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Tyres for country roads and icy starts...

I commute 20 miles each way on a Genesis Equilibrium Disc from 2014. Its 99% country roads, 1% cycle path. If I see 5 cars, it's a busy morning. As anyone whose ridden here (south-west UK) will know if it's not up, its down round here. I gain/lose near 2000ft each way. I've done it in wind, rain and sun, but not really cold yet. There is little time to react on a downhill and I'm a bit concerned about coming off on my morning commute, 6.50am, dark, 2 degs or less.

As its starting to get icy in the mornings I am considering changing out my tyres from Conti GP5000, to something a little better if these here roads are troublesome. Struggling to know what is right though - I really want something stable and that I can be confident in almost regardless of the starting temperature.

So far considered Schwalbe Marathon Plus and Ritchey Alpine JB WCS.

Does anyone have a view on something that is super helpful in the morning, but given the distance, not a total drag on the evening commute, should that be a bit drier? Ta muchly.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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37 comments

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BIGWATTS | 3 years ago
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Quick vote for the Conti GP 4 Season - no ice spikes but the rubber compound is better for cold and wet conditions. Fairly tough, not a marathon, but rolls quick almost like a race tyre.

Good luck, I feel your pain and the anxiety of risking pain! I have a similar rural road commute on muddy lanes and leafy bike paths in the SW, close to road.cc HQ, and tyre choice is often on my mind as I lean into a turn with a Range Rover tailgating me... 🙄

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Crazyhorse | 3 years ago
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Schwalbe Winter 30mm spiked for me. They're rock solid on ice (even with fewer spikes). Several times I've been sceptical about them and dismounted only to end up on my arse - should have trusted the spikes! But they are still pretty heavy, noisy and not much fun to ride.

Also, if it's really icy on the lanes I may be able to stop safely but I cannot guarateee the bozos in their cars will be able to avoid sliding into me. So, if it's really icy I mostly use the A-roads on my usual winter tyres (you can't go wrong with 28mm Conti GP 4 season tyes for general winter use). Admittedly that brings other risks...

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froze | 3 years ago
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Maybe you should consider the Nokian A10, not sure if they come in your size you'll have to check, they are carbide studded which lasts longer.  This tire does not have deep lugs for deep snow, but you didn't mention snow so the A10 has a tread profile similar to a gravel tire.  Another decent tire is the Kenda Klondike series which also has carbide-tipped studs.  These carbide studs will out last the tire.

Keep in mind that when riding in cold weather and ice conditions you should lower your psi by 10 psi.

The problem with studs on a bicycle is the amount of weight being exerted upon the tire, vs a heavy car with 4 studded tires, on a car you can feel the studs gripping the ice extremely well, but on a bike not so much, it feels more like your on ice-covered lightly with sand, this means you still have to be very careful riding on ice.  And studs won't do a thing on deep snow but that doesn't seem to be a worry where you live.

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Drinfinity | 3 years ago
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Ice spikes in the morning, slicks in the evening you say? If only there was something you could zip off when you got to work? Look no further than the retyre! 

https://www.retyre.co/products/winter-traveler/

More seriously- I used Schwalbe ice spikers on my mountain bike in the winter. I kept them on an old set of wheels. The best surface was packed freeze/thaw snow, and they would take on verglassed rock just fine. They did wear down after a few seasons of mountain biking, which is a lot less miles than a commute. 

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FlyingPenguin | 3 years ago
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You don't say what tyre size you can squeeze in, but if you can get Marathon Winters, or any other studded tyre, in there I'd do it. If your budget stretches to a spare cheap wheel set that you can leave them fitted to and just swap in when the temperature is low single digits then all the better.

Pre Covid I was commuting on a Brompton with the baby Marathon Winters on it, leaving home in the dark and often negative temperatures, yes I sounded like a bowl of rice krispies but I had absolute confidence in their ability to keep me upright (and I was still able to keep a good pace up when the opportunity arose).

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Reinach | 3 years ago
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Panaracer rock n road 43mm 700c at pressure, p Bar where p={1.5-2} works well for majority UK conditions (I go through a set every year on my daily commute bicycle) and
Kenda Karvs 28mm 700C p{2.5-3.5} for road/race bicycle.
For ref. I weigh 80kg in full winter cycling gear (full-face helmet etc.) and both tyres are foldable and require inner tubes.

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mike the bike | 3 years ago
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Like you sir, I live in the SW and for years I commuted daily in all weathers.  We are actually blessed with relatively mild winters down here, certainly much less severe than when I lived in Yorkshire.  I can usually count on the fingers of one hand the mornings when snow or ice are a real cause for concern but yes, I did have a fall or two and it's not nice.  Even bearing in mind that unpleasantness I never considered buying studded tyres; they cost the earth, wear outrageously fast and, as you pointed out, were not needed for the teatime run.

My best advice is firstly, avoid cheap tyres.  They are cheap for a reason and lack the modern, sophisticated technology that's available for the right price.  If you pay less than £35 a tyre you are, but not literally, on thin ice. 

Forget mountain bike rubber, the benefits are largely illusory.  Tread, no matter how deep, will not save you on ice.

Look at bicyclerollingresistance.com for the most puncture resistant, long lasting tyres.  Pirelli's Cinturato in 28mm is a decent starting point, it's not too expensive and not too wooden.

Take care

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Le Acemen replied to mike the bike | 3 years ago
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Thanks Mike.

Yes, its wetter than it is icy most of the time. Like you, working from home right now, but looking out the window this morning I realised I'll be facing this later in the week. It was icy out there this morning - 2 degrees when I would be leaving.

I live way down at the bottom of a valley, something of a cold air pocket. I have to climb out and then commute inland from the coast and generally lose a good few degrees on the way. The point there being, just because it is / isn't icy at home, that won't translate to the same when I get to the other end...

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Le Acemen replied to mike the bike | 3 years ago
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Just so you know Mike - your local knowledge was helpful. Ended up with a set of the Pirelli's - good call, thanks. 28mm was as big as I could manage on my frame with mudguards, so that's what I got. Current tyres at 28mm so no different.

Won't arrive until the weekend, but it just looks like solid rain for the rest of this week. Which is standard and the GP5000's are fine with.

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Bungle_52 | 3 years ago
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I have commuted in snow and ice and it's no fun, only 5 miles each way for me. As others have said fresh snow is not too bad but once it's thawed and refrozen its a nightmare. I've come off numerous times but if I were to do it now I would buy a cheap old (steel framed) mountain bike £15 -£20 on ebay. The wider tyres at lower pressure make it less likely to come off and the fact that you're lower to the ground makes it less painful when you do. It'll take longer to ride in but it will save your nice bike from all the salt and all the spills.
Finally, in my experience, you come off when you brake so think ahead and keep off them as much as possible.

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Le Acemen replied to Bungle_52 | 3 years ago
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Thats appreciated, thanks. This bike is by no means a posh bike - done many miles and is obviously steel. That said, I'd rather not smash it up...

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quiff | 3 years ago
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I have very positive experiences with Schwalbe Marathon Plus, but not in your circumstances. I've used them in all weathers except actual snow, but for a shorter, flatter commute, and in London, where roads are busier and temperatures higher, so ice is less often an issue, and isolation even less so. In my experience (in a 35c size) they have been absolutely bombproof. I got over 5 years (commuting c.50km/week) out of my first set, and only one puncture in that time (and that was a nail which went in one side of the tyre and out the other!) I never had a problem with grip, but they are heavy and no doubt very 'dead' feeling - didn't bother me as I've never known anything different on that bike (a steel Genesis Day One). I think they also come in a studded version.   

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Shades replied to quiff | 3 years ago
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quiff wrote:

I have very positive experiences with Schwalbe Marathon Plus, but not in your circumstances. I've used them in all weathers except actual snow, but for a shorter, flatter commute, and in London, where roads are busier and temperatures higher, so ice is less often an issue, and isolation even less so. In my experience (in a 35c size) they have been absolutely bombproof. I got over 5 years (commuting c.50km/week) out of my first set, and only one puncture in that time (and that was a nail which went in one side of the tyre and out the other!) I never had a problem with grip, but they are heavy and no doubt very 'dead' feeling - didn't bother me as I've never known anything different on that bike (a steel Genesis Day One). I think they also come in a studded version.   

Was a fan of these for many years but found them a bit skittish in the wet, especially if it was cold, and had 2 nasty commuting wipe-outs (pretty banged up in both cases).  Rubber compound is hard (would be, given the puncture resistance); I just felt they lacked grip in the wet/cold.  They also weigh a ton.  Shifted to Marathon Supremes which are folding, much lighter and (supposed) good puncture protection; expensive though.  Bit early to report on grip/puncture protection but the bike does feel livelier.  I've still got the M Plus tyres and would shift back to them if I was touring, less fixated with speed/grip and wanted excellent puncture protection.  The M Supremes could well make them redundant though.

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pockstone | 3 years ago
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Studded tyres are slow, heavy, noisy and, if you want to use them conveniently, require a spare pair of wheels with them permanently fitted, (at least throughout the winter months).

I love them.

Nothing else has given me the confidence to ride in frost or snow (even deisel spills) like my Schwalbe studded tyres. After a few icy tumbles, one quite bad that wrote off a pair of wheels, I invested in a pair and commuted with confidence through two icy winters.

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Le Acemen replied to pockstone | 3 years ago
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Thanks.

When you say you commuted through 2 icy winters - where are you based? Was there ice on the ground all the time in those winters?

The variable is some of the issue for me - I will leave in icy conditions say, 50% of the time from here on out until February. Coming back though, it will be more like 5% of the time that the roads will be bad (and probably very bad to be an issue throughout the day). Generally, daytime should be 4-10degs, too warm for ice.

So are you riding studded tyres under those temperatures all the time? Or dragging them over dry roads as well?

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HoarseMann replied to Le Acemen | 3 years ago
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+1 for studded tyres.

I commuted on Schwalbe Winters for 4 years. I put them on first frost and they stayed on until the spring. I think if you are commuting, you don't want to bother with the faff of switching wheelsets. Plus, if you're at work and unexpected bad weather rolls in, it's no good having the studded tyres back home.

They are obviously slower and heavier than summer tyres, but for me it was well worth the 2 mph-ish drop in average speed for the confidence they give you - especially when riding in the dark. I'm based near Milton Keynes and similarly used country roads and a cycle path, but with some quite busy sections.

They also work well when there's no ice, as the deep tread cuts right through mud and leaf mulch. You get used to the sound they make in the dry - a bit like riding on rice crispies. They go quiet when you roll onto a patch of ice.

I used the 'winters' rather than the 'marathon winter' as it's available in a 30mm which meant I could still get mudguards on, plus has half the number of studs, so a bit lighter and rolls better in the dry. Just make sure to use gloves when fitting so you don't rip your hands to shreds!

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pockstone replied to Le Acemen | 3 years ago
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West Yorkshire, so not arctic permafrost by any means. I commuted on them throughout the 'beast from the east', which was icy temperatures for at least a solid week, and lots of other icy mornings, snowy evenings  and very cold weekend rides. The kind where you're swopping between sunny dry road and shaded icy/ frosty surfaces every few yards, even a few off road rides in fresh snow.

I understand your hesitancy, having them on all winter seems a bit drastic for UK conditions, probably more so in the wetter and warmer SW than here.

I'm not a weight weenie by any stretch, and despite the disadvantages I listed I was happy to keep them on from  late November to early March. The security when it got cold and icy was worth the drawbacks. Also, when you get your summer tyres back on you feel like you're flying!

I did have them on my second best wheels, so had the option to swop them for  conventional tyres but never or rarely bothered. 

I'm working from home at the moment so the commute is not an issue. I can pick and choose when I ride, but it's nice not to have to forgo a sunny/cold winter ride for fear of falling off.

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joncomelately replied to pockstone | 3 years ago
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Yep, I would agree. I'm in the East Midlands so ice is only a concern a few days a year, but after some hairy moments I opted for the Schwalbe Winter active (30mm) on a spare wheelset for days when there is sheet ice (predictably fewer after I bought them) - I just swap them in the morning of/night before if there's warning or it looks like a run of freezing. It only takes a few minutes. They are a drag, but the reduced speed is not an issue because it's usually icy! Not sure I'd want to do 20 miles on them regularly mind, but I am a weakling and it's probably good for you or somesuch (and you do get used to them quite quickly).
Not used them in snow but they perform well on other wet and slippy stuff like leaves so would be happy to try them.
For all other days, including frost, I stick to my GP4000s. And go slower; I have approximately 10ft of ascent on my most common commute so I realise that may not be an option downhill!
Fitting them did involve swearing. And blood.

I also noted, during my research, that many people complained about the studs coming off. I have to say, this has not been an issue for me - perhaps relevant is my inherent desire to follow instructions (so I bedded them in as recommended, which involved about 40miles of riding them during summer!) and my general poor bike handling so I tend not to make sharp turns or sudden stops, but I don't know.

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Shades | 3 years ago
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Continental Top Contact Winter II are pretty good if your down at zero degrees but 700x37 is the smallest they go (expensive though)

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ktache replied to Shades | 3 years ago
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I had the first itteration of these on my Getting to Work Bike, 26 inch mind, they gave you much more confidence when the sparkly frost was present.

Trecherous on the leaf stuff and in any mud though.

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Captain Badger | 3 years ago
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I don't know whether this is an option for you, but when I'm commuting I don't ride if there's frost on the ground. Call me a wuss, but coming off the second time to ice was enough to tell me I didn't want a third. In my part of the country that still only curtails riding to work a few times a year, and I understand that not everyone has the option of using a  car. 

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Le Acemen replied to Captain Badger | 3 years ago
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Sadly not captain. Well, unless I buy a car I guess...

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Captain Badger replied to Le Acemen | 3 years ago
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Le Acemen wrote:

Sadly not captain. Well, unless I buy a car I guess...

Ah, there's the rub!

Trouble is that no matter how good your tyre is, ice is to all intents and purposes (this example at least) frictionless. There are studded tyres available - I've not used them, but it might be worth investigating. Here is an older forum post on them, and CRC carries them.

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Hirsute replied to Captain Badger | 3 years ago
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I looked at those in the past but decided there were not enough days to make it worht while. You can make you own though from an old tyre and some screws https://web.archive.org/web/20121025094415/https://thickbikes.com/blog/?...

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Captain Badger replied to Hirsute | 3 years ago
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hirsute wrote:

I looked at those in the past but decided there were not enough days to make it worht while. You can make you own though from an old tyre and some screws https://web.archive.org/web/20121025094415/https://thickbikes.com/blog/?...

Cool!

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Jules59 replied to Captain Badger | 3 years ago
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I think the only way to resolve the problem of coming off a bicycle in icy conditions is get a 3 wheeler.  It happened to me a several times commuting when I lived in the Netherlands,  -17c one year; I can still feel bits of my smashed olecranon. I only cycle for pleasure now and won't do it on icy roads now I'm in my 60s

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Captain Badger replied to Jules59 | 3 years ago
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Jules59 wrote:

I think the only way to resolve the problem of coming off a bicycle in icy conditions is get a 3 wheeler.  It happened to me a several times commuting when I lived in the Netherlands,  -17c one year; I can still feel bits of my smashed olecranon. I only cycle for pleasure now and won't do it on icy roads now I'm in my 60s

Ouch, yes coming off bcomes less fun as the years roll by....

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OnYerBike | 3 years ago
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I think the most important thing for grip is the widest tyre you can fit. On roads, you don't want a chunky tread (as this actually reduces the amount of rubber in contact with the road) so the widest slick you can find/fit will give the most grip.

I would also recommend a "winter training" style tyre rather than a "city" style tyre. Schwalbe Marathons and their ilk use a hard wearing rubber compound, which is great for longevity but actually not great for grip. A softer rubber will be grippier (at the expense of longevity).

I've got Vittoria Corsa Control G+ on my road bike and find them pretty grippy, although you can probably afford to fit something wider. Rene Herse do a range of well-reviewed nearly-slick tyres up to 2.2" (albeit at a price!) so one of those might be a good shout? They also shouldn't drag too much when the conditions improve.

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Le Acemen replied to OnYerBike | 3 years ago
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Thanks. I have some Fend Off mudguards on there as well so think I can get to about 30s. Appreciate the note on Schwalbe's.

Thats mad, so mountain bike tyres don't grip better bad conditions on road? Despite the fact that they all have them and some people revert to a mountain type bike to ride in winter? I don't understand how something slick, can grip more - surely the surface area is less?

Vittorias look good, maybe that's an option.

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Captain Badger replied to Le Acemen | 3 years ago
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Le Acemen wrote:

Thanks. I have some Fend Off mudguards on there as well so think I can get to about 30s. Appreciate the note on Schwalbe's.

Thats mad, so mountain bike tyres don't grip better bad conditions on road? Despite the fact that they all have them and some people revert to a mountain type bike to ride in winter? I don't understand how something slick, can grip more - surely the surface area is less?

Vittorias look good, maybe that's an option.

The reason car tyres have tread is to divert water and stop aquaplaning. In the dry car tyres are better if slick, see motorsport - the tread essentially makes them all-purpose.

As you don't have the aquaplaning issue with bike tires (unless you're going at 200mph+) slicks are usually better as they will cut through water to the tarmac underneath.

MTBs have tread to cut through mud to hard ground underneath, but in dry conditions a light tread only may be appropriate. I remember an ongoing debate a few years ago on narrow tyres with high pressure (cuts through mud) v wide with low pressure (bigger footprint). Add large nobbles to the latter and you get the current fashion in MTB. 

Treads on road tires may be useful where a build u of leaves causes problems (eg cycle lanes), but in that situation I'd avoid and ride on the road. Probably in the middle....

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