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Chris Grayling (CC BY 2.0 Policy Exchange|Flickr).jpgConstituent of transport secretary Chris Grayling invites him for bike ride in London after minister accuses cyclists of ignoring road signs & running red lights
A man who lives in the Epsom & Ewell constituency of cabinet minister Chris Grayling has invited the secretary of state for transport to come for a bike ride in London and see first-hand the conditions cyclists have to encounter on the capital’s streets.
Andrew Smith extended the invitation after the Tory politician claimed in an interview with the London Evening Standard that cycling infrastructure in the capital was poorly designed, and criticised cyclists for ignoring road signs and traffic signals.
The MP, who says he has not himself cycled since he was a student at Cambridge in the early 1980s, told the newspaper: “I don’t think all the cycle lanes in London have been designed as well as they should have been.
“There are places where they perhaps cause too much of a problem for road users and they could have been designed in a smarter way.
“As transport secretary, I can only watch, because it is a matter for the mayor.”
“Cyclists are unwilling to obey road signs”
He went on: “Motorists in London have got to be immensely careful of cyclists.
“At the same time, cyclists in London are too often unwilling to obey the road signs. I’ve seen regular examples of people who just bolt through red lights.
“The growth of cycling is a good thing. But good cycling is responsible cycling.”
The minister admitted however that he had in the past been caught speeding and also confessed to using a mobile phone at the wheel “many years ago” but is now “trying hard as transport secretary not to get caught doing anything I am not supposed to do.”
“Lethal combination of under-investment and inattentive drivers”
In his letter, a draft of which he shared on the Facebook page of the campaign group Stop Killing Cyclists, Mr Smith said that he was “disappointed to read your interview in the Evening Standard, and especially your comments about cycling in London.”
Mr Smith, who commutes from Epsom to Central London every day, said: “All cycling routes from Epsom to London are fraught with danger from motor vehicles, due to a lethal combination of infrastructure underinvestment and inattentive drivers.
“On a daily basis I experience near-misses from drivers who are on their phones or texting, people driving too fast or ignoring red lights.”
Mr Grayling has also come under criticism from road safety campaigners including the charity Brake and the group Stop Killing Cyclists after defending a decision not to follow Scotland’s lead in reducing the drink-driving limit.
In his interview with the Evening Standard, he said that rather than stopping “people who had a glass of wine at the pub,” police should instead “concentrate on catching the serious offenders.”
Lack of policing
Mr Smith told the minister that the comments he made about motorists in his interview “offered no action that might mitigate the terrible toll they impose on Londoners.
“You justify a lack of road policing effort by the suggestion that many of the offences, which kill or injure thousands of people, are not serious.”
He highlighted the benefits, demonstrated by Transport for London data, of the cycling infrastructure at locations such as Blackfriars Bridge and Embankment, adding, “city after city has shown that even motorists benefit from protected cycling infrastructure, because the person ahead of you in the traffic jam is encouraged to get on a bicycle instead.”
> Read more: Five per cent increase in cycling in London in past year
Turning to Mr Grayling’s comments on law-breaking cyclists, he said: “Like the majority of people on bicycles, I obey road signs. Bizarrely, you excuse the lack of investment in cycling infrastructure by pointing to anti-social behaviour by a few.
“While cyclists jumping red lights are annoying, they seldom cause injury. Poor cycle infrastructure punishes not only law-abiding cyclists, but also the tens of thousands suffering from traffic congestion and filthy air.
“Surely some perspective is required here about inconsiderate cycling relative to the vastly greater danger posed by drivers of motor vehicles.”
Concluding his letter, Mr Smith wrote: “I would like to invite you to spend half an hour with me on a bicycle riding London’s roads. I am happy to do this either in central London or in Epsom.
“I can provide you with a bicycle. In your reply please indicate a time and place that suits you. I hope that after experiencing what your constituents face every day, you can develop an informed view of where you, as my MP and transport secretary, can make a difference that saves lives.”
Write to your MP and bust cycling myths
Last week, we reported how Ruth Cadbury, Labour MP for Brentford & Isleworth and co-chair of the All Party Parliamentary Cycling Group (APPCG), had urged cyclists to write to their MPs to encourage them to support cycling and help dispel some of the myths about it raised in some parts of the press and by opponents of infrastructure.
> Read more: Lobby your MP to fight Parliamentary backlash against cycling
She said: “I explain to people here that I co-chair the APPCG and it’s like ‘ooh, well I haven’t ridden a bike since I was a kid’ or ‘I wouldn’t get on a bike because it’s too dangerous’ or ‘I wouldn’t let my kids cycle’, and that is a real issue in this place.
“There’s the popular culture, there’s what the cabbies say, and that comes back to MPs.
Ms Cadbury added: “Everybody, including me, can give an example of where somebody on a bike cycles badly. That becomes the narrative, we’re struggling here in this place [Parliament] to change that narrative.”
Her remarks have an extra resonance this week in the light of the comments made by Mr Grayling – who as transport secretary is ultimately responsible for decisions that will affect cyclists throughout the country.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
Latest Comments
- imajez 3 hours 23 min ago
Nothing new about zebra [or light controlled] crossing on roundabouts. Sheffield has had them for decades, possibly since the 1970s.
- David9694 4 hours 53 min ago
Herefordshire man fined after throwing parking ticket...
- OnYerBike 6 hours 13 min ago
I'm sure that sort of thing will come sooner or later. But presumably a key ingredient (and why you'd turn to a big brand like Fizik) is knowing...
- muhasib 6 hours 18 min ago
"the cost to rebuild the M25 junction 10/A3 Wisley interchange is £317 million. The project is expected to be completed in 2025. "
- mark1a 6 hours 42 min ago
I think they did, from memory back in the 70s/80s... haven't seen one for years though, our current milkman uses a standard van, albeit hybrid.
- kingleo 7 hours 56 min ago
I believe that straight forks that are used on carbon frames are more dangerous than the old steel forks because they are more rigid, the old steel...
- S.E. 8 hours 28 min ago
Yes, sleep apnea produces more CO... I'm not aware of any doping effect but what do I know....
- Gd29 10 hours 36 min ago
That's true enough. But doesn't address my point that the chainset you get as a replacement will not physically fit chainrings from the chain set...
- brooksby 11 hours 7 min ago
In all fairness, it almost certainly NEVER happened…
Add new comment
33 comments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/15/chris-grayling-sent-cyc...
looks like he failed on the not getting caught front, and his efforts included leaving the scene of an accident without leaving details!! :-O
More people should invite their MPs and councillors to cycle with them. It lets them see what driving standards are really like. If they choose not to go because they think the roads are unsafe, it proves our point.
One challenge I won't bother trying. Why? The dangerous parts of my London borough to cycle in are covered by another MP. My MP currently lives a couple of roads away from me and will be well aware that it's even safe for her kids under 10 to cycle on these roads in the day.
I have to say I don't disagree with any of the below comments that he made on cycling:
“I don’t think all the cycle lanes in London have been designed as well as they should have been,”
“Motorists in London have got to be immensely careful of cyclists,”
“At the same time, cyclists in London are too often unwilling to obey the road signs. I’ve seen regular examples of people who just bolt through red lights."
“The growth of cycling is a good thing. But good cycling is responsible cycling.”
The major thing I took issue with in the interview was this stance:
“We have a drink-drive problem, but it’s not people who had a glass of wine at the pub, it’s people who systematically flout the law,” he said, rejecting calls to cut the blood alcohol limit from 80mg per 100ml to 50mg. “We have a fairly thinly stretched police force and we should concentrate on catching the serious offenders.”
In my opinion all rules should be policed and if the police force is already thinly stretched then invest in it!
He's absolutely right on cyclists and red lights/road signs thing as far as I can see, and going "Yeah, but..." doesn't change that.
But it's frustrating that this always comes up because AFAIK the actual evidence shows that this is pretty inconsequential in terms of problems/accidents on the roads. Any time it's being mentioned by a minister or whatever it means the actual problems aren't being discussed.
I see the Tory Party has taken great leaps in its genetic research. But producing a hybrid of Iain Duncan Smith and a baked potato is surely taking things too far.
I just had to log in to give you a like for that
Facts will only cloud the issue. It doesn't matter what motorists and cyclists do or don't do. It's what the majority think they do.
Let's hope there isn't a referendum on the subject.
He was a pillock when Justice Secretary, and he's a pillock as Transpor Secretary. A pattern emerges, and it's nothing to do with cyclists and red lights.
FWIW, I saw zero cyclists run red light yesterday, but four drivers doing so. With a much higher risk of causing catastrophic harm to others. But Failing Grayling wasn't one of them, so he can breathe a sigh of relief as he wasn't caught doing anything that he shouldn't. Unless you count "being in charge of a Government Department without due care and attention".
Please, I obey road signs every day, or I'd be brown bread.
These London boys all lycra'd up bombing it through big cities give all UK bike riders a bad name.
Often wondered how many people continue to cycle, once they move out of Cambridge.
Cycling community wanker!
"Motorists have got to be extremely careful of cyclists," try telling that to the oaf in the grey VW Golf who did a close pass on me yesterday and then roared off at speed down a narrow urban street with cars parked on either side.
And I'm a driver too BTW.
Grayling needs to be stripped of his position and then shot.
Poorly designed from whose point of view? Is he really qualified to make that claim? If not, have his advisers told him that? On what grounds have they/he come to that conclusion. Details please, Minister, or it's just hot air.
“I don’t think all the cycle lanes in London have been designed as well as they should have been.
“There are places where they perhaps cause too much of a problem for road users and they could have been designed in a smarter way."
--
very telling he does not seem to consider cyclists as road users, does the minister realise how much more problem woul be caused if there were no cycle lanes and all those people jumpoed in cars instead?
Are we sure he didn't mean to say
“Cyclists everywhere have got to be immensely careful of motorists.
“At the same time, motorists are too often unwilling to obey the road signs. I’ve seen regular examples of people who just bolt through red lights.
Lets face it there are people who follow the road rules and there are people who don't. People who are careful and considerate and also people who are aggresive, impatient and reckless.
Frankly I would prefer the latter group to be on bicycles where the risk to others is minimised, rather than in 2 tonnes metal boxes with over 150horsepower and plentiful distractions in the form of satnavs, entertainment systems and bluetooth phone connections.
Also less pollution. I honestly see more cars going through red lights than bikes, bear in mind that many motorists are prevented from doing so because the car in front of them blocks their way.
And if you want to sign the petition against Grayling's plans to take us back to the era of Railtrack:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/promoted/stop-the-break-up-privatisation-of-network-rail?utm_source=email&utm_medium=blast&utm_campaign=7_12_2016_netrail&bucket=email-blast-7_12_2016_netrail&utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blast2016-12-07
I love this idea of encouraging critics to give it a go. It helps to decrease the 'them and us culture' when they become us. Furthermore the excuse that they are not fit enough won't wash now that e-bikes are so common.
I've never jumped a red light or ridden on a footpath or the wrong way up a one way street &c. I can't be alone in this. So where are these cyclists who (allegedly) *all* break all the rules all the time?
Me too.....I think this is a localised (London) thing maybe?. I can honestly say I see very few bike incidents and these are mostly minor stuff when they occur. On a personal level I always obey the rules of the road, mainly so I have the moral high ground when something does happen. That said I can also say I am routinely nearly killed and see every single day see cars speeding, not indicating, running red lights and generally loutish behaviour.
I would also add I have never ever had a run in with a cyclist.
It is not a London thing. It happens in the West of England and the East of England as well as London. (The only advantage of working around the country is you see how different road users behave. )
However unlike in London these pavement cyclists expect pedestrians, who are rightly on the pavement to move, rather than slowing down or stopping. Possibly as if you try to cycle into the same space the pedestrian is using in London there are enough witnesses and some of them aren't nice to cyclists.
Anyway Grayling is a *$£t
.
Hi, I'm going to burst your bubble on this, I don't ride in London, but I do jump red lights and ride on the pavement fairly frequently.
It's not that I'm a bad or crazy person, I've thought long and hard about it and come to the conclusion that it's the right choice for me. Sorry if you feel it makes you guilty by association, but that's just the way it is.
That's OK: I don't feel guilty by association, and that's your decision. Grayling is a twunt anyway, and I guess people just see and notice what they expect to see.
Having thought "long and hard", could you perhaps explain how you reached your conclusion? What factors did you consider and how did you weigh them up?
Just asking...
Fair do's to you for at least putting your hand up. I don't personally run red lights on the bike, or the car, the Highway Code is there for good reason, but like the minister I "regularly" see cyclists who do. Not just in London, but also in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Not sure what Brooksby hopes to achieve with such a blatant misquote but it gets us nowhere.
"Blatant misquote". Rather inflammatory language, don't you think?
OK, fair enough, the correct quote is "I’ve seen regular examples of people who just bolt through red lights.".
Look, I read regular examples (on a daily basis, even!) of people who are in authority or writing for newspapers saying about how "something needs to be done" about red light jumping and pavement cycling etc, based on them "regularly" (on a daily basis, even) seeing examples of that activity.
I was just saying that I don't do any of these activities and that I don't see them being carried out anything like "regularly" or even "frequently" (and certainly not as frequently as government or the media or indeed Mr Grayling would have us believe). I see an awful lot of motorists breaking the traffic laws regularly and frequently (on a daily basis, even) and yet I don't see cyclists doing it. Certainly not as much.
I'm presuming that this is *all* due to confirmation bias - seeing what you want/expect to see.
The difference is that I'm not establishing government policy based on it.
Fair enough, maybe it was a little OTT, but misquoting someobody in order to argue against what they never said seems to be a common, and annoying, trait on social media.
Anyway, you asked a question, "where are all these people who regularly run red lights", and I think your questions is answered, as most respondents appear to either agree it happens, or even admit to doing it themselves.
I was using Mr Grayling's comment as a launchpad to go on a bit of a rant about the attitude that appears to be common through a great deal of media and government commentary. Sorry: I'll try to cut back on the coffee
I have to say that I do see cyclist jumping red lights/ cycling on pavements daily here in Glasgow, and I saw the same in Manchester when I lived there (2001-20012). It's not just a few either so I can understand why people state this, but maybe it is just a big city thing?
I don't personally jump red lights, with one exception. There is a feeder road that is not used that much that joins onto a main road, this intersection is controlled by traffic lights. The feeder road is not used that much so it is only put into the light sequence if it detects a vehicle on that road. Unfortunately the sensor is not sensitive enough to pick up bikes so if I am there with no cars I either have to wait for a car to come to activate the sequence (it's not a well used road) or jump the lights when safe to do so. If this situation happened to other cyclists on a regular basis (i.e. not just the one set of lights on the commute) then I can see why they would start applying this jumping logic at all traffic lights out of habbit. I suppose what I am trying to throw into the debate is: Are these light jumpers careless cyclists or just the results of an infrastucture that does not cater for them?
Sorry but here we go again.
How many times does it have to be said? Cyclists going through red lights or riding on the pavement are not the heinous criminals this latest stupendous arse and throwback to a dark age, try to make it out to be.
If someone carrying a three year old child rides on the pavement to avoid the nose to tail foulled up congestion of one of London's charming trunk routes, what does that make you who would condemn her/him.
THe police have got to exercise the discretion on this that they have been granted.
Anyone heard of the Idaho Law? FYI, all four main London Mayoral contenders expressed interest in this - even Sadiq Khan! (It involves treating red lights as 'Give Ways' and is accepted on many parts of the continent - most recently Copenhagen - not a city kknown for it's vitim-blaming culture).
Those riding at speed through lights where there are pedestrians crossing are a different matter. But it never will be of the same magnitude as the routine and normalised, yob behaviour of motorised vermin. These are the killers. These are the speedophiles, rat-runners and hit & runners. These are the sort that may reasonably described as scum. They threaten to kill people with their actions.
We have heard from some welcome though still all too rare examples of enlightened police forces now tackling the close-pass behaviour of drivers. They have recognised where the criminality is.
And even if you don't give a toss about the cyclist's death, or their next of kin and attached circle of friends & relatives, that all costs money as well.
Plus of course the colossal ongoing deterrent of such delinquent behaviour - possibly the biggest killer of all - by depriving a mass of people of a means of personal, sustainable and active mobility (sitting on a bus isn't going to counteract the damage caused by eight hours at a desk is it!)
Chris Grayling sounds like the worst possible imagined example of someone in office (though post-Trump - an ideal candidate) - a truly obscene spokesperson and utterly and despicably incapable of understanding what needs to be done.
I admire Andrew Smith's intentions , but from what I have just read of the minister's comments, this truly malevolent and neanderthal specimen should be gotten rid of.
I have no suggestions for how to do this but some kind of concerted campaign effort ought to be directed to limit the damage caused by this dangerous individual's outlook.
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