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Nearly hit a cyclist this morning!
Ok so "nearly hit" is a bit of an overstatement, but now I have your attention....
Travelling to work by car this morning (I know, I know - but it was raining...), I was approaching a set of traffic lights (on green - my right of way), when a cyclist dressed all in black, on a black bike with not a light in sight ambled out across the road. I say ambled as he was in no hurry, despite the cars - this particular stretch of road is a 60 mph limit.
It was about 8:10 in the morning so not exactly daylight yet but he did have two small reflective patches on his shoulder....
Anyway, a tap of the brakes and the world kept turning. My point fellow readers - is a reminder that self preservation is the order of the day! Remember lights and reflectives on these murky mornings!
Oh, and regardless of who has legal right of way - remember Newtons third law, paraphrased; in a collision, the smaller object usually loses!
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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58 comments
Follow the rules of the road put lights on your bike Thats the law at least in Ontario Canada I dont understand how someone can spend 1000plus for a bike and not a extra 50 for a simple light set up. My commuter bike has lights and reflecters on it just as my car. NPeople have to take there safty in there own hand and not others. It hard to see people on foot or bikes that are dressed in black at night time no matter what speed your traviling at or how clear your view is. put a light on your bike if your riding on the road at night.
I think you're all over reacting to a throwaway comment from the OP ref being safe while riding.. yes the newtons comment was patronising, but the intent was not worthy of two pages of bashing for it.
Oh, sorry..hang on.. this is the internet, ignore me, carry on. In fact where's my pitchfork... lets burn him!
screen-shot-2016-05-11-at-11-13-49-am.png
It wasn't intended to be patronising - merely a light hearted comment from a fellow bike rider... I think some of the posters here have their bib shorts on too tight!
But you're right, what was I thinking?! This is not just the internet, but a cycling forum - I've been lucky to get away without more liberal use of caps lock!
So, why was there that "threat" about the physics of cars vs bikes?
I don't know, I can't see any "threat"...
Only a light hearted comment that cyclists usually come off worse so be careful...
Anyway, lesson learned, the readers of road.cc are intellectually superior and do not need to be reminded or informed of anything.
I am however slightly confused as to why people who know everything would spend so much time on a site which predominately posts news and reviews? Presumably you also get annoyed at the entire advice section of this site? How dare some presumptuous journalist lecture you about which lights are best?! Or which jacket is best, or how to prep your bike for winter?
Well that's a strawman argument. We're not claiming to know everything and most of us welcome insights about cycling products and the like.
However, cyclists tend to get bullied on the road by motorists who don't even know the Highway Code correctly and then you come along and warn us about using lights or else the bigger, heavier vehicles will do us physical harm. Can you understand why that is considered victim blaming by a lot of us?
I totally appreciate the value of being easily seen and like most Road.cc readers, I take precautions, but if you're serious about improving road safety, then you need to get your message out to motorists so that they can take especial care when it's dark. They are the ones that can make the road safer.
I don't think I was victim blaming at all - in fact there was no victim in my story as nothing really happened. My post certainly wasn't intended this way.
I appreciate that you, and many other readers are seasoned cyclists, but there are plenty of lurkers and newbies reading this who may or may not comment. I may be preaching to the converted, but the message may also get beyond that and reach a wider audience. Also, once again - this was a light hearted post.
Don't get me wrong, the burden of saftey shouldn't be on the cyclist - and from a legal position, the driver of the more dangerous vehicle should take care. However, I think it's in all of our own interests to keep ourselves safe.
I know nothing else about this cyclist, or his route, for all I know it's entirely off road and this is the one point where he has to cross a busy road - but the fact is he did cross the road and it would have been wise to be wearing something more visible given the conditions, not a legal requirement, merely wise. Had this happened on a bright summer morning I wouldn't have said anything, but it wasn't a bright summers morning. Perhaps he thought that as a fully grown adult he would be easy to see - cars have headlights afterall. Perhaps he looked at the clock and figured suns up, must be light. Maybe he set off earlier than usual and wouldn't normally be riding in these conditions. Maybe it was his first time out and he's still learning - in fact if he is a newcomer to the sport it wouldn't surprise me if his new interest lead him to a forum such as this eventually, in which case he may see this thread - he almost certainly didn't notice me or my car as I slowed in plenty of time so he may be unaware of the situation entirely. Who knows.
As for getting the message across to motorists, I highly doubt the motorists in question are reading this forum but I do spend my fair share of time explaining to them that an inch isn't enough space for an overtake, or that overtaking then turning left immediatley isn't just highly annoying but potentially dangerous, or that cyclists are often travelling faster than you think - and need more space to stop than you think etc...
Okay, I accept that there was no malice in your post - we do sometimes get motorists trolling us with posts similar to this, so that probably got some of us jumping to the wrong conclusions.
There's a common misconception that "cyclists" form a cohesive group - there was even a case when some minister sent a warning letter to a cycling group (can't remember which one) about policing cyclists. In reality, there's little that we have in common except for enjoying cycling and as can often be seen in the comments, we don't tend to agree on much (except for poor driving standards by some motorists).
My view on "cyclists" is that we need to get as many idiots as possible out of cars and onto bikes/feet/public transport. That means that we'll get pedestrians staring at their phones whilst stepping into the road and cyclists not taking any reasonable steps to make themselves visible or safe. It's the job of the "rest of us" (i.e. everyone who considers themselves an experienced rider/driver) to ensure that we can cope with idiots being on the roads and to do what we can to let everyone get to where they want to go in a safe fashion.
There's always going to be dark clothed pedestrians and cyclists. Whenever you get through to one "idiot", there's always plenty more to take their place.
I may be a motorist, I'm also a cyclist (and a motorcyclist for that matter) but I'm certainly not a troll. I have ridden on, in, or around most forms of transport and like to think I am considerate and aware of the needs of others - but I'm also aware of other people's ignorance, mainly in the way that I'm aware of how their ignorance can affect me.
Speaking of motorbikes, during my CBT I was taught to treat every other person on the road as an idiot out to kill you; expect that bus to pull out infront of you, expect that car to cut you up, expect that lorry to change lanes without looking - and be plesantly surprised if they don't. Most of the time they don't pull out on you, or cut you up - but I always have a plan for if they do. I'm sure many of the cyclists on here ride the same way, but for those that don't - give it a try!
But that still comes across as patronising, and it's also not-thought-through, because most people take that assumption and conclude the way to keep safe is use a car. Not sure you can endorse that logic and rule out that logical conclusion
Oh dear. Plot well and truly lost.
That has cheered me up though, I can't take anything you say seriously now.
Wow this thread got out of hand... I know I said it was abandonned but I feel the need to try and explain myself one last time:
I was simply trying to say "take responsibility for your own safety" with an annecdote to support why it would be a good idea.
Yes other road users SHOULD be alert and aware at all times, and be extra cautious around vunerable road users. BUT the daily close pass videos on here are just one of many pieces of evidence proving that this doesnt always happen. I was alert and aware, so nothing happened this time - but I'm not the only driver on the road, and as we well know, not all drivers are cyclists!
Obviously you are free to cycle wearing what you want - and I support this. One of the greatest things about cycling is how accessible it is and I don't want to see compulsory rules around hi-viz, helmets, insurance etc ruin this great activity. BUT sometimes it's good to look after your own safety rather than rant about how others dont.
This isn't a lecture, I didn't get up in your face, or chase you round - you had to activley take time out of your day to click the link, read the thread, then type your response.
And as for quoting lines of highway code, unless you are wearing a helmet, light-coloured or flourescent clothing with reflective accessories (rule 59), have pedal reflectors and a red rear reflector (rule 60), you can pipe down.
In fact whilst the HC is out, rule 66 states that you should be considerate of other road users. This is obviously a broad statement, but I would argue that making yourself seen would fall under this.
Well done to the person trying to better the world by handing out lights to kids, but the person that honestly suggested I should have pulled the cyclist over and given him a cheap set of LED's can go sit on a rusty spoke.
There's been a real 50/50 split in attitudes on this thread and I just hope that the majority of those that read but didn't comment fall into the better category!
You can type away with anger if you wish - I couldn't care less. I'm off to ride a bike with lights and a hi-viz jacket - no pedal reflectors though...
I never have a problem seeing people or objects unlit and being able to avoid them at any time of day, it's called obeying the law and the HC. Mater who is 68 was driving us both to the rugby earlier this year, we both saw three guys on bikes with no lights (a couple of tab ends IIRC) coming along a badly lit old industrial area road. Oh yeah, they were three abreast too ... the horror!
Being aware of the extreme hazard you present to everyone else including other motorists is your first port of call when operating a killing machine, cossetted in your shell the mindset utterly changes for the vast majority. Everyone else should follow some set of rules you don't follow yourself and other hugely more vulnerable road users including those on foot should have to follow the same rules as you in your killing machine and/or modify their behaviour for your convenience! This is what is wrong with the way our society and law makers see the order of things and thus why so many people are killed and seriously injured with barely a blink. Police are happy to blame victims despite the criminals not following the rules, it's perverse.
I wonder how long it will take for those who have stabbed or shot someone blame their victim for not wearing a stab/bullet proof vest and police follow suit. Maybe if your daughter gets raped on the streets she'll be at fault for no anti rpae device and wearing an 'alluring' outfit?
Telling people to get themselves lit up and take responsibility for safety is bullshit, despite the advent of hugely better lights, hi-vis asunder plus improved streetlights matters have not improved one iota. It's always the vulnerable that are being asked to change their ways and not those that are doing the killing and maiming!
Nah. It's ok. BTBS is our resident ninja. Perfect eyesight and reactions. Processes every single thing in his field of vision perfectly each time. Of course, bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. Everyone always sees the cyclists the see, and doesn't see the ones they don't. BTBS just doesn't have enough self awareness to realise that the darkly dressed cyclists he doesn't see might actually exist, so this pretty much makes him the most dangerous driver.... one who isn't aware of the mistakes he can and does make.
Earlier this evening, as I was crossing the Caversham bridge, whilst on the bollard protected cycle route, I saw a small red 4x4 coming the other way, in the middle lane, who had no lights on, not even day light running lights, bit of an older car. He appeared to be lighting up what I took to be a cigarette. I think he put his headlights on when I mentioned it to him. It was not an Audi and no one got hurt.
Goodness, more people should jump down OP's throat and quick! How dare he post a light hearted safety reminder for those that may need to reconsider their attire for riding in low-light/low visibility conditions!!!!!!!
If cyclists want to stop being victimised for no apparent reason, stop treating others the same f*****g way, otherwise no progress will be made
I think the OP's self-stated point "a reminder that self preservation is the order of the day" is fair enough.
We know that others don't always honour their Highway Code obligations to preserve us from their two tonne tin cans, so it's sensible to take some basic precautions, even if not legally-required.
His point is pretty easy to get unless you're one of the non-driving cycling militia.
We keep hearing about drivers should be ready to do this and that but how about cyclists get ready not to do stupid shit whilst dressed like ninja's.
Seems to be some strange onus or heirarchy of attention that must be paid.
Drivers - pay attention at all times, have ESP and the ability to predict the future
Motorcyclists - still pay attention but filter as fast as you want and be ready to be in the right when someone changes lanes as you 120 between them. You're vulnerable and must be treated as such....even at 120.
Cyclists - you're smaller and will rarely kill anyone apart from yourself so you pretty much can do what you want unless you're riding a fixie. Ideally you should be wearing hi-viz, have lights and be sober but any or all of those above can be ditched and anything that happens to you probably won't be your fault. Drunk though a railway crossing....sad and tragic, trains need to slow down.
Pedestrians - do what the hell you want. Best form is to never break eye contact with a mobile phone and think about hazards for even a second. You have the moral highground, so off you go....."pedestrians have the right of way" THAT'S THE LAW YEAH!
A muppet ninja? Think I know who you are looking for...
bninja_kermit.jpg
Saw another example of your ninja cyclist going the other way to me this morning - all in black, on a black bike, with hood up, no lights, in the rain.
Couldn't help thinking "Muppet!" - would be quite easy for someone to miss them in the spray and cause another statistic.
I find it so hard to comprehend why people don't use lights when decent ones are so cheap and widely available.
Morgoth, but as some of the sarcastic (or not) responses point out, when we here the daily incidents of a mass pile up on the M6 it rarely tells us whether people went above and beyond the requirement.
"7 people killed in mass pile up on M6 after a black car, without reflective wheel trim, travelling below the average speed of 20mph above the limit collided with another vehicle that could be seen containing an occupant wearing black jeans and no hat"
Yes, OK, I take your point, but I think we are slightly at cross purposes. I will be the first to agree with you that drivers are crap, the media are crap, the law is crap and the way even the crap laws that we do have are enforced and applied is the crappiest of the crap.
But if it was me, I'd have some lights, I might or might not worry too much about what I was wearing but would probably not go all in black, and I wouldn't be ambling across a road in low light in the rain. The law and the environment we live in "should" allow this, I agree, but in practice at the moment I don't think it's wise to assume that all drivers will be as alert as our OP.
In all fairness, there's one or two 'round here where a bit of a slap would do no harm.
You can 'lump' cycling without lights/reflectors in with ignoring red lights, cycling up one-way streets etc. It's not really 'helping the cause' when (some) motorists are anti-cycling and looking for any reason to point the finger.
Was he in Kensington/Chelsea, as that might be allowed (and I definitely wouldn't know him if he's from around there): https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/parking-transport-and-streets/getting-around/cyc...
Possibly also Cambridgeshire: https://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/residents/travel-roads-and-parking/tra...
The pitchforks are out today! Maybe I’m easily taken for a ride (so to speak) but I got the impression that our OP friend was actually a cyclist who on this particular occasion happened to be driving, and was offering friendly advice. The Highway Code quotes would seem to be at least arguably satisfied by the fact that he did in fact see the cyclist in time and reacted accordingly; nonetheless it sounds like the cyclist hasn’t done himself any favours. Whilst I agree we shouldn’t bear anywhere near the duty of care that motorists should, due to the balance of risks etc, that doesn’t mean we have no responsibility at all.
I'm going to need to know how to find him though to pass the message on.
Was he from around Bristol?
Who needs the advice? The errant individual he encountered, not people reading road.cc.
Pointless posts like the OP's promote the erroneous idea that people who sometimes cycle are a homogenous collective (we are not) and we all need reminding about these things (we don't).
That's why we need to find this errant cyclist. Unfortunately, no-one's telling us where this happened.
Also, don't forget about the physicists that need reminding about Newton's Third Law - they get so bogged down with relativity/quantum mechanics that they forget about the much easier to use approximations. Though why that is here on a cycling forum is puzzling.
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