Dealing with the "i hate cyclist" rant from relatives at Christmas

hawkinspeter wrote:

Disagreements don't always get resolved by implied violence. Sometimes it's just a matter of old ideas dying off with the older population, but I don't think that's the case with cyclist hatred as it seems to cross age groups.

The thing is that it actually benefits most people to have a larger number of cyclists on the roads and so motorists and cyclists should have their goals aligned - quality transport options that get you from A to B quickly and safely. The problem is that there's a lot of money made in keeping people in their cars, so we end up with biased media *cough*BBC*cough* and a lot of people eager to have an out-group to blame for all their repressed rage from sitting in traffic queues.

I think education is going to be more effective in getting people to realise that cyclists are not actually a curse upon the roads though there's always some people that just don't like to hear facts.

But why do the young have different ideas from the old? Because they experienced different conditions when growing up. And the conditions will have changed because of countless millions of individual and collective acts that weren't based on consensus and weren't always 100% peaceful and accepted by all.

I'm not talking about getting into physical fights with people or setting off bombs or dropping bricks off motorway bridges or anything (though in the past explicit violence was sometimes part of getting change, it's not really my point). Just seems to me that ultimately change happens because people just push ahead and do things to change reality rather than trying to persuade everyone to fully agree to them. Then you have to trust people will come to accept or even welcome the new conditions. So arguing to persuade every obstreperous or dim individual is not critical.

(Right now those pushing to start a war with Iran aren't relying on persuading everyone through theoretical arguments and rhetorical techniques - they are just hoping everyone will feel obliged to support it once they change the circumstances and get it started)

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

 

Disagreements don't always get resolved by implied violence. Sometimes it's just a matter of old ideas dying off with the older population, but I don't think that's the case with cyclist hatred as it seems to cross age groups.

The thing is that it actually benefits most people to have a larger number of cyclists on the roads and so motorists and cyclists should have their goals aligned - quality transport options that get you from A to B quickly and safely. The problem is that there's a lot of money made in keeping people in their cars, so we end up with biased media *cough*BBC*cough* and a lot of people eager to have an out-group to blame for all their repressed rage from sitting in traffic queues.

I think education is going to be more effective in getting people to realise that cyclists are not actually a curse upon the roads though there's always some people that just don't like to hear facts.

But why do the young have different ideas from the old? Because they experienced different conditions when growing up. And the conditions will have changed because of countless millions of individual and collective acts that weren't based on consensus and weren't always 100% peaceful and accepted by all. I'm not talking about getting into physical fights with people or setting off bombs or dropping bricks off motorway bridges or anything (though in the past that was sometimes part of it, it's not really my point). Just seems to me that ultimately change happens because people just push ahead and do things to change reality rather than trying to persuade everyone to fully agree to them. Then you have to trust people will come to accept or even welcome the new conditions. So arguing to persuade every obstreperous or dim individual is not critical. (Right now those pushing to start a war with Iran aren't relying on persuading everyone through theoretical arguments and rhetorical techniques - they are just hoping everyone will feel obliged to support it once they change the circumstances and get it started)

As well as different environments, young people tend to have a more flexible mindset as they haven't yet decided what they think is right or that they are not so invested in a particular ideology. This means that they are more receptive to new ideas and can see the advantages rather than just reacting with fear things changing.

I'm not sure that a war with Iran is in the same kind of ballpark as that's far more likely to be influenced by huge amounts of money and the possibility of owning large oil reserves.

hawkinspeter wrote:

As well as different environments, young people tend to have a more flexible mindset as they haven't yet decided what they think is right or that they are not so invested in a particular ideology. This means that they are more receptive to new ideas and can see the advantages rather than just reacting with fear things changing.

 

You are so right. Children are our hope for a better future.

Mungecrundle wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

As well as different environments, young people tend to have a more flexible mindset as they haven't yet decided what they think is right or that they are not so invested in a particular ideology. This means that they are more receptive to new ideas and can see the advantages rather than just reacting with fear things changing.

You are so right. Children are our hope for a better future.

I've long thought that education should be a much higher priority in society (and not necessarily just the exam-passing rubbish that seems to be in vogue).

We should aim to provide as many alternate viewpoints as possible to kids

LastBoyScout wrote:

I've had a colleague at work openly admit to me that they "hate" cyclists, apparently because they hold her up when she's out in her car!

I was so stunned, I didn't know what to say - she's otherwise very pleasant.

Toyed with the idea of reporting her to HR, but figured it was going to be pretty pointless, petty and make me look more of an idiot than her.

I've had the same.

"I hate cyclists"
"Well, you don't hate me."
"I do when you're on a bike."

Well, fine, fuck you.

LastBoyScout wrote:

I've had a colleague at work openly admit to me that they "hate" cyclists, apparently because they hold her up when she's out in her car!

I actually constantly get held up by cars when I'm cycling around town... In fact come to think about it I also constantly get held up by cars when I take the bus too, or when I try and cross the road.

Rick_Rude wrote:

Go outside, get in your car and promptly run over all the neighbourhood kids on their new bikes. That will show them who the real danger is.

Excellent advice, I can see the headline now.. 'Cyclist drives car into kids'

Organon wrote:

'Cyclists, train passengers, scorpios and black people.' Crickey, I am three of those. 

I hate train passengers, am I in the clear

Organon wrote:

'Cyclists, train passengers, scorpios and black people.' Crickey, I am three of those. 

That is just the typical thing a Scorpio would say! 

Organon wrote:

'Cyclists, train passengers, scorpios and black people.' Crickey, I am three of those. 

I tow a caravan, and drive a sports car, as well as ride a bike. Any advance on three?

RMurphy195 wrote:

Organon wrote:

'Cyclists, train passengers, scorpios and black people.' Crickey, I am three of those. 

 

I tow a caravan, and drive a sports car, as well as ride a bike. Any advance on three?

Bonus points if you tow the caravan with the bike.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Write them a letter....

Including a cheque made out to the most bigotted, small minded ignoramous also known as.... for just enough money that they will want to pay it in.

Boatsie wrote:

Earth is upside down..

I think you'll find Boatsie that being an Australian it is in fact your good self that is upside down, we're all orientated correctly, heads at the top, feet at the bottom, as nature intended .

StraelGuy wrote:

Boatsie wrote:

Earth is upside down..

I think you'll find Boatsie that being an Australian it is in fact your good self that is upside down, we're all orientated correctly, heads at the top, feet at the bottom, as nature intended .

Good man young chap,
If such the case,
You'd love our Lions,
Great square shows base.

However, regardless of atmosphere,
Down here our clocks on up the wall,
Hence Dare (tiger) to share common sense.
Down unders above, guessing star is to steer.

Although, I Herd British are often supermen and X-ray vision might allow visual of galactic clock through planet.. Maybe clocks on floor could catch on.

Could always get 'em drunk and count how many times they fall off. I think my new years best was 3-4 within 100metres on a 62road. Once underway, covered a couple of kms.