"It was not our intent to make light of eating disorders" – Rapha pulls Pantani "race weight" water bottle

Thanks for putting in an appearance, Dave. While I'm on the fence about how much of an effect this specific instance might have - and I hope to goodness that coaches are taking better care of their charges than when you were at the pointy end of racing - it's good to see someone making their case clearly and responding graciously to people taking a different tack. Cracking photo, too.

Chris Hayes wrote:

... which in all circumstances excludes fat and overweight people.  How can I put this: Get over it.  

You do understand that not being fat and/or overweight is a massively different issue to having an eating disorder, right? The desire to keep weight as low as possible (cf. jockeys) can lead athletes to some very dark places, and implying that (not) fuelling your body in the way described on this bottle should somehow be celebrated as a positive is not a way to correct that. 

Yes - but do you understand that the impetus for comlex disorders doesn't originate from a comment on a water bottle?  I would imagine that most people with eating disorders are not even aware of Rapha or who Marco Pantani is..... This is nonsense and needs to be called out. 

Chris Hayes wrote:

Yes - but do you understand that the impetus for comlex disorders doesn't originate from a comment on a water bottle?  I would imagine...

Please then, oh wise one, explain to us the impetus for complex eating disorders.  Where does it originate?  How does society and the media, including advertising, influence and drive it?  

Or did you just "imagine" (ie - made up in your head) that too?

Save the abuse keyboard warrior.  All I said was that complex disorders do not come from water bottles.  Like I said, get over it.  

Chris Hayes wrote:

Save the abuse keyboard warrior.  All I said was that complex disorders do not come from water bottles.  Like I said, get over it.  

Ah.  So just making things up then, thanks for clarifying.  Not very helpful when dealing with such a serious subject though; there are a lot of people who are unable to "get over" their eating disorders, and many of them die as a result.

This website has useful information on how to help people with eating disorders:

https://www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/supporting-someone

I suspect that the answer is "it's complicated" as to how a mental illness arises. But I imagine that in terms of external causes, the fashion/ beauty industry and Insta culture must be in the mix somewhere? Far more so than the description on the Rapha bottle of what sounds like - if it's true -  a very disciplined and purposeful regime. 

I find it alarming that there are several photo apps dedicated to making a subject look thinner than they are.

we seem to be lurching between extremes here - but I'd have thought for every super thin, muscley athlete there would be thousands of other people who, like me, could do with a few pounds off.

https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/risk-factors

The relevant ones to this discussion are probably "weight stigma" and "appearance ideal internalisation"

No-one, anywhere, has claimed that the Rapha bottle is a cause of eating disorders, but as part of a culture that glamorises weight loss, it could certainly contribute.  As you say, fashion, beauty and social media are also guilty of the same.

Chris Hayes wrote:

Yes - but do you understand that the impetus for comlex disorders doesn't originate from a comment on a water bottle?  I would imagine that most people with eating disorders are not even aware of Rapha or who Marco Pantani is..... This is nonsense and needs to be called out. 

Neither I nor anyone else has suggested the impetus comes from a comment on a bottle, but as to your nonsense about people with eating disorders not being aware of Pantani or Rapha ... maybe educate yourself. 

https://news.sky.com/story/rise-in-eating-disorders-among-male-cyclists-blamed-on-winning-culture-11899464

Thanks for that Chris, as it was I represented Great Britain on the road and track including at the Junior World Championships in Moscow, in 1989 and road for Great Briatin in their development squad. I am aware of the needs of a 'decent amateur cyclist' - I was concerned for kids trying these tactics which I doubt is something Pantani ever did.

Titanus wrote:

you're worth practically nothing as a human.

Good to see you're keeping the whole affair in context.

Titanus wrote:

Reminds me of those Stig quotes from previous Top Gear. To take those serious enough to actually be offended by them means you're worth practically nothing as a human. Or at least nothing to me. I despise this lack of tolerance or humour.

Or perhaps those being affected have, or have known, someone with an eating disorder (estimated at 1.6 million in the UK alone).

Maybe those people have considered suicide or experienced the death of a loved one, given that eating disorders have the highest mortality rate of any psychiatric disorder.

Maybe it is indeed those people, rather than yourself, who have lower value as human beings.

Maybe.

https://www.anorexiabulimiacare.org.uk/about/statistics

It has no impact on you, but could possibly prevent massive distress to someone with personal experience of eating disorders and the damage they cause.

It's a strange thing for you to get cross about, really.