[NOtotheEU]

The first bicycle video from the driving instructor I really rate but most of you love to hate! He gets left hooked (but not hit) by a German SUV, who’d have guessed?

To be fair I can see why most people on here don’t think much of him as in another recent video video he says

“You have to look after cyclists because they don’t really read the traffic and read the roads as well as they could do” which is an odd take given that 99% of his ‘driving fails’ are drivers.

On the plus side he then goes on a rant about how mobile use while driving is getting to “ridiculous levels” and “I think it’s about time we had some harsher penelties . . . . as 6 points & £200 doesn’t seem to be working” so I’m sure he’s now going to support Cycling Mikey. OK, I won’t hold my breath.

Topic

[Seventyone]

I don’t think you understand
I don’t think you understand what “wary” means here Ashley. You might well think cyclists are unpredictable, or need to be thought about, or given a wide berth, but I am pretty confident you don’t think they could kill you. Sadly the same is not true for cars when I am on my bike. I guess the “German SUV” stereotype is a stereotype, but it might be broadly true: someone stupid enough to buy a car which is less safe than types, and or a brand which is far more expensive than equivalent types might well be, on average at least, a worse driver.

[NOtotheEU]

hawkinspeter wrote:

I’ve occasionally had a driver beep at me on the road and my initial adrenaline powered reaction is to start getting annoyed and then have spotted that the driver is someone I know who’s just trying to communicate a friendly “hi there”.

I’ve lost count of the number of times this has happened to me given that 75% of my colleagues pass me in their cars after a shift.

[giff77]

Cycling isn’t dangerous. The

Cycling isn’t dangerous. The danger comes from distracted, irresponsible motorists and a sprinkling of aggressive ones. Surveys regularly determine that something like 75% of people who would like to cycle are put off by the dangers presented by motorists. Lack of infra is also a close second. If we took the bull by the horns and started to build robust, joined up infra we would see more people making those short journeys by foot or bicycle. The result would be less congested towns and cities. Fitter people   And shops starting to thrive. 

Far to many motorists have forgotten how to drive with care, consideration and courtesy and some have moved to being more aggressive than they should be and this is directed at all road users. You have a role to play with your YouTube channel. Your insights  have been invaluable regarding my road craft on both bicycle and behind the wheel. And it has been good to deal with some bad habits that have crept in. 

As road users regardless of our mode we all have a responsibility to use the roads to ensure the safety of others. Sadly many motorists have forgotten their responsibilities to those more vulnerable. I feel that most on this forum are responsible as cyclists. We just want to see people stop  being killed and injured on the roads. 

[hawkinspeter]

Ashley Neal wrote:

A family member of mine innocently killed a cyclist 25+ years ago who rode recklessly. How do you think their life has gone?

Difficult to comment on this without specifics.

[Ashley Neal]

What’s the % of cyclists

What’s the % of cyclists involved in KSI incidents compared to motorists?

[Ashley Neal]

A family member of mine

A family member of mine innocently killed a cyclist 25+ years ago who rode recklessly. How do you think their life has gone?

[giff77]

Sadly those of us who

Sadly those of us who regularly cycle have become accustomed to the horn being used as a form of bullying and intolerance. I’ve put this down mainly to the motorists (not all) mindset that those who cycle should only do so in the local park. I also think that since the horn shifted from the indicator stalk to the hub of the steering wheel it actually takes a lot more pressure to sound it resulting in a more aggressive tone. Also horns themselves seem to have more decibels today than 30 years ago. 

[GMBasix]

Hi Ashley

Hi Ashley

Ashley Neal wrote:

 Cycling is without doubt more dangerous

A quick canter through the stats shows that this is not true. More cyclists are harmed, but it is not the cycling that does it, it’s driving. It is therefore driving that is dangerous, however the risk is transferred to the vulnerable around them.

It also would not be appropriate to say that each (cyclists and drivers) are as bad, when the causes of KSIs in cycle+driver incidents are the fault of only the driver in the majority of cases. When cyclists do exhibit fault, the results are rarely serious: more pedestrians are killed on the footway by drivers than by cyclists anywhere.

I’m happy with a lot of what you’re saying on this article, but this statement isn’t fair, appropriate or “without doubt”.

Incidentally, I’m sure a free assessment would be great (no sarcasm), but it could sound like the other team providing the referee.

[Mungecrundle]

Whilst personally I don’t
Whilst personally I don’t interpret a courtesy beep (from a long way back) e.g on a country road as anything other than the HC meaning as a warning of presence, I would suggest as a standard rule just don’t do it because 9 times out of 10* the horn is used to intimidate, rebuke, threaten and alarm. After a while you get conditioned to associate the sound of a car horn at close quarters with someone engaged in a shitty piece of driving which could cause you harm.

*Not official statistical data.

[hawkinspeter]

Ashley Neal wrote:

All I’m getting at is that poor practice is carried over to whatever vehicle you operate.

I’d agree, though there is an additional enforced learning factor that comes into play with cycling. Poor cycling often leads to loss of control and usually pain, whereas poor driving doesn’t tend to affect the driver.

[hawkinspeter]

Ashley Neal wrote:

9 times out of 10! How dare you group my non aggressive “pip” in with this cohort.

Well, I don’t think of you as an aggressive driver, so apologies for that.

Use of a car horn is problematic as they don’t have much subtlety and they are only supposed to be used to announce “I AM HERE”. It’s annoying to get beeped at on a bike when the vehicle is behind you as there’s little you can do. If there’s not enough room for a safe overtake, then how is the cyclist supposed to act?

I’ve occasionally had a driver beep at me on the road and my initial adrenaline powered reaction is to start getting annoyed and then have spotted that the driver is someone I know who’s just trying to communicate a friendly “hi there”.

[Ashley Neal]

All I’m getting at is that

All I’m getting at is that poor practice is carried over to whatever vehicle you operate.

[Ashley Neal]

9 times out of 10! How dare

9 times out of 10! How dare you group my non aggressive “pip” in with this cohort.

[HoarseMann]

Lol, an assessment drive

Lol, an assessment drive would be fun, but it’s not really going to tell us anything. My suspicion is cyclists make better drivers, but assessing a handful of people is not going to tell us anything. Perhaps a survey that asks regular cyclists how many points they have on their licence compared to those who are not regular cyclist would be interesting! Difficult to do though.

Cycling is not inherently dangerous. It’s interacting with motorised vehicles that make it dangerous. It’s not always the bad drivers either (but it is mostly!) anyone could suffer a mechanical failure or medical episode behind the wheel.

You might say you don’t need segregated infrastructure, but surely you would agree it’s less dangerous for cyclists where it exists? (caveat: and is implemented to a high standard!)

[peted76]

Ashley Neal wrote:

Cycling is without doubt more dangerous, but I’ve never been close to being hit in 30+ years of cycling on the roads. What does this tell you? and it’s not that I’m just lucky! I don’t need better infrastructure (although it would be nice for the less able)

I’m always told that a majority of cyclists are drivers, well if that’s the case I can tell you a majority of drivers are poor. Anyone in this thread up for a free assessment drive with me? Time to put your cards on the table.

I’m not sure many drivers in the UK would pass their driving tests today, so maybe your offer is a little loaded.

As a driver, a weekend cyclist and jobbing commuter I can tell you that I consider myself ‘hyper aware’ when cycling. I’ve never caused an accident in a car, but I’ve been hit a couple of times (while stationary), I’ve also had a car pull out on me when riding my bike through my local town which led to some lasting injuries for me, a couple of dented panels on the Jaguar and a very apologetic driver. I have no malice towards the driver, he just didn’t look properly when he pulled out of a junction, a minor infraction, a couple of seconds of innattention for the driver, a potential major injury for me the cyclist. If I wasn’t ‘hyper aware’ of the situation it would likely have been a lot worse, within a couple of seconds I’d slowed, shouted and made an evasive manoeuvre to lessen the impact. 

I’m not sure if you are saying that you have been a road cyclist for 30 years or if you have ridden a bike for 30 years? I personally have been riding on roads for 40years and have driven for 20 would I pass my test today, who knows.. but I do know that I’m ‘aware’ of my own inattention when driving at times, it’s a concious decision I make, I’m fully responsible for my own actions in a car and I believe that the self awareness is learned from riding a bike, far too many ‘jeezus christ that was close’ moments and the odd truly aggressive driver acting with malice. 

If you want to assess my driving, you’re welcome to come to Leamington, but I really don’t understand what it’d achieve for you, I, or anyone else. I feel it’d be far better for you to join me or one of my road.cc pals on one of our daily commutes. Not in London, that’s an odd place, but a normal ‘could be anywhere’ town. I think everyone’s point on here is that our safety (as a group which considers themselves law abiding and even righteous cyclists) is compromised often daily by bad drivers. And the stats of cyclists being injured and or killed on the roads each year define that danger.

Ian’s point about 5000 miles in a car compared to 5000 miles on a bike is an interesting one. We’d be on the roads about four times longer than a car would be to cover the same distance. And in that time we’d see much more traffic, maybe consider that we actually do have a better perpective of road saftey than a motorist? It’s certainly a different one.

I’ve only seen that one video of yours with the horn the other month, it was just fine up to that point, honestly, beeping a horn close to a cyclist is more often than not a bad thing to do, it basically makes us jump and fires the adrenaline instantly. I’m sure I saw an article a while ago which was about a brand of HGV trucks having two horns, one for other steel wrapped drivers and one for pedestrians and cyclists (one being quieter obvs). That’s the sort of good beeping idea which I can get behind. 

[Author]

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