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Government response to 'Ban Surface Dressing roads'
Ban Surface Dressing roads
Responsible department: Department for Transport
A cheap but dangerous form of road re surfacing is surface dressing, which is tar sprayed onto a poor surface and then left with loose chipping for months Any that are not stuck down can cause a hazard to any road user. This is fastest and cheapest however due to the chipping it is definitely the most dangerous surface for any and all two wheeled vehicles. Riding on this surface is not only dangerous but does a lot more harm than good. This cheap and nasty surface isn't sustainable and has to be re-done often and has no benefit whatsoever. If your going to do a job you may as well do it properly!
This form of road surfacing needs to be banned from the UK roads. all drivers would much rather have a road closed for longer and be done properly, rather than having to drive through a minefield and causing their vehicle damage which can be costly. The state of our roads has been an ongoing issue in this country and needs to be addressed.
As this e-petition has received more than 10 000 signatures, the relevant Government department have provided the following response: This Government takes the issue of road safety and the condition of the road network very seriously. Indeed the Government is investing more than £6bn in this Parliament and £12bn in the next for highways maintenance on both the strategic and local road network. There are many types of materials to resurface the highway network. This type of dressing will seal the old road surface, preventing the ingress of water which causes deterioration of the road surface, and the road matrix and so reducing the risk of wider scale deterioration and road failure. When designed and laid properly they pose no additional risks. On many roads where traffic flow are not excessively high, surface dressings have been shown to be both cost-effective and sustainable. The Highways Agency, responsible for the motorway and trunk road network, do not routinely use this type of dressing due to the high traffic flows. For local roads, which are the statutory responsibility of local highway authorities, it is for each individual authority to decide on the most suitable materials to be used for resurfacing and repair works, based upon their local knowledge and circumstances. This e-petition remains open to signatures and will be considered for debate by the Backbench Business Committee should it pass the 100 000 signature threshold.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/67408
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58 comments
Volume of traffic has no impact?
How to calculate impact?
How the cost is passed on?
How the cost is recovered?
What alternative method of road repair?
Cost over chip seal?
What impact on commuting?
What impact on local businesses?
It's a bit more complex than big things vs small things...
You are really getting a bit silly now.
You seem to imagine taxation must be based on a very precise calculation of all the things you mention. Of course it never is.
Nevertheless, the heavier the axle weight the more damage a vehicle does.
It goes up as at least the fourth power.
I believe lorries do pay more tax than say cars, because they are heavier and make more demands on the road structure. At the moment it is reckoned that the higher tax does not equal the increased demands, so that HGVs do not pay their wack.
For example, the heaviest HGV axle does over 150,000 times more damage than a typical car axle.
This underpayment is one of the ways road transport is subsidised. The costs of this damage does have to be met, and comes out of our taxation and council tax. It would be a deal fairer if it came out of VED on lorries, or a tax on fuel.
Hmmm yes, because it's that simple isn't it?
Nothing to do with the volume of traffic, or with the weather conditions, and determining at what level a vehicle is considered 'heavy', then watching the transport companies pass the cost on, never mind the bus company or the heavy vehicles used in road maintenance....
Jesus wept.
Well yes, it is that simple. A mathematical law relates damage to an exponent (power) of axle weight.
I am sorry if a simple truth drives you to profanity.
Anecdotal evidence is an oxymoron.
If you want to be taken seriously by those who can actually bring about a change I would suggest that you begin by dropping the whole appeal to emotion style of argument.
Stamping your SPD shod feet and demanding a smoother ride to work while saying 'Won't someone think of the horses' isn't really going to cut it I'm afraid.
Answer the economic questions, what else would you like to be done, how much more will it cost and who is going to pay for it?
It's a grown up issue;suggesting that someone will lose an eye if we don't stop this menace isn't a grown up approach.
The heavy vehicles that do the damage?
Thing is, it's not just us on our pedal bikes that dislike this way of "repairing" roads.
Motorbikes loathe it to- any loose surface is obviously bad for even careful and considerate riders.
Car drivers aren't exactly fans- it's noisy, rough and leads to paint being chipped when some bellend comes the other way a bit quick.
During the bedding in phase it can be bad for pedestrians, which chippings going flying.
Can't imagine horse riders are fans either...
You running out of talent or, as above, needlessly overdramatizing the situation doesn't make any kind of coherent argument.
...and yet these moderately sensed people haven't actually done this?
Really?
But you still used that route, still survived, albeit traumatised?
What services do you suggest your local council should cut to allow you your dream journey?
You could have each section of road stripped down and completely rebuilt, work which lasts months, costs a vast amount more both to do, and in terms of delays and effects on local businesses.
I suspect that now, a few months on, you have a perfectly serviceable, smoother-than-before, usable road surface?
What's ridiculous is (first world...) cyclists complaining because the world isn't smooth and flat; it's just not that big a deal.
...until that day that you hit that patch of collected chippings and it chucks you off. Then suddenly it becomes a very big deal really quickly.
Whilst I am sure we can argue about over entitlement and the merits of bringing CX technical ability to the road commute the reality is that in certain circumstances this is a dangerous solution for road maintenance.
Whilst we can moan about getting a road chipping in the face, or in extreme cases in the eye, this isn't the challenge... the challenge, the focus should be the pools of loose chippings that present a very real danger to two wheeled road users. There needs to be a very good cost saving argument to counteract the risk this type of road maintenance presents... which I've not seen.
As for council cost savings... I'm sure anyone with moderate sense could go into a local council and find more considerable savings that don't risk lives in the same way.
It was done to a city street in Cambridge, busy one. For the first few months it was the joys of gravel spray and an unusable bike lane- on a route with heavy traffic of both sorts. "getting to work and back safely" is not an entitlement issue, and comparisons to hardcore cross country racing is utterly ridiculous.
No it really isn't.
It's an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and an overdramatic interpretation of some ever so slightly less than billiard smooth road surfaces, which are the best balance between cost and effectiveness for road repair given the current political and economic climate.
Despite the wailing, rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, it's really not a big issue...
So now we're all going to drown as well as having to ride on slightly gritty roads?
Someone should get a petition going or something...
Councils generally aren't responsible for clearing ditches - it's most often the adjacent landowner. There are exceptions, but not that many.
Thank you
Surface dressing really is a pointless exercise.
As soon as they've done it traffic causes it to be pushed to the sides of the road where it fills up the drains and ditches.
And because councils don't go around clearing ditches, it's no wonder the roads flood at the first sign of rain!
Short-termism at it's best!
Good grief.
Don't ever enter the 3 Peaks Cyclocross if a few road chippings are causing you to get your petticoats in such a tangle.
A sense of perspective is needed, desperately!
Clearly. But it's you that needs the sense of perspective. If I was entering the 3 peak cyclcocross race I would expect mud, gravel, rock etc. And be prepared for it. As it's an extreme off road sporting event.
I really don't think it's too much to ask that in the 21st century in a relatively prosperous country that I should be able to commute to work on a high quality smooth tarmac surface. I'd like my daily riding to be pleasant, not extreme. That's perspective.
'There really is an US vs Them battle on the streets '
There really isn't. Seriously, you throw chippings at cars? You're certainly doing wonders for the cycling fraternity there.
Dont like getting sprayed by chippings as the cars wizz by you? I dont either so i am prone to taking a handful these days and throw them at the offenders if they hurt me.
I am well prepared with a martial arts background and will make them eat the chippings if they get lippy!
There really is an US vs Them battle on the streets and i will fight my corner. I am sick of taking chit from cars and their occupants.
I am turning more and more militant the more i ride in the UK. The UK is the worst place i have ridden a bicycle in and i have been to a lot of places and not just to visit either.
Every day i ride i see at least 10 people on the phone, 3 that wizz by me within inches and countless idiots who are speeding.
So it's ok for you to escalate the situation, but if they do it, they get smashed up? I wonder what your Sensei/Sifu would say about this...
It's a real issue where I live.
I was riding over a newly dressed surface the other week as I had no way round it due to a road closure... Anyway I inevitably punctured and then as I was changing my tube at the side of the road I was sprayed by surface stones on a number of occasions as motorists whizzed by, ignoring the 20mph limit imposed on newly completed surfaces.
I ended up putting my helmet and glasses back on to complete the change for safety sake.
!
@BigMick
Have you tried reporting the road surface using this form? https://online.northumberland.gov.uk/citizenportal/form.aspx?form=557
If you get no joy, you can always try contacting the relevant councillor and ask them to take it up for you with the Highways team.
Northumberland council have been surface dressing for years and I have seen/used the roads 10 years after this bodge.The surface breaks into a patch work of broken tarmac that is so rough it's almost unrideable.There is a place called Slaley and on a road near there on a fast descent there is such a section and you enter doing 35mph and after a few yards the bike is down to 5mph and your fillings are loose.It's so bad it will kill someone but the council don't have a care!
For some reason I though that this would get a bigger response. So we will just have to tolerate chippings because it isn't the governments problem. I could write to my local council but they don't use it, just the neighbouring authorities which have no democratic responsibility to reply to me.
any surprise? DoT don't ride bikes or motorbikes so have no idea what road surfaces are like for non car drivers. To be blunt they don't give a s*** either.
That's a modern Western 'democracy' for you, where dropping bombs on foreign soil is more important than local issues. Keep voting for puppets, nothing will change!
Consider thyself fobbed off!
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