kinnoch for one IIRC) “if you’re not in power, it’s a hobby”. (Albeit one with some substantial perks).

Trump seems an irresistable magnet for many voters who are prepared to overlook a great deal of personal “details”.  After all – not a few of the more powerful politicians have very shady things on their records one way or another.  Boris would be one and not just for his sexual shenanigans.  Given the pull of Trump most (not all) Republicans decided to hold their noses and go along at least, to stay in business.  Some went far further!

Would that be the conspiracy-peddling Andrew Bridgen?

[mattw]

Yes; I think they will.

Yes; I think they will.

Remember that Mr Starmer was DPP from 2008-2013, which covered the previous viral riots.

Personally, I’m glad we’ve got him, not the previous collection of self-serving wazzocks.

[chrisonabike]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

It’s the thugs who attack people, places of worship, local businesses etc but they are opportunists. The riot is the opportunity. The cause of the riot is multifactorial and, often but not always, includes legitimate grievances. Those grievances don’t have to be mentioned specifically to be an underlying cause. The grievances are the kindling, the spark can be anything.

I think I get what you’re saying (protests, sometimes get out of hand / have a “noisy minority” being a magnet for both local smash-and-grab enterainment types and more-or-less organised travelling bovver boys?) but some sounds a bit “no true Scotsman” – so if the riot is the opportunity the rioters … aren’t the thugs?

Agree “it’s complicated” though.  (Again – anyone got plots of weather changes…?)

The media is currently chewing over the apparent novelty of “seems it’s not as centrally organised as we’d expect these things”.

However something which certainly isn’t new is politicians, demagogues or simply those seeking power (or to build a business e.g. the “new misogynists”) noting a group “lower down the hog” with grievances.  Then stoking those grievances – telling them that they don’t even know how oppressed they are / the contempt others have for them.  Then comes “Are you going to step up and do something?”  Which rather often turns out to involve attacking those further down the pecking order.

[mattw]

On an assessment of just how

On an assessment of just how irredemably thick some of these people are, and how they can be manipulated, here’s a 2013 report of an EDL demonstration aganst a Mosque planned for Sheffield Lane End.

The plan for a mosque did not exist; it is now a Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Yet the twats all turned up and tried to create disorder. But that means they can be manipulated.

I think we will see some more of that, but that there will be heavy penalties for some, and some organisers. It turns into Riot aiui when more than 12 people are there.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/police-bill-for-edl-protest-over-nonexistent-sheffield-mosque-may-top-ps600000-1856856

[Author]

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