Swiss pro cyclist Gino Mäder dies after horrific Tour de Suisse crash

Good points. I would add, perhaps slightly cynically, that there are very few towns on mountaintops, so a mountaintop finish removes the opportunity for the €120,000 (in the Tour) that the organisers get from towns for the privilege of hosting a stage finish.

Funny you should mention that. I was talking to a colleague yesterday who has no knowledge of cycling but had been engrossed in the Netflix Need for France or whatever it is called and his question was about how money was made and I explained the funding model of start/ finish venues paying.

"I see," he said, "does that mean they don't ride the same route each year then?"

There is still some way to go to explain our wonderful sport/ hobby/ means of  transport to the masses!

I think thats something the riders should have the final decision on.

Secret_squirrel wrote:

I think thats something the riders should have the final decision on.

Not sure about that...what if 55% of the riders vote continue and 45% not? Might be better if the decision is taken out of their hands. Obviously they must be consulted though.

Just seen that the organisers decided to neutralise the stage, the peloton will only ride the last 30 km of the route in tribute to Mader. Good decision.

I did wonder this morning if the call to shorten the stage was actually because of a rockslide and wasn't actually because they would have been climbing up the same climb as yesterdays descent. 

The call to shorten the stage was made before the news broke of Mader's death. 

I know, but I suspect the organisers would have had a pretty damn good idea of his condition overnight. Maybe not that he would die today, but that he was touch and go. So having all the competitors cycling past the spot might have been too much. It probably was a rock slide though. 

Shocking news, was a fan and was looking to see how he develop over the next few years.

RIP Gino

1. There is still a flat run to the line after the Poggio.
2. The Poggio descent roads are fairly shallow gradients, is much shorter, and have walls and barriers preventing over-the-edge mass drops and other than the obvious hairpins have no major or sudden change in direction that catch riders unawares.
3. The Poggio (both up and down) is legendary, not because of it's size, but its pivotal effect in the race. 

Festus wrote:

Sorry Remco it is the riders taking chances, I watched the descent no one backed off, maybe a switch back to rim brakes might work

Remco wrote:

 As riders, we should also think about the risks we take going down a mountain

He seems fully aware of the fact that riders have a responsibility. 

It's a competition; riders need to take chances to win. It's up to the organiser to provide a course which doesn't encourage certain types of risk taking which can have terrible consequences, e.g. finishes at the bottom of technical descents with dangerous drops.

Festus wrote:

Sorry Remco it is the riders taking chances, I watched the descent no one backed off, maybe a switch back to rim brakes might work

How will a switch back to rim brakes help? 

johnsonmoog wrote:

Festus wrote:

Sorry Remco it is the riders taking chances, I watched the descent no one backed off, maybe a switch back to rim brakes might work

How will a switch back to rim brakes help? 

I'm guessing, but was the argument that, because disk brakes are better, riders are taking bigger risks?  A bit like the rusty spike sticking out of the steering wheel argument for safer driving.

Although riders would be pushing the limits of rim brakes on turns. Granted, they might be slightly slower but over cooking into a turn is still an occurrence if going slightly faster then your skills/bike enables.

We used to have riders going over walls on descents previously. Gibert was on Rim brakes in 2018 for example.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

Although riders would be pushing the limits of rim brakes on turns. Granted, they might be slightly slower but over cooking into a turn is still an occurrence if going slightly faster then your skills/bike enables.

We used to have riders going over walls on descents previously. Gibert was on Rim brakes in 2018 for example.

Agreed.  I wasn't agreeing with it, just trying to work out a possible reason for the suggestion.

There is no evidence that riders are taking any more or fewer risks descending with disc brakes than with rim. The only time there was a spike in incidents was when they first appeared in the peloton and that was potentially due to there being a mix of braking ability both with the actual brakes and rider skill. 

Casartelli was riding with rim brakes. Wouter Weylands too. And I've set my fastest times on various road descents (4 Strava KOMs) using rim brakes. So your comment is spot on.

Festus is shit stirring because internet. I also watched the descent and indeed no-one was backing off. The point is that a descent like that at the end of a hard-fought stage is going to be raced full-on and the consequences can be severe, and potentially are in the case of Mader.

Here here.

We are all speculating the mindset of professional racers here. Everyone is individual, and everybody behaves differently in "the zone". Some people calculate absolutely everything and will back off only to the point they toe the line. Others are only focussed on their performance and being as fast as possible. they are less likely to back off, and will therefore be more likely to go over the limit. When you are so focussed like that, the risks and dangers don't get factored into your decision making. 

It's not in the mindset of a racer to worry about dangers in the moment. If they do, it's a guaranteed way to lose.

It's the same in any man & machine competitive sport, from F1 & MotoGP to Road and Downhill Mountain Bike racing. The responsibility of competitor safety is primarily that of the event governing bodies and organisers. You mitigate as many external risks as possible including defining appropriate route layout and features, equipment safety regulations and competitors code of conduct so that the competitors can focus on competition.

They often go into these sections without knowing any detail of current road conditions as well, and stage recon or previous rides along any stretch of road will be of limited help, as surface condition, weather and atmospherics constantly change.
 

This is why the organisers have a responsibility to risk assess the event (and individual stages) and action areas of high-risk.

A stage finish is where riders will go for maximum effort / speed and therefore risk of incident / injury is relatively high. This risk will be increased with a downhill finish.

tootsie323 wrote:

This is why the organisers have a responsibility to risk assess the event (and individual stages) and action areas of high-risk.

A stage finish is where riders will go for maximum effort / speed and therefore risk of incident / injury is relatively high. This risk will be increased with a downhill finish.

Bollocks, what a woke response. The riders have a responsibility to ride with the limits of their skill and the machinery under them. If they decide the risk is worth they will push the limit. The organisation cannot take responsibility for the mentality of the riders.

Old saying from motorsport. "To finish first you have first finish!"

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The organisation cannot take responsibility for the mentality of the riders.

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If that were the case Formula 1 cars would have  no seatbelts, no HANS, no Halo, no crash structure protocols and drivers would still wear open faced helmets. Provide a definitive meaning of "woke" before you brand it round like yesterday's laundry.