[peted76]

This past week I’ve felt like that old man who shouts at clouds.. so I thought I’ve have a moan and waffle on here and see if I’m an idiot or luddite or just maybe someone else has had a similar experience.

I’m a proud owner of a beautiful Mason Definition.. being honest it hardly gets any miles in as I spend most of my time riding my other bike..  still, it’s a beauty and it sits in the garage, in winter on the turbo, but usually is dressed in knobbly tyres for off-road rides (gravelly type stuff). Since I’ve had it, I’ve changed the disc brakes twice and swapped a couple of chains out.. but nothing out of the ordinary.. 

I’ve just come back from the new forest, I threw the bike in the car fully in the knowledge that I had only one working disc brake, ‘but it’d be okay’ I’d borrowed a bleed kit from a mate and had brought some some mineral oil from my LBS.  I’ll sort it when I’m down there..  or so I thought. Firstly, the instructions with the commonly found bleed kit were very hard to understand (lack of terminology understanding on my part), you tube it is then.. (which helped). Secondly, the bleed kit needed a ‘not included’ adaptor to attach the ‘pot’ to the levers for ‘roadies’ .. (very unhelpful). This then became a two man job as my dad and myself tried to bodge the pot in place.. (which turned into a fail with a third of the bottle of mineral oil all over my hands, the rims/tyres and the floor. So.. a quick google seemed to show the ‘adaptor required’ as a pretty common part, the next day a few calls to the numberous LBS in the forest would prove otherwise.. however ‘Bike Jacks’ LBS in Lymington proved very helpful, “Pop it down and we’ll get you running” they said, “Brilliant” I replied! So I popped down to Bike Jacks and watched as he fettled, ingected and squeezed my front brake back into action.. it probably took 25 mins for the expert to get it working. So armed with two working brakes and a warning about tipping a bike upside down and air bubbles I drove back to base and had a lovely couple of days bumbling about the new forest.

My shouting at clouds moment is simple.. why and how are disc brakes so bloody complicated!! Don’t depress the lever when the wheel isn’t in.. don’t tip your bike upside down, don’t worry about the rubbing, don’t spray soap on the discs, don’t mind the screeeeeeaching.

Now I am fully aware that this is all ‘knowledge which is to be treasured and learned from but after seeing Bike Jacks wrestle and squeeze with just one brake I’m wondering how the hell do other people manage? For the record, I’m usually quite happy with ‘new stuff’ I’ve been running tubeless on road for ever, I’ve happily made every mistake along the way and have experimented galore to arive ay my current set up… but I can’t see me wanting to ‘try to fix’ my brakes again anytime soon. 

Topic

[matthewn5]

brooksby wrote:

Reading Pete’s post, and then the comments below the line, I am more than happy to stick with my rim brakes 😀

Me too, even carbon rim brakes seem simplicity itself – and stop well enough for me. Going is my problem, not stopping

[wtjs]

The same applies to the xtr

The same applies to the xtr levers/ Avid Ultimate v-brakes on my touring bike.As for the claims about rim wear, I’ve never worn rims out yet

Try this with rim brakes, and you soon will- if the wheels survive the crashes

[Jetmans Dad]

wtjs wrote:

… although they might continue for some time to cater for the same sort of people who insist that analogue audio is ‘better’ than digital.

To be fair, analogue audio is ‘better’ than digital audio in the sense that it is a more accurate representation of the original (sound being a constantly changing wave and therefore inherently suited to analogue rather than digital reproduction). 

However, you do need top end, high quality (and highly expensive) audio equipment to even begin to notice the difference, especially at current sampling rates and resolutions. 

Also … been running non-scraping, non-squealing disc brakes for two years now and definitely no intention of going back to rim brakes. 

[Hirsute]

I used swissstop, even used

I used swissstop, even used the special rubber to clean the rims (2 hours a time) and broke a mavic rim after about 18 months – not going back to rim brakes.

Not seeing how disc brakes make money when I know my wheels will last a lot longer – how are they going to make money on wheels as I don’t need a set for each day of the week.

[wtjs]

I am amazed that so many

I am amazed that so many think they are such a huge improvement when they make scraping noises due to trapped grit and squeal horribly in the wet and maintenance is so much more difficult and more frequently required

Presumably because the people who assert disk brakes are a great improvement are as thick as two short planks and are mindless dupes who have fallen for the evil propaganda of Big Bike. An alternative view is that they are indeed a great improvement, make considerably less scraping noise than occurs with the grit embedded in brake blocks which is simultaneously wearing away the rim, squeal less than brake blocks and require easier and less frequent maintenance- for mechanical disks at least. I have worn through lots of rims over the years- I suppose this rather depends on how many miles you do.

Rim brakes will make a come-back in years to come when manufacturers have run out of people to sell expensive new disc brake bikes to

This degree of self-deception is really astonishing. No they won’t, although they might continue for some time to cater for the same sort of people who insist that analogue audio is ‘better’ than digital

they are merely a marginal gain at best

We’ll just have to disagree. 

[srchar]

Dingaling wrote:

they make scraping noises due to trapped grit

Mine don’t!

Dingaling wrote:

squeal horribly in the wet

Mine don’t!

Dingaling wrote:

and maintenance is so much more difficult…

There is certainly more involved in setting them up.

Dingaling wrote:

…and more frequently required

Not in my experience.

Dingaling wrote:

My Record brakes with blue pads on Shamal rims would easily send me over the handlebars if I were to pull too hard on the levers.

So would my H11 brakes, but it’s definitely easier to brake hard and keep the back wheel down than it was on my Chorus rim brakes on Zondas.

Dingaling wrote:

As for the claims about rim wear, I’ve never worn rims out yet.

I have!  One Zonda rear and one Calima front.  I have a suspicion that the TCO of disc brakes is barely any different than that of rim brakes, because I can replace a £20 rotor in 5 minutes, whereas your options for a worn rim are a rebuild taking quite a bit longer, or a whole new wheelset, costing quite a bit more.

Good rim brakes are good. Good disc brakes are better at their primary function, which is braking.

[IanEdward]

Quote:

As for the claims about rim wear, I’ve never worn rims out yet.

 

I honestly wonder if that’s down to the Swissstop pads as well, I’ve only replaced rims on my gravel bike after 4000km because I’ve dinged them off rocks (something I’m hoping a set of inserts will prevent). On my all-conditions road bike I’ve only replaced wheels because the cheap OEM wheels were snapping too many spokes, after 6000km the rims had plenty of life left.

I guess if I could actually afford carbon rims I’d maybe be looking at it differently, but the only bike I would put carbon wheels on doesn’t come out in the rain anyway so it’s a moot point! 

[Dingaling]

I quite agree. I am amazed

I quite agree. I am amazed that so many think they are such a huge improvement when they make scraping noises due to trapped grit and squeal horribly in the wet and maintenance is so much more difficult and more frequently required.

[“I swear if more stock bikes had come with decent callipers, pads and rims to begin with then less people would be so infatuated with discs.”]

I guess it just comes down to how much people can or are prepared to spend on their kit. My Record brakes with blue pads on Shamal rims would easily send me over the handlebars if I were to pull too hard on the levers.

The same applies to the xtr levers/ Avid Ultimate v-brakes on my touring bike.

As for the claims about rim wear, I’ve never worn rims out yet.

 

[IanEdward]

Quote:

hydraulic brakes are a quantum leap better than anything that went before

I mean, granted, I’m a veteran Disc-brake-cloud-shouter and even I accept that people seem to like them and that they’re here to stay, but quantum leap? No chance. Compared with an OEM set of Tektro callipers with good pads (Swissstop blue) and mid-quality DT aluminium rims, they are merely a marginal gain at best (at the expense of more time bedding in, reduced pad clearance in gritty conditions, squealing in the wet, extra weight, pads that get contaminated by road spray, and well, extra expense!). I swear if more stock bikes had come with decent callipers, pads and rims to begin with then less people would be so infatuated with discs.

Rim brakes will make a come-back in years to come when manufacturers have run out of people to sell expensive new disc brake bikes to. They’re just trying to figure out a new way to market them (“light, cheap, effective, pick three?”)

[mike the bike]

To be honest I find it

To be honest I find it difficult to muster much sympathy for your predicament.  You knowingly set off on a ride with a faulty brake; you don’t have the right kit to fix it and you make a bodge of the job.  Just the sort of rider I travel miles to avoid really.

But stick with it, hydraulic brakes are a quantum leap better than anything that went before and your persistence will pay dividends.  I’m old and have old men’s attitudes; I never spend money on nonsense.   But I swear I will never waste cash on rim brakes again, they are very much yesterday’s answer to a never-ending problem.

[srchar]

This is the equivalent of

This is the equivalent of complaining that changing threaded bottom brackets is difficult, because your toolkit doesn’t include the correct spline adaptor and you grazed your knuckles while doing a two-man bodge using water pump pliers and two bits of copper pipe.

Using the correct tools saves time and effort, no matter what job you’re doing.

[TotalLoss]

At some point they’ve all
At some point they’ve all been down the road at various angles ?

[Bungle_52]

Thanks. That explains afew

Thanks. That explains afew things.

[Bungle_52]

Have you tried turning your

Have you tried turning your motorcycle upside down?

[brooksby]

Reading Pete’s post, and then

Reading Pete’s post, and then the comments below the line, I am more than happy to stick with my rim brakes 😀

[Author]

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