Anyone eaten a Mars Bar PROTEIN?

barongreenback wrote:

I work in London and there's a kiosk outside Canary Wharf underground station called 'Protein Haus'.  Their products aren't being sold to serious brain dead London wankers...

FTFY

Simon E wrote:

You don't  need Mars bars and you don't need whey powder.

Eat real food.

Having said that, I have to admit that I do enjoy eating a Snickers during a long ride but I would not want or need a 'protein' version.

Of course you don't need it, but it's dead convenient. I use protein drinks on fasted rides, and my long rides, to stave off hunger. These protein snacks and powders etc can have a place.

davel wrote:

Simon E wrote:

You don't  need Mars bars and you don't need whey powder.

Eat real food.

Having said that, I have to admit that I do enjoy eating a Snickers during a long ride but I would not want or need a 'protein' version.

Of course you don't need it, but it's dead convenient. I use protein drinks on fasted rides, and my long rides, to stave off hunger. These protein snacks and powders etc can have a place.

Slightly confused; if you're using a protein drink on (or before) a fasted ride, it's not a fasted ride....

And protein snacks and powders can have a place, but it's one that is better filled and taken by real food.

madcarew wrote:

davel wrote:

Simon E wrote:

You don't  need Mars bars and you don't need whey powder.

Eat real food.

Having said that, I have to admit that I do enjoy eating a Snickers during a long ride but I would not want or need a 'protein' version.

Of course you don't need it, but it's dead convenient. I use protein drinks on fasted rides, and my long rides, to stave off hunger. These protein snacks and powders etc can have a place.

Slightly confused; if you're using a protein drink on (or before) a fasted ride, it's not a fasted ride....

And protein snacks and powders can have a place, but it's one that is better filled and taken by real food.

Most of the time I neck it when I get to work, but according to the British Cycling 'science' (to be fair, most of the sciencey stuff I've read lately appears to support it) you still get the fasted ride benefits if you take a protein drink on it. Follow this link, but prepare to increase your confusion... https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/nutrition/article/izn2015081...

But enough of the Real Food FTW!!! bollocks comments that accompany these articles. One word, and one word only, matters here, and that word is confuckingvenience.

I tend not to carry a roast lunch with me on a 6 hour trek into the North Wales hills, and I tend not to have a full breakfast laid out when I get into work. To bang on about 'real food' here is missing the point.

davel wrote:

One word, and one word only, matters here, and that word is confuckingvenience.

I tend not to carry a roast lunch with me on a 6 hour trek into the North Wales hills, and I tend not to have a full breakfast laid out when I get into work. To bang on about 'real food' here is missing the point.

Is this all a bit tongue-in-cheek or have we hit a nerve?

I don't see anything inconvenient about carrying a flapjack or a sarnie, a couple of bananas or even stopping at a <cough> 'convenience' store to buy a snack.

Most of us get more than adequate protein in a normal, healthy diet. People walked and cycled just as far before powdered energy and protein products were marketed as substitutes for normal food. OTOH if  powdered protein works for you then go ahead, no-one will mind.

Simon E wrote:

davel wrote:

One word, and one word only, matters here, and that word is confuckingvenience.

I tend not to carry a roast lunch with me on a 6 hour trek into the North Wales hills, and I tend not to have a full breakfast laid out when I get into work. To bang on about 'real food' here is missing the point.

Is this all a bit tongue-in-cheek or have we hit a nerve?

I don't see anything inconvenient about carrying a flapjack or a sarnie, a couple of bananas or even stopping at a <cough> 'convenience' store to buy a snack.

Most of us get more than adequate protein in a normal, healthy diet. People walked and cycled just as far before powdered energy and protein products were marketed as substitutes for normal food. OTOH if  powdered protein works for you then go ahead, no-one will mind.

No nerve hit, sweetie, but it isn't all tongue-in-cheek either. I'm just calling out your blinkered generalisation for the bullshit it is. It might occur to you that it is *just*possible that some people prefer to pack a couple of bottles over digging out a soggy sarnie from their back pocket or stopping at the first convenience store 'cough' Spar 'cough' that you might find, in the middle of nowhere, park your bike somewhere that you hope the locals won't nick it from, and then realise that what passes for 'real food' is a packaged pastie. But hey, if you want to consider shit pastry wrapped round ringpiece and cartilage 'real food' then go ahead, no-one will mind.

And sure, most people get enough protein from their diets. But most people are lazy bastards who consider walking to their car 'exercise' and eat too much anyway.

Also.... Events. I've done half/full irons where the vast majority of food and drink is High 5 stuff and the like. If you haven't got used to that as part of your training, it's welcome to shitsville, or bonkville, or both. I'm yet to see any portable kitchens in T1.

Spouting about real food on a post about a protein bar is as relevant as posting a review on Gaucho that says 'nice steaks, but I struggled to squeeze my meal into my back pocket'.

[/quote] No nerve hit, sweetie, but it isn't all tongue-in-cheek either. I'm just calling out your blinkered generalisation for the bullshit it is. ...And sure, most people get enough protein from their diets. ...Spouting about real food on a post about a protein bar is as relevant as posting a review on Gaucho that says 'nice steaks, but I struggled to squeeze my meal into my back pocket'.[/quote]

Your blinkered view is that somehow a protein shake or bar is better / more conveninet / more appropriate than a meusli bar / banana / flap jack etc. It isn't. The fact that it has protein in it is inconsefuckingquential (to coin a phrase). You have drunk the kool aid. You might dive for that protein mars bar instead of the standard mars bar, but there is not one whit of scientific evidence that it holds any gain or advantage over the standard mars bar at all. 

Most people get enough protein  way more protein than necessary from their standard diet, unless they are a body builder. (Most studies show that active, non -professional, endurance athletes  have entirely adequate protein intake at 1g / kg per day - maintenance level for sedentary male = .75g / kg / day)  The national average of protein intake is 1.1 g/ kg per day, so even as an ironman, the average person consumes more than adequate protein to supply their needs, without needing to resort to pulling soggy pastry and ringpiece out of their back pocket. BTW, as an ironman you develop very little muscle mass. Arguably your protein requirements are little higher than Joe couch-potato Smith of Acacia Grove, TV land. 

madcarew wrote:

 

davel wrote:

No nerve hit, sweetie, but it isn't all tongue-in-cheek either. I'm just calling out your blinkered generalisation for the bullshit it is. ...And sure, most people get enough protein from their diets. ...Spouting about real food on a post about a protein bar is as relevant as posting a review on Gaucho that says 'nice steaks, but I struggled to squeeze my meal into my back pocket'.

Your blinkered view is that somehow a protein shake or bar is better / more conveninet / more appropriate than a meusli bar / banana / flap jack etc. It isn't. The fact that it has protein in it is inconsefuckingquential (to coin a phrase). You have drunk the kool aid. You might dive for that protein mars bar instead of the standard mars bar, but there is not one whit of scientific evidence that it holds any gain or advantage over the standard mars bar at all. 

Most people get enough protein  way more protein than necessary from their standard diet, unless they are a body builder. (Most studies show that active, non -professional, endurance athletes  have entirely adequate protein intake at 1g / kg per day - maintenance level for sedentary male = .75g / kg / day)  The national average of protein intake is 1.1 g/ kg per day, so even as an ironman, the average person consumes more than adequate protein to supply their needs, without needing to resort to pulling soggy pastry and ringpiece out of their back pocket. BTW, as an ironman you develop very little muscle mass. Arguably your protein requirements are little higher than Joe couch-potato Smith of Acacia Grove, TV land. 

This will sound like I'm fat , but given my history in sprinting, boxing, rugby and swimming, I'm a bit lumpier than your average ironman. I do ok though... but better at half/ limpics.

Again, not defending this particular product, whose prime market has to be impressionable non-athletes. But I am defending convenient nutrition, and knocking the shit out of the usual preachers making the usual criticisms that don't even make sense ' you don't want that - you want real food - like, er, a muesli bar, or, er...  a load of oats welded together with butter and sugar, or, er....... a gel'. Banana - yep, agreed. Again, you're arguing points I'm not making - where have I defended the Mars Protein?

Or actual real food, like a 'steak dinner', or 'chicken and quinoa'. Great - I'll just squeeze a hob and pans into my saddlebag.

And it isn't about daily protein needs - it's how much protein you can process at a time (roughly 20g/hr off the top of my head), and how much is just a waste. I dare say a bodybuilder or athlete could put this silly bar to some use.

Also, stop breaking the quote tags.

davel wrote:

No nerve hit, sweetie, but it isn't all tongue-in-cheek either. I'm just calling out your blinkered generalisation for the bullshit it is.

Oh dear. I might have bothered to read the rest as I'm always ready to learn from people who know better than me and reconsider my PoV. I don't care how many hours/miles/bench presses or whatever you do, engaging condescending twat mode puts me right off.

davel wrote:

madcarew wrote:

davel wrote:

Simon E wrote:

You don't  need Mars bars and you don't need whey powder.

Eat real food.

Having said that, I have to admit that I do enjoy eating a Snickers during a long ride but I would not want or need a 'protein' version.

Of course you don't need it, but it's dead convenient. I use protein drinks on fasted rides, and my long rides, to stave off hunger. These protein snacks and powders etc can have a place.

Slightly confused; if you're using a protein drink on (or before) a fasted ride, it's not a fasted ride....

And protein snacks and powders can have a place, but it's one that is better filled and taken by real food.

Most of the time I neck it when I get to work, but according to the British Cycling 'science' (to be fair, most of the sciencey stuff I've read lately appears to support it) you still get the fasted ride benefits if you take a protein drink on it. Follow this link, but prepare to increase your confusion... https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/nutrition/article/izn2015081... But enough of the Real Food FTW!!! bollocks comments that accompany these articles. One word, and one word only, matters here, and that word is confuckingvenience. I tend not to carry a roast lunch with me on a 6 hour trek into the North Wales hills, and I tend not to have a full breakfast laid out when I get into work. To bang on about 'real food' here is missing the point.

Yep, I've done Iron man too. Real food: Meusli bars, flap jacks, banana. If you look in the aid stations on IM you'll notice crisps, and cheese sandwiches, and all sort sof other goodies.  Here's the point. A protein drink, or bar, is entirely unnecessary. Reference the British cycling article, to quote "if in a fully fasted  state": They don't go on to define "fully fasted" but by their implication it is amine depleted state as well. This means you haven't eaten protein at all in the previous 24 hours and (probably) have done vigorous exercise previous to the fast. If you are not amine depleted the protein will simply (as is most protein you ingest) be converted to energy via the citirc acid cyle so it's not really a fasted ride. Again, there is little point in taking on board protein during exercise except to provide immediate access to amino acides during the immediate post exercise recovery phase as the body is largely unable to utilise protein (amino acids) for muscle repair during exercise (unless you're a husky). Multiple studies have shown (see Stannard et al, meta study) which illuminates that unless your food contains WADA illegal substances there is no performance advantage available over normal food from any drink or other supplement. So, take your calories as complex carbs and fat, either in your drink or in food, during exercise (or proetin if you like) and you will gain all the performance benefits of any gel / superbar / protein shake etc etc. Convenience? If you want a mars bar, knock yourself out, but the fact that it is 'protein enriched' conveys no performance or fuelling advantage what so ever.

The only reason your 'protein drink' staves off hunger is because it is providing you with calories, ( a steak will produce an insulin peak similar to that of the same caloric value of rice) and because protein is somewhat slower to digest so provides those calories ( approx 20%) slower than the equivalent intake or carbs.

As for fasted riding, last weekend I did a 12 mile TTT (av  28 mph) followed by a 40 mile road race (av 26 mph) and the only thing I had to eat all day prior or during racing was 3 cups of coffee, a banana and a gel (for confuckingvenience). I do it, I get it, and I simply eat 'real food'. 

madcarew wrote:

davel wrote:

madcarew wrote:

davel wrote:

Simon E wrote:

You don't  need Mars bars and you don't need whey powder.

Eat real food.

Having said that, I have to admit that I do enjoy eating a Snickers during a long ride but I would not want or need a 'protein' version.

Of course you don't need it, but it's dead convenient. I use protein drinks on fasted rides, and my long rides, to stave off hunger. These protein snacks and powders etc can have a place.

Slightly confused; if you're using a protein drink on (or before) a fasted ride, it's not a fasted ride....

And protein snacks and powders can have a place, but it's one that is better filled and taken by real food.

Most of the time I neck it when I get to work, but according to the British Cycling 'science' (to be fair, most of the sciencey stuff I've read lately appears to support it) you still get the fasted ride benefits if you take a protein drink on it. Follow this link, but prepare to increase your confusion... https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/nutrition/article/izn2015081... But enough of the Real Food FTW!!! bollocks comments that accompany these articles. One word, and one word only, matters here, and that word is confuckingvenience. I tend not to carry a roast lunch with me on a 6 hour trek into the North Wales hills, and I tend not to have a full breakfast laid out when I get into work. To bang on about 'real food' here is missing the point.

Yep, I've done Iron man too. Real food: Meusli bars, flap jacks, banana. If you look in the aid stations on IM you'll notice crisps, and cheese sandwiches, and all sort sof other goodies.  Here's the point. A protein drink, or bar, is entirely unnecessary. Reference the British cycling article, to quote "if in a fully fasted  state": They don't go on to define "fully fasted" but by their implication it is amine depleted state as well. This means you haven't eaten protein at all in the previous 24 hours and (probably) have done vigorous exercise previous to the fast. If you are not amine depleted the protein will simply (as is most protein you ingest) be converted to energy via the citirc acid cyle so it's not really a fasted ride. Again, there is little point in taking on board protein during exercise except to provide immediate access to amino acides during the immediate post exercise recovery phase as the body is largely unable to utilise protein (amino acids) for muscle repair during exercise (unless you're a husky). Multiple studies have shown (see Stannard et al, meta study) which illuminates that unless your food contains WADA illegal substances there is no performance advantage available over normal food from any drink or other supplement. So, take your calories as complex carbs and fat, either in your drink or in food, during exercise (or proetin if you like) and you will gain all the performance benefits of any gel / superbar / protein shake etc etc. Convenience? If you want a mars bar, knock yourself out, but the fact that it is 'protein enriched' conveys no performance or fuelling advantage what so ever.

The only reason your 'protein drink' staves off hunger is because it is providing you with calories, ( a steak will produce an insulin peak similar to that of the same caloric value of rice) and because protein is somewhat slower to digest so provides those calories ( approx 20%) slower than the equivalent intake or carbs.

As for fasted riding, last weekend I did a 12 mile TTT (av  28 mph) followed by a 40 mile road race (av 26 mph) and the only thing I had to eat all day prior or during racing was 3 cups of coffee, a banana and a gel (for confuckingvenience). I do it, I get it, and I simply eat 'real food'. 

You're arguing points that I haven't even made... Most of that ramble is about eating protein during exercise. I don't give a shit about that particular point; the Mars bar referred to doesn't have a 'MUST BE EATEN DURING EXERCISE' note slapped on it. I'm not defending this particular product, but saying that the convenience of powders etc have their place. I do what works for me, and don't feel the need to brag to some randoms about averages (do put it away, love - it really isn't that impressive).

This is massively subjective and it isn't solely me getting my knickers in a knot. Flapjack and muesli bars are 'real food' now? Bullshit - you don't sit around eating them for main meals. We all make choices on the 'convenience' scale. My point, and it's really fucking obvious, is that whenever there's an article about any overpriced timesaver, or newfangled thing, the usual suspects fall over themselves to say 'you don't need ..... '. I believe the technical term is 'dickheads on the internet'. The 'real food' argument is spurious here, given that your own examples contain much of what I wouldn't call 'real food'.