[trohos]

Hi everybody.

This topic isn’t for bikes, is for life, is for a little girl (8 years) who needs your help.

Her name is evaggelia- stiliani kastrinaki is from the island Crete in Greece. Suffers from Wilms tumor and Her parents want to transfer her in england in the Harley Street Clinic due to in Greece doctors says they can do nothing else. 

If you want to help ask alexandros kastrinakis is her father.

email: ale-kastrinos@hotmail.com

tel: +306999685448

https://www.news.gr/ellada/article/677796/eranos-gia-tin-8chroni-evangelia-pou-dini-machi-gia-ti-zoi-tis.html

http://www.star.gr/ellada/382902/eyaggelia-kastrinakh

Please notify.

 

Topic

[trohos]

 Hey Bros

 Hey Bros

I didn’t created this topic for the Greek problem, i created it because i thought  that maybe someone wants or can help that little girl. If you want to discuss for the Greek problem, i want to say a lot but please, not in this topic!

Thank you.

[davel]

Leviathan wrote:

Leviathan wrote:

Davel, I don’t know what gave you the impression that I don’t know about the subject; perhaps it is more likely you didn’t like what I said so decided I must be ignorant, the fallacy of opposition.

Bit from column B, more from column A.

I think you know more than this quote suggests, and suspected you were being glib, but then, you typed the words, so I called you out on it.

“If the Greek government (over many decades) enforced taxation and a normal retirement age then you wouldn’t be in so much debt. Maybe your health system would be adequate to help this little girl if many of your people did not condone a culture of back-handers.”

I’m not saying this isn’t a factor, but the omission of many others (Greece’s post-war history and the type of political parties they’ve had, the EU and recent austerity, their inability to drop out of the Euro and devalue their own currency when EVERYONE could see that was the best path) makes the poster, on face value, appear woefully ignorant.

By the way, I noticed you also mentioned the ‘C’ word. I really don’t see a conspiracy in this. I don’t think it was the master plan of Goldman Sachs to shaft Greece or take over the EU. But they do have a history of behaving dismally. They have a policy of taking on ex-senior politicians, including of the EU/Commission, and many of their management now have very senior EU/member nation/Commission posts.

Again, this in itself isn’t a conspiracy, and in this, GS aren’t doing anything ‘wrong’.

What it is, is a counter to people who think that the EU is still the post-WW2-let’s-not-fight-anymore club. The pervasive worldview, if there is one, is more likely to be that banking and capital is what makes the world go around and must be supported at all costs. I think we saw that with Greece, and the austerity-led shit that has happened there so that, ultimately, an arbitrary number could be plugged into European banks’ balance sheets, convinced me that the EU isn’t what it should be – and can no longer be what it should be.

Disclosure: I’m not an ‘all banks are bad’ hippy. I’ve made a tidy living working for banks for the last 15 years – initially for the UK’s (Europe’s and also the world’s, for a time) biggest bank, then for one of the US’s biggest (not Goldman but we did a lot of business with them), and currently at a European bank, passported into the UK – working on implementing EU regs, at the mo. Banks are needed, but I don’t think there should be a revolving door between them and the bodies that have to hold them to account. Brexit could yet be a horror show for my circumstances, but I voted on principle.

Plus I don’t like Romanians. *joke*

[davel]

Kadinkski wrote:

Kadinkski wrote:

davel wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

davel wrote:

Well it’s clear you haven’t been following too closely. Research which countries export the most to Greece and benefited most from its inception into the EU. Research which vampire squid of a bank has its ex-employees scattered throughout the EU and helped Greece cook its books to enable membership. Research the key reasons that the troika held Greece’s hand to the fire during debt and Grexit ‘discussions’, and where the banks that hold the debt are based. Research what has happened to the Greek employment, suicide, HIV and AIDS rates (mainly among the young ‘uns) since the credit crisis Then you might not put the blame at Greece’s door in such a simplistic manner.

I hate it when people post about “do your own research”. This is a well known tactic used by conspiracy buffs to hoodwink people with poor researching skills into believing a whole load of tripe (e.g. chemtrails, flat earth, electric pyramids etc).

If you’ve done any research and have knowledge, then share it around, otherwise shut up about it.

Oh fuck off. You really don’t want me to post this in its entirety, but for the eejits who can’t infer the key points: Greek debt crisis led to massive spikes in HIV, AIDS, suicides and unemployment among innocent citizens, mainly of the younger generation who hadn’t had a chance to tax dodge. Hence the idiocy of the ‘if you hadn’t dodged tax…’ argument, one not espoused by Paul Mason (name checked by Leviathan). German and French (mainly) banks held most of the debt that the troika were chasing down – the troika that was peppered with Goldman Sachs employees, the same Goldman Sachs that encouraged Greece to fiddle their accounts to get EU and Euro membership in the first place. The troika, Germany (Schauble being the bulldog) and the EU, during negotiations with Greece, decided that bouncing back to the drachma was not an option, and that a certain number of Greek lives being fucked via the ongoing austerity was worth the banks receiving a certain amount of their debt back. Germany stood to gain massively through its exports (incl defence) to Greece being in the same currency. They turned a blind eye to the dodginess during the Greek accession. If you think that’s flat earthery, I salute the naivete of your worldview.

 

Why not just say all that in the first place? 

It was all there in my first post – just not spelled out. That some people need to read The Ladybird Book of What Just Happened In Europe isn’t really my fault.

[FluffyKittenofTindalos]

Leviathan wrote:

Leviathan wrote:

I didn’t vote for Brexit, or Trump of course, but it has lead to a rise in far-right violence and anti-Semitism. Was that the intention of the voters, mostly no, but the far-right was emboldened. Call it the Butterfly Effect if you will, but what you do does have effect on the world and every time you bend the law, look the other way, can’t be bothered to vote, run a red light on pedestrian lights, other people take note and adjust their view. The Greeks had many years to admit they cooked the books, many years to put their house in order. Post rationalization is a wonderful form of political nostalgia: “Well of course there was no £350m,” “We though Trump would be different once he was elected” NO you don’t get off the hook, you had the information at the time but ignored it, you are complicity, you chose this.

Well, exactly, those who uncritically supported the EU for all those years, while failing to address it’s multiple dysfunctions, and who failed to avert the Euro fiasco, don’t get off the hook when those failures led to Brexit.

The Euro was a bad idea, badly executed, and run far too much with the interests of the Northern European (especially German) elites in mind. Brexit, undoubtedly itself a very bad idea, was partly a consequence of that cock-up.

[Leviathan]

Blimey. I didn’t intend to

Blimey. I didn’t intend to raise the spectre of internet conspiracies; in this case the research is from contemporary sources, not thousand year old books. Davel, I don’t know what gave you the impression that I don’t know about the subject; perhaps it is more likely you didn’t like what I said so decided I must be ignorant, the fallacy of opposition.

There is collective responsibly, and no responsibility at the same time. That is why I used the word ‘culture.’ Everyday actions can lead to other people making  decisions that effect everyone (yes that is a reference to RLJs.) The young are less to blame for the political climate in their country, but they don’t appear in a vacuum. I doubt many other people would sit through an hour watching Paul Mason’s play about recent political upheaval; I found it quite pathetic the Greek characters [directly drawn from interviews] comparisons between what is happening in their country and other uprisings in the Arab Spring, their romantic notions of anarchy like the Paris Commune as they glugged the last Ouzo. Watching their finance minister blaming the Germans and demanding reparations for WW2 on C4 News whilst browsing abandoned Olympic venues on Buzzfeed, it’s was all quite laughable.

I didn’t vote for Brexit, or Trump of course, but it has lead to a rise in far-right violence and anti-Semitism. Was that the intention of the voters, mostly no, but the far-right was emboldened. Call it the Butterfly Effect if you will, but what you do does have effect on the world and every time you bend the law, look the other way, can’t be bothered to vote, run a red light on pedestrian lights, other people take note and adjust their view. The Greeks had many years to admit they cooked the books, many years to put their house in order. Post rationalization is a wonderful form of political nostalgia: “Well of course there was no £350m,” “We though Trump would be different once he was elected” NO you don’t get off the hook, you had the information at the time but ignored it, you are complicity, you chose this.

If you haven’t already seen The Big Short already, see it. It is fascinating to see people realizing that our own ignorance and hubris can lead to disaster when we collectively pursued ourselves that something is ‘alright.’ All I am saying is ordinary people do have power and choice and blaming institutions for problems that stem from their own choices isn’t right. Boy do we all love a bubble, tulip anyone?

‘Who drove their car into the crowd, Hillary’s emails?” – Tina Fey

[Kadinkski]

davel wrote:

davel wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

davel wrote:

Well it’s clear you haven’t been following too closely. Research which countries export the most to Greece and benefited most from its inception into the EU. Research which vampire squid of a bank has its ex-employees scattered throughout the EU and helped Greece cook its books to enable membership. Research the key reasons that the troika held Greece’s hand to the fire during debt and Grexit ‘discussions’, and where the banks that hold the debt are based. Research what has happened to the Greek employment, suicide, HIV and AIDS rates (mainly among the young ‘uns) since the credit crisis Then you might not put the blame at Greece’s door in such a simplistic manner.

I hate it when people post about “do your own research”. This is a well known tactic used by conspiracy buffs to hoodwink people with poor researching skills into believing a whole load of tripe (e.g. chemtrails, flat earth, electric pyramids etc).

If you’ve done any research and have knowledge, then share it around, otherwise shut up about it.

Oh fuck off. You really don’t want me to post this in its entirety, but for the eejits who can’t infer the key points: Greek debt crisis led to massive spikes in HIV, AIDS, suicides and unemployment among innocent citizens, mainly of the younger generation who hadn’t had a chance to tax dodge. Hence the idiocy of the ‘if you hadn’t dodged tax…’ argument, one not espoused by Paul Mason (name checked by Leviathan). German and French (mainly) banks held most of the debt that the troika were chasing down – the troika that was peppered with Goldman Sachs employees, the same Goldman Sachs that encouraged Greece to fiddle their accounts to get EU and Euro membership in the first place. The troika, Germany (Schauble being the bulldog) and the EU, during negotiations with Greece, decided that bouncing back to the drachma was not an option, and that a certain number of Greek lives being fucked via the ongoing austerity was worth the banks receiving a certain amount of their debt back. Germany stood to gain massively through its exports (incl defence) to Greece being in the same currency. They turned a blind eye to the dodginess during the Greek accession. If you think that’s flat earthery, I salute the naivete of your worldview.

 

Why not just say all that in the first place? 

[Sniffer]

Sometimes you can read the

Sometimes you can read the first part of a new thread and know it will kick off quick.

I am glad it didn’t disappoint.

[hawkinspeter]

Not saying anything because I

Not saying anything because I’ve already fucked off.

[davel]

hawkinspeter wrote:

I can’t believe you just told dottigirl to fuck off. Shame on you.

It was called for via sanctimonious twaddle. Over on Madeleythread, people are debating insurance Ts&Cs. It’s relevant to cycling, but jeezzzzzzzz.

Besides, it’s just bantz, otherwise you would have fucked off.

[peted76]

davel wrote:

So you can fuck off too. It’s the day for it.

 

This made me just snort really loudly and caused some funny looks.

[hawkinspeter]

@davel – I didn’t pick up on

@davel – I didn’t pick up on your “research” jibes and I just took them at face value. Maybe I’m easily triggered as I’ve spent too much time arguing with conspiracy theorists that were complete fuckwits. (Top tip – ask flat earthers why the moon looks upside down from Australia).

I can’t believe you just told dottigirl to fuck off. Shame on you.

 

[davel]

dottigirl wrote:

You all seem to have forgotten that THIS IS A CYCLING WEBSITE. 

I don’t think it’s heartless to say that pleas for totally unrelated personal tragedies shouldn’t be on this site. I’m sure we could find a lot of other deserving causes which actually have a cycling link.

e.g. http://wheelsforwellbeing.org.uk/

Things I have read about on this forum:

– unrelated disabled stuff

– sporty soft porn

referenced by you.

I haven’t got a problem with that, but I’m bringing it up now because you’re being narrow-minded and hypocritical, because you don’t think THIS topic belongs on here.

So you can fuck off too. It’s the day for it.

[davel]

hawkinspeter: My ‘research’

hawkinspeter: My ‘research’ jibes were in response to Leviathan’s post that sneeringly suggested that the earlier poster should do a bit more reading; I don’t think he’s as widely read and aware of the big picture as he thinks he is, on this topic.

Do I need to reference events that have been widely reported? I don’t think I said anything that a quick Google wouldn’t turn up. As FKoT says – they’re not secret.

I believe, by the way, that the world is round. Do I need to provide a reference?

[hawkinspeter]

@davel – I think you missed

@davel – I think you missed my point. I don’t care about Greece and their financial plight and you may well be right. It’s the complete lack of references/sources and then asking people to do research that bugs me.

Right, now I’ll fuck off.

[davel]

I don’t know what Grεξέρχεται

I don’t know what Grεξέρχεται means but I like the look of it.

 

*correction to above – Greek joining the Euro, not EU and Euro. Bit of a brainfart while typing.

[Author]

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