Conspicuity and safety

SteveAustin wrote:

You can do all the surveys, studies etc but you will never know if wearing hi-viz has saved you.

You cant record it, its impossible.

Is it worth making yourself as visible as possible? yes is the common sense answer

the alternative is to wear full black and suddenly appear out of the darkness to surprise the willing participant in your own demise.

Sorry but your supposition is completely without merit.

Firstly making yourself more visible isn't common sense, it's perceived wisdom, unfortunately this is totally incorrect as it has a cumulative negative effect on safety, this applies not just to the vulnerable but to everyone.

The continual lowering of responsibility of humans to slow down, take a bit of time to look, see, evaluate and then act on the information you've gathered has NEVER EVER WORKED. Lights, hi-vis as well as helmets do this in spades!

If you cannot see someone wearing black (or even unlit by any light) by the light of your own headlights then you need to slow down and drive at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear and/or get an eyesight check.

Your last sentence is classic victim blaming bullshit and people like you propagare this crap, it doesn't just make matters worse for me, it makes it worse for you as well. For gods sakes get yourself educated as to why you are completely wrong!

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

SteveAustin wrote:

You can do all the surveys, studies etc but you will never know if wearing hi-viz has saved you.

You cant record it, its impossible.

Is it worth making yourself as visible as possible? yes is the common sense answer

the alternative is to wear full black and suddenly appear out of the darkness to surprise the willing participant in your own demise.

Sorry but your supposition is completely without merit.

Firstly making yourself more visible isn't common sense, it's perceived wisdom, unfortunately this is totally incorrect as it has a cumulative negative effect on safety, this applies not just to the vulnerable but to everyone.

The continual lowering of responsibility of humans to slow down, take a bit of time to look, see, evaluate and then act on the information you've gathered has NEVER EVER WORKED. Lights, hi-vis as well as helmets do this in spades!

If you cannot see someone wearing black (or even unlit by any light) by the light of your own headlights then you need to slow down and drive at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear and/or get an eyesight check.

Your last sentence is classic victim blaming bullshit and people like you propagare this crap, it doesn't just make matters worse for me, it makes it worse for you as well. For gods sakes get yourself educated as to why you are completely wrong!

your arguments are that of a madman. non sensical, circular, drifting and completely without any possibility of being anywhere near wrong as they cover so many wild tangents, that you will always hit something right with your daft splatter gun posts. discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon, you will knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and strut about like you won.

i dont even think you're a real account. just a shill account meant to drum up interest in this site. 

SteveAustin wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

SteveAustin wrote:

You can do all the surveys, studies etc but you will never know if wearing hi-viz has saved you.

You cant record it, its impossible.

Is it worth making yourself as visible as possible? yes is the common sense answer

the alternative is to wear full black and suddenly appear out of the darkness to surprise the willing participant in your own demise.

Sorry but your supposition is completely without merit.

Firstly making yourself more visible isn't common sense, it's perceived wisdom, unfortunately this is totally incorrect as it has a cumulative negative effect on safety, this applies not just to the vulnerable but to everyone.

The continual lowering of responsibility of humans to slow down, take a bit of time to look, see, evaluate and then act on the information you've gathered has NEVER EVER WORKED. Lights, hi-vis as well as helmets do this in spades!

If you cannot see someone wearing black (or even unlit by any light) by the light of your own headlights then you need to slow down and drive at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear and/or get an eyesight check.

Your last sentence is classic victim blaming bullshit and people like you propagare this crap, it doesn't just make matters worse for me, it makes it worse for you as well. For gods sakes get yourself educated as to why you are completely wrong!

 

your arguments are that of a madman. non sensical, circular, drifting and completely without any possibility of being anywhere near wrong as they cover so many wild tangents, that you will always hit something right with your daft splatter gun posts. discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon, you will knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and strut about like you won.

i dont even think you're a real account. just a shill account meant to drum up interest in this site. 

In all fairness to BTBS, I'd imagine some people might say the same about you, Steve Austin...

brooksby wrote:

SteveAustin wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

SteveAustin wrote:

You can do all the surveys, studies etc but you will never know if wearing hi-viz has saved you.

You cant record it, its impossible.

Is it worth making yourself as visible as possible? yes is the common sense answer

the alternative is to wear full black and suddenly appear out of the darkness to surprise the willing participant in your own demise.

Sorry but your supposition is completely without merit.

Firstly making yourself more visible isn't common sense, it's perceived wisdom, unfortunately this is totally incorrect as it has a cumulative negative effect on safety, this applies not just to the vulnerable but to everyone.

The continual lowering of responsibility of humans to slow down, take a bit of time to look, see, evaluate and then act on the information you've gathered has NEVER EVER WORKED. Lights, hi-vis as well as helmets do this in spades!

If you cannot see someone wearing black (or even unlit by any light) by the light of your own headlights then you need to slow down and drive at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear and/or get an eyesight check.

Your last sentence is classic victim blaming bullshit and people like you propagare this crap, it doesn't just make matters worse for me, it makes it worse for you as well. For gods sakes get yourself educated as to why you are completely wrong!

 

your arguments are that of a madman. non sensical, circular, drifting and completely without any possibility of being anywhere near wrong as they cover so many wild tangents, that you will always hit something right with your daft splatter gun posts. discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon, you will knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and strut about like you won.

i dont even think you're a real account. just a shill account meant to drum up interest in this site. 

In all fairness to BTBS, I'd imagine some people might say the same about you, Steve Austin...

hey ill admit i post a fair bit of silliness. but it is just that: silliness.

rambling madness? ill leave that to others

SteveAustin wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

SteveAustin wrote:

You can do all the surveys, studies etc but you will never know if wearing hi-viz has saved you.

You cant record it, its impossible.

Is it worth making yourself as visible as possible? yes is the common sense answer

the alternative is to wear full black and suddenly appear out of the darkness to surprise the willing participant in your own demise.

Sorry but your supposition is completely without merit.

Firstly making yourself more visible isn't common sense, it's perceived wisdom, unfortunately this is totally incorrect as it has a cumulative negative effect on safety, this applies not just to the vulnerable but to everyone.

The continual lowering of responsibility of humans to slow down, take a bit of time to look, see, evaluate and then act on the information you've gathered has NEVER EVER WORKED. Lights, hi-vis as well as helmets do this in spades!

If you cannot see someone wearing black (or even unlit by any light) by the light of your own headlights then you need to slow down and drive at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear and/or get an eyesight check.

Your last sentence is classic victim blaming bullshit and people like you propagare this crap, it doesn't just make matters worse for me, it makes it worse for you as well. For gods sakes get yourself educated as to why you are completely wrong!

 

your arguments are that of a madman. non sensical, circular, drifting and completely without any possibility of being anywhere near wrong as they cover so many wild tangents, that you will always hit something right with your daft splatter gun posts. discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon, you will knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and strut about like you won.

i dont even think you're a real account. just a shill account meant to drum up interest in this site. 

Hahahahaha, so what you're saying is you don't have the mental capacity to understand basic concepts, right, got it.

If you think I'm a shill for this site then I would suggest you get some help, your inability to grasp matters could be really problematic if you get let out amongst joe public.

SteveAustin wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

...angry ranting at Steve Austin...

your arguments are that of a madman. non sensical, circular, drifting and completely without any possibility of being anywhere near wrong as they cover so many wild tangents, that you will always hit something right with your daft splatter gun posts. discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon, you will knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and strut about like you won.

i dont even think you're a real account. just a shill account meant to drum up interest in this site. 

There have been many accusations cast at BehindTheBikesheds, but I think we can all agree that he is not a shill for this site.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Firstly making yourself more visible isn't common sense, it's perceived wisdom, unfortunately this is totally incorrect as it has a cumulative negative effect on safety, this applies not just to the vulnerable but to everyone.

That would just lead to pedestrians, cyclists, drivers not using lights and relying on moonlight to

see.

"perceived wisdom" - I'm not really sure what that is supposed to convey.

hirsute wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Firstly making yourself more visible isn't common sense, it's perceived wisdom, unfortunately this is totally incorrect as it has a cumulative negative effect on safety, this applies not just to the vulnerable but to everyone.

That would just lead to pedestrians, cyclists, drivers not using lights and relying on moonlight to

see.

"perceived wisdom" - I'm not really sure what that is supposed to convey.

you out yourself as clueless, where did I say not to use a front light for motorists? IF one is going slow enough that you can stop in time for the distance you can see which is exactly what the HC states then yes, lights would not be required. However every motorist want to go faster than 10mph at night so have front lights. And as the need, no actually greed and selfishness to go faster (which in itself poses greater threat of harm to others) brighter lights have been brought in, yet this has reduced safety of motorists AND importantly safety of other road users because it does indice faster driving, to a point that drivers do not drive at a speed they can stop in that distance they can see to be clear. This is all too apparent with the night time crashes. You're basically saying that if its unlit then that absolves the motorist of their responsiblity which contradicts one of the most important aspects of the HC!

My argument as you've clearly missed completely is that telling those most at risk and travelling slower to put on supposed conspicuousy aids (so that those posing the harm can travel faster/pose more harm) does not and never has increased safety, it diverts responsibility away from those posing the danger and as we've seen, this forces wearing special uniform, special equipment and absolving blame when someone is injured or killed. Even the police, government and many organisations as indeed individuals like you and the person I responded to believe this, as I said, it's classic victim blaming, and precisely why the then CTC in the 1920s/30s objected vehemently against the Act of parliament (it's NOT a law) to force people to use a rear light under threat of penalty. This rear light/conspicuousy hasn't done dick to change safety.

Maybe you think kids walking home from scchool with no hi-vis/flashlight during winter months deserve to get run over by criminal motorists, maybe you think women who are raped on the streets should have been wearing multi layered outfits, had an anti rape device and a scream alarm or not even bother leaving the home at all otherwise they'd be at fault for being raped ... well?

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

I swear drivers are like moths to a light sometimes. Lit up like a christmas tree and twats still manage to only just pass you or pull out in front of you.

I remember reading an article which was discussing how police and emergency vehicles at the side of the road often get hit by drunk drivers: they follow the brightest light source, and flashing/blinking makes it worse. So there is an argument for bright Blinkies making it *more* likely that you'll get hit by someone...

Canyon48 wrote:

My 800 lumen flashing light does seem to get drivers actually looking at me more often.

Quite possibly - I think it's contrast with the surroundings that's key. The contrast could be light, colour or movement - a powerful lamp gives you two of those, especially now that bike LEDs are powerful enough to stand out even in bright daylight.

Duncann wrote:

What do you think about this study?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925753517313528

saw that coming a mile off