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Water on longer rides
Personally I find it hard to bring myself to add the weight of an extra water bottle 0.75kg on long rides, having spent plenty of time and money on getting my bike light and efficient. But I also know the engine wont function without water.
So, what to do! What is more efficient - stopping to refill or carrying the extra weight?
Last couple of long rides Ive done (Yorkshire dales cycleway and Fred Whitton route) Ive taken one bottle and been fortunate enough to refill from friendly locals or public conveniences. But yesterdays 75mi ride I was struggling to find anyone/where to refill, and didnt have my water filter for rivers/streams I passed.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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34 comments
Someone was championing their 5 grand bike that weighed nothing; I felt like saying, "and now you're going to chuck 2 water bottles on it, a saddle bag with some spares/tool and you're not exactly that 'svelte'?"
I went to a ToB stage finish (on my pub bike) and observed the legions of cycle club people turning up; the amount of carbon on the bike was directly proportional to the extra 'lard' on the owner.
Crap power to weight ratio means you need all the help you can get. I'm noticeably slower on my 15kg+ steel tourer than I am on my sub-10kg "fast" bike, particularly on climbs. Most of my climbing PBs were set when I had a 7kg-ish carbon bike a couple of years ago so bike weight clearly makes a difference to me. I'm only riding for fitness rather than racing but I wouldn't kick some insane superbike out of the shed just because I'm a fat bloke. Each to their own.
Yea - but no. The maths on that doesnt work out.
150w power (70 kg rider + 15 kg bike) = PR ratio 1.76
150w power (70 kg rider + 7 kg bike) = PR ratio 1.94
~ a 10% difference in PR ratio for a 100% heavier bike. Your own weight is always going to dominate over the bikes.
May I say with great certainty that none of us are, or ever will be Haile Gebrselassie.
Dr Tim Noakes has made an interesting podcast about a similar subject with marathon runners. Take from it what you will. https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/nutrition-articles/how-youre-be...
so the best hydration strategy is not to take a couple of bottles of water and drink throughhout the ride, but to wait until the end then drink the stomach contents of a wildebeest.
it's about now that I'd start to worry if I were one of the deer in Richmond Park.
FWIW i did 55 hilly miles this morning. It was 34 degrees and I started sweating as soon as I got on the bike. I drank two bottles by half way, bought a litre at a little shop, refilled the bottles and drank those by the end, since which time I have been pouring water into my head all afternoon. If one bottle isn't enough, take two. If two bottles aren't enough, buy some more or find a tap.
Puritabs don't kill off flukes and other parasites quickly and so drinking found water shortly after dropping puritabs into it is not a simple answer and not without risk - you need to consider the environment in which you found it.
And I did 63 miles yesterday on one 500ml bottle , no cramp, no headache and lived to tell the tale. I would have drunk less if the first quarter of the ride hadn’t had me wrapped up in a sweaty waterproof
I still cant find the full article but:
"When Haile Gebrselassie became the first sub-2:04 marathoner in 2008, he lost 10 percent of his starting weight—far more than the 2 percent loss that the American College of Sports Medicine says “degrades aerobic exercise.” So what explains this apparent contradiction?"
Mild Dehydration Won’t Slow You Down, https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20859148/mild-dehydration-...
Dehydration and endurance performance in competitive athletes - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1753-4887.2012.00530.x
Water = hydration = much less chance of cramp ruining a fun ride and no need to play hunt the water supply. I'm baffled you feel the need to ask the question, or would be seriously considering purification tablets unless you are going to the boonies.
If the extra weight offends you that much take a dump before the ride.
Much like some of the stats above I rather suspect that speed losses/gains due to weight only really apply to elite athletes at full gas.
Within 2-3kg the weight of your bike only makes a difference if your twin clone is riding the same bike next to you and you are racing.
My last sportive (Ride London) I was probably carrying 2-3kg over a normal 50-60 mile pootle because of extra water (Camelbak) gels, snacks, double porridge for brekkie and tools, and it was still flipping great!
Lighten your outlook rather than your bike, sit up smell the daisies and enjoy getting out there and riding.
@ Welsh boy
Its not how much power you're producing compared to elite riders, its your own physical effort determines hydration. A hard ride I can consume a litre/hour and steady rides one litre per 3 hours. But ideally you should need to pee upon arriving home and shouldn't be too dark.
The pros are checked for hydration levels immediately after each days racing to ensure that they have enough fluids throughout a ride. Correct hydration must be vitally important to perform at the peak performance- Pros dont skimp on hydration or nutrition, if they do, risking running out of energy in the latter parts of a race. So reducing fluids compromises performance
1. Don't worry about the extra weight
2. Stop occasionally and top-up - this will take far more time than just carrying the extra
3. For top ups - https://refill.org.uk/get-the-refill-app/
Spot the churches along your regular routes. Lots of them have drinkable water in the graveyard watering taps.
Thanks for all the replies everyone
On a long cycling trip in Spain many years ago me and my buddy emptied our bottles. We refilled them from a stream. When we found a cafe a bit further on, we stopped for some food and also to refill the bottles with clean water. Only then did we realise how much crud was in the stream water. Luckily, we had no ill effects.
I'd rather finish a ride with an untouched extra bottle than any possibility of running out.
I get very thirsty and I do sweat a lot.
I am never so thirsty as when I reach down and discover that I even though I have filled the bottle, I left it on the side and didn't get it onto the bike. Mostly if I have visited someone.
Another thought: what percentage of all-up weight (bike+rider) is your bottle?
The smaller that number the less relevant it is.
Just go all “Bear Grylls” style. Recycle your pee and top up your water bottle.
good call on the puritabs id forgotten about those, ill get a few and keep them in my toolbag!
Unless you are at your ‘racing weight’ it makes bugger all difference carrying a second bottle. On a flat ride it makes even less difference. It all comes down to how much of a ‘drinker’ are you? By that I mean do you tend to need lots of fluids on a ride or very few? I sweat profusely even on a winter ride (and no, it’s not because I over dress) so I need lots of fluid intake to remain hydrated. I ride with guys who barely sweat at all and don’t even drink one full bottle full on a 75mile ride.
So it’s horses for courses really. I carry two 500ml bottles for anything over 50 miles, one energy drink, one plain water. I will top up at any stop, so often finish a ride with a full bottle of water. That doesn’t worry me in the slightest as I would rather have it and not need it than not have it and need it.
Having said that, there are very few places in the UK where you would be unable to get water if you were literally on your last legs, especially if you are riding on the road. If it worries you, why not carry puritabs instead of your full on water filter? Taste is pretty shit but they kill anything in the water and it will have the same effect upon drinking. We used them extensively in the Army when filling water bottles from streams etc. They are tiny and weigh nothing. Believe me, when you are in the Brecon Beacons, carrying 30kg of kit and tabbing over mountain after mountain as fast as you can and have run out of water you don’t care how shit it tastes when you find it!
PP
Even at 'racing weight' it's almost entirely psychological.
Adding 750ml will 'cost' you maybe 15 or 20 seconds on a ride with 1,000m of ascent - far less time than you'll spend fannying about by a stream or walking into a cafe and sheepishly asking for water, knowing you should buy something while you're there.
And once you've drunk the water your bike will be light once more!
I'm loving that analogy!
PP
And even nicer, the water you have consumed will mostly have been sweated and exhaled, so that extra 750g is mostly gone if you finish with an empty bottle, a little thirsty and the sweat mostly evaporated. Hence the overall weight of you and bike is less than at the start of the ride, and for zero cost. Beat that, weight weenies.
What do you call a "long ride"?
I use one 500ml bottle for rides of up to 75 miles. Did you know that you are not going to die if you are a little bit thirsty when you finish a ride?
Thats is not enough by miles, riding time 4+ hours Ideally you want 500mil per hour
I disagree. I read a very interesting article on marathon runners which showed that the best times were returned by runners who lost roughly 10% of their dody weight in water loss during the run. I hate people who post "research" without a source so I will try to find it and post a link to it.
Where did you get that figure of 500ml per hour from, what is your basis for quoting that as if it is an absolute?
I believe that too many people slavisly follow the figures quotes for elite athletes in events like the Tour when calculating their water intake. Firstly, I dont expect many people reading this are producing the power of riders like Froome so why are they basing their water intake on his requirements, I dont expect that they are calculating and basing their calorie intake for the day on his requirements.
Even though you also say "too many people slavisly follow the figures quotes for elite athletes" that seems to be what you're doing.
I'd also argue that 10% weight loss during a 2-hour race isn't healthy, even if it is the strategy chosen by those specific athletes.
I drink much less water on a steady ride in cool weather than, say, a hilly ride when it's warm and sunny so even suggesting a fixed amount per unit of distance or time is unhelpful.
The most reliable source of information on hydration, hyponatraemia, electrolytes and more I've found is Alex Hutchinson. Here are a couple of examples:
http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/how-to-avoid-overdrinking
http://sweatscience.com/drinking-during-exercise-maybe-you-dont-need-as-...
Alex also posted a blog entry about "a study that included an unverified claim that Haile Gebrselassie lost 10% of his body mass due to dehydration during his world record marathon run." Is this what you were referring to? The 10% figure is also raised in a subsequent discussion with Asker Jeukendrup. Both are on the first page of his posts tagged 'hydration' at http://sweatscience.com/tag/hydration/ while his more recent articles can be found at https://www.outsideonline.com/1745511/alex-hutchinson
No, what I am doing is keeping an open mind that there are alternative theories out there rather than just the one which is often quoted on this and other forums by amateur riders slavishly following the top professionals with no real ideawhy they are copying them.
I dont agree people are slavishly following this stuff, hydration is just like food fuelling for a ride, you do what works for you, usually through the painful experience, and it really really does hurt to keep riding if you get dehydration cramps in the legs, if you get it wrong as you push up the miles.
fwiw I did 80 miles yesterday, I went through 1.5-2 litres of water, and arguably didnt drink enough, as Id started to get a headache, and then I easily sunk about the same amount of liquid post ride, I think the weather was alot warmer than it had felt because the wind we were riding in kept us cooled down alot so you were sweating alot but didnt feel overly cooked to feel like you needed more water all the time, thats something Ill bear in mind next time I do a ride like that.
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