[NOtotheEU]

The first bicycle video from the driving instructor I really rate but most of you love to hate! He gets left hooked (but not hit) by a German SUV, who’d have guessed?

To be fair I can see why most people on here don’t think much of him as in another recent video video he says

“You have to look after cyclists because they don’t really read the traffic and read the roads as well as they could do” which is an odd take given that 99% of his ‘driving fails’ are drivers.

On the plus side he then goes on a rant about how mobile use while driving is getting to “ridiculous levels” and “I think it’s about time we had some harsher penelties . . . . as 6 points & £200 doesn’t seem to be working” so I’m sure he’s now going to support Cycling Mikey. OK, I won’t hold my breath.

Topic

[chrisonabike]

Indeed – or whether they’re

Indeed – or whether they’re poor cyclists!

[mdavidford]

Ashley Neal wrote:

I’m always told that a majority of cyclists are drivers, well if that’s the case I can tell you a majority of drivers are poor. Anyone in this thread up for a free assessment drive with me? Time to put your cards on the table.

I’m pretty sure that almost everybody here is already aware that the majority of drivers are poor, so I’m not sure what that would be proving. That’s kind of a large part of the problem.

[Though your logic is a bit flawed – even if every cyclist was a poor driver, they still wouldn’t represent a majority of drivers. The fact that most drivers are poor doesn’t have much to do with whether or not they’re cyclists.]

[AlsoSomniloquism]

What do you class as being

What do you class as being close to being hit?

For example in the one posted above, you almost get left hooked and was forced to brake (close to being hit). It is a carbon copy of the recent NMOTD. So are you stating that cyclist didn’t feel he was close to being hit?

And the one from early lockdown, someone pulled out on you from a junction (close to being hit). In the latter, you even took pains to show that the actual view from your camera distorted how far away the car was from you and it was actually alot closer. 

So I’ll ask again, how close does a car have to be for you to class it as close to being hit?  

 

[Ashley Neal]

Cycling is without doubt more

Cycling is without doubt more dangerous, but I’ve never been close to being hit in 30+ years of cycling on the roads. What does this tell you? and it’s not that I’m just lucky! I don’t need better infrastructure (although it would be nice for the less able)

I’m always told that a majority of cyclists are drivers, well if that’s the case I can tell you a majority of drivers are poor. Anyone in this thread up for a free assessment drive with me? Time to put your cards on the table.

[HoarseMann]

Agree with all you’ve said

Agree with all you’ve said Ian.

I would also say that I do understand Ashley’s position, he is an educator and therefore is naturally trying to fix problems on the road through education. That is not a bad thing and a lot of his advice is spot on (cycling stuff excepted).

However, he places too much emphasis on this and has the opinion that it is not the vehicle that is dangerous, but the driver. He constantly draws false equivalences between the actions of cyclists, pedestrians and drivers, with the unrealistic aim that if everyone acts within the law and with respect for others, then safety is guaranteed.

Anyone who has spent any length of time cycling on our roads knows that with the absence of crumple zones and airbags, cyclists need legislation and infrastructure to protect themselves. Just riding legally and respectfully is not enough.

[chrisonabike]

This!  Think you have

This!  Think you have politely covered the pertinent points for me.  At the end of the day, we’re all on the road together*.  We’re not all in cars together though.  That means people inside boxes necesssarily have both far less risk from others and have less awareness (pillars in vision, reduced sound from outside).  Different modes have different visual size to other and different manouevering characteristics too (motorbikes…?).

As for “creating division” I think that’s pretty meaningless, apart from the built-in differences noted above.  Are people who sometimes cycle more of a hive mind than drivers?

To Ashley – I’m sure your general driving advice would be of benefit to motorists who choose to engage with that.  Not everyone wants to continue to develop their skills unfortunately.  Indeed there are a minority who are at best reckless with the safety of others.  I doubt they read road.cc or watch videos by you or even CyclingMikey!

* Until we sort out appropriate infra for cycling – but even then a large proportion of road space will accommodate both cars and cycles (which could be wheelchairs, bakfiets, mobility vehicles, scooters, children on their way to school …)

[hawkinspeter]

IanMSpencer wrote:

IanMSpencer wrote:

I don’t need to mythbust my perception of horns, I know what it is like to be on the receiving end on a regular basis and I don’t like it, I never find it helpful, and 95% of horn soundings that I receive are clearly not intended to be helpful. It is often unsettling because the majority of horn soundings are also accompanied by aggressive driving.

Agreed – I get a sudden rush of adrenaline if I’m cycling and hear a car horn as 9 times out of 10 there’s an aggressive driver behind it, usually shouting obscenities about some made up rule of the road that they believe.

I’d expect most experienced cyclists get some kind of post-traumatic reaction to car horns.

[IanMSpencer]

I don’t need to mythbust my
I don’t need to mythbust my perception of horns, I know what it is like to be on the receiving end on a regular basis and I don’t like it, I never find it helpful, and 95% of horn soundings that I receive are clearly not intended to be helpful. It is often unsettling because the majority of horn soundings are also accompanied by aggressive driving. I’ve told you that previously and your response is simply to declare I am wrong – and you’ve just done it again.

I quite agree about mileage does not equal expertise, but bearing in mind your comment about not having an opinion on what you don’t know, you’ve written a snidey little put down there. My comments on your video are based on what you’ve published. I’ve justified my comments on your published work. You’ve implied I may not be a capable road user. However, the point remains, my experience is hundreds of thousands, (millions even?), of car interactions while riding a bike, how many interactions does a typical driver have with cyclists?

With regard to control while producing your videos, you should know that there is solid research about how difficult it is for the brain to task switch. When you are commentating a drive, you are fundamentally engaged with the driving task. When you drive around chatting about something else, you are doing two different tasks. Your brain gives the misleading illusion that you are able to concentrate on what you are talking about and what is going on around you. I also note you’ve invented your own rule to justify driving with one hand on the wheel as you gesticulate, getting animated about your subject rather than the task in hand. I very much doubt that it would pass muster on an assessment, because one of the objectives is having maximum control at all times – why would you plan to do otherwise? The concept of not having to worry about 2 hands on the wheel because of assessing reduced risk is your own invention, and is an idea that you are putting in the minds of your viewers. A number of your talks to camera are simply that, you are simply driving to create a background. Why do you think it is appropriate to do a talk to camera while driving around as opposed to sitting in your car, parked at the side of the road? In the examples I am thinking of, the driving in the background is irrelevant.

Anyway, as I’ve said, I think the majority of your stuff is good. But your interactions here aren’t covering yourself in glory. I don’t think you’ve grasped the fundamental. You as a driver have been on the receiving end of aggression due to your driving (thinking of the Audi tailgate clip). You talk about de-escalation and providing space, from the safety of your locked box. As a cyclist, if we receive the same intimidating driving, and it is the same, the potential impact is orders of magnitude different and the tools we have to mitigate are limited. Given that difference, of course cyclists are sensitive and intolerant of the standard of driving around them – stuff you brush off as annoying, we see as threatening and dangerous to us.

[Hirsute]

I thought we meet the first

I thought we meet the first Friday of every month in the parish hall.

You must part of the Deep State in cycling.

 

[Mungecrundle]

Rendel Harris wrote:

Rendel Harris wrote:

Looking forward to my turn being executive officer for the week, though of course my decisions will have to be ratified by the bi-weekly meetings, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal decisions but by a two-thirds majority in the case of external matters.

 

“Rendel Harris” my arse! You are either Rishi Sunak or Liz Truss and I claim my £5.

[Rendel Harris]

hawkinspeter wrote:

Rendel Harris wrote:

Looking forward to my turn being executive officer for the week, though of course my decisions will have to be ratified by the bi-weekly meetings, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal decisions but by a two-thirds majority in the case of external matters.

Bloody peasant!

Ooh what a giveaway!

[hawkinspeter]

Rendel Harris wrote:

Looking forward to my turn being executive officer for the week, though of course my decisions will have to be ratified by the bi-weekly meetings, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal decisions but by a two-thirds majority in the case of external matters.

Bloody peasant!

[Rendel Harris]

hawkinspeter wrote:

The biggest problem in the “cycling community” (more of an anarcho-syndicalist commune really)

Looking forward to my turn being executive officer for the week, though of course my decisions will have to be ratified by the bi-weekly meetings, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal decisions but by a two-thirds majority in the case of external matters.

 

[brooksby]

brooksby wrote:

Mungecrundle wrote:

I very much doubt that this account belongs to Ashley Neal. What checks are made by moderators for accounts purporting to represent the views of a named person?

You think that “Ashley Neal” might be another of the Infinite Nigels?

Reading later posts, I think I’m now pretty convinced that “Ashley Neal” is THE Ashley Neal.

[hawkinspeter]

Ashley Neal wrote:

Just because you cycle 5000 miles a year doesn’t mean you are good at it, think of motorists who do similar. They think they are good also.

There’s a qualitative difference between driving 5000 miles a year and cycling the same distance. Whilst driving, you would have to be actively seeking to improve your observation and traffic prediction skills (which the best drivers will be doing) but on a bike you are pretty much forced to deal with sub-standard driving on most journeys.

Ashley Neal wrote:

Some people don’t act in a way that does the cycling community any favours, they create division instead. Road.cc is usually one of the prime examples.

The biggest problem in the “cycling community” (more of an anarcho-syndicalist commune really) is the sheer amount of tripe that gets published in certain mainstream media outlets. Murdoch-owned papers are particularly bad in continually pushing an anti-cyclist agenda and even so-called impartial sources like the BBC are pursuing an agenda of barely mentioning the advantages of active travel and instead pushing electric cars instead. Notably, e-scooters are treated in a similar fashion to bikes with the media attention being mainly negative whilst ignoring the huge problems that come with personal cars.

To be honest, most of the time people bang on about “creating division”, they’re merely getting agitated about the out-group (cyclists) not quite towing the party line. Certainly, comparing the KSIs caused by motorists on a daily basis with the posts of a few people on Road.cc would suggest to me that people are focussing on the wrong issue by invoking “division”. It’s similar to the mantra of “share the road” which only seems to be used to ignore the valid complaints of cyclists.

Ultimately, we want drivers to stop killing people.

[Author]

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