A 16-year-old who rode down Sawyers Hill in Richmond Park at 37 mph has been handed a six-month conditional discharge.
According to YourLocalGuardian, the teenager, whose name has been witheld for legal reasons, was also ordered to pay a £15 victim surcharge and £85 in costs by Lavender Hill Magistrates’ Court on Thursday, September 12.
Richmond Park is unusual among British roads in that its speed limit is a Royal Parks bye-law and not set by the local traffic authority. Unlike public road speed limits, the 20mph limit in Richmond Park applies to cyclists as well.
Or does it? The regulations applying to Royal Parks were amended in 2010, and in that statutory instrument, ‘vehicle’ was defined as “a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road.”
The regulations did not previously have a definition of a vehicle so were interpreted to apply to bikes as well as cars and motorbikes.
The new definition is the exact phrase used to define a motor vehicle in the Road Traffic Act, so on a layman’s interpretation at least, it could be argued that the Richmond Park speed limit doesn’t apply to bikes after all. If you're curious, BikeHub has lots on cycling and speed limits, and other legal matters.
It seems likely that the young cyclist in this case simply decided to cop the fine rather than fight it. If that’s the case his lawyer – if he even had one – might have missed a chance to make a bit of a name for himself.
Perhaps the most famous example of 'speeding' in Richmond Park is David Millar's 13:35 lap time in June 2011. As a publicity stunt for his autobiography, Millar lapped the park in full time trial kit in a 'race' against BBC presenter Graham Bell. Millar subsequently apologised profusely for steaming round the park at almost 30mph, and the BBC's video of the ride was taken down.
43 thoughts on “Teen cyclist fined for riding 37mph in Richmond Park”
How is anyone supposed to get
How is anyone supposed to get a 20mph average lap if they can’t speed down the hills?
/joking
If I remember correctly, the
If I remember correctly, the regulations were amended when they were thinking of introducing car-parking charges in the royal parks. Until then, as you say, the by-laws couldn’t be inferred to exclude bikes. But it wouldn’t have made sense to charge for bike-parking.
“£15 victim surcharge” —
“£15 victim surcharge” — what victim?
David Portland wrote:ӣ15
It’s called a victim surcharge because it is used to fund victim services through the Victim and Witness General Fund. It has nothing to do with whether there was a victim of the offense, and is levied with all fines imposed by a court.
David Portland wrote:ӣ15
[[[ All victims of crime, I believe. It’s a slush-fund.
P.R.
6 month conditional
6 month conditional discharge, £85 costs & £15 victim surcharge
He’d have got a lighter sentence if he’d ran a cyclist over in a car.
gazza_d wrote:6 month
Best reply on this subject; and it’s so true! Human life worth less than breaking an antiquated local rule.
How did they clock his speed?
How did they clock his speed? Have they got speed cameras?
Imagine the Police using
Imagine the Police using Strava to find offenders 😀
anewman wrote:Imagine the
It was all digitalEPO gov.
anewman wrote:
Imagine the
anewman wrote:
Imagine the Police using Strava to find offenders Big Grin
that’s what an alias is for
this should make the Richmond
this should make the Richmond Park time trials less fun, even as a fat old bloke I still managed 10 miles with an average speed of 20 mph – and I was pretty much last…
then again it is all done before the gates open so…
That’s my “new thing learned”
That’s my “new thing learned” for today 🙂
I was stopped in Richmond
I was stopped in Richmond Park last summer on my bike – the policeman was standing in the middle of the road with a laser speed sensor on me. I assumed the speed limit didn’t apply to bikes around the parks but was told it’s slightly different due to it being a royal park (I didn’t take in any of the details). I always go slow down the hills around there now!!
How do you know what speed
How do you know what speed you are doing when you don’t have to have a speedo fitted?
Good question!!
Good question!!
They must have clocked him
They must have clocked him right at the bottom of the hill. It’s a S bend so fast, but not super fast.
I thought if he had said fair enough he would have got a fixed penalty notice rather than going to court. It sounds like he was in court, so could have challened the rules.
thereverent wrote:They must
Are you thinking of Broomfield Hill? It says Sawyers Hill, which is pretty straight.
I’d have thought so too. Maybe it went to court because he was doing so much more than 20?
captain_slog wrote:Are you
My mistake. I had automatically thought about Broomfield hill.
Sawyers hill isn’t as steep so would take a bit more effort to get serious speed up.
The Police are often parked on the flat further down under the trees, but you can still see them from the road. Maybe he wasn’t very observant.
Oh deer
Oh deer
I am in there daily and
I am in there daily and nearly always Police presence at 7 in the morning, often wonder why? Punch up at the Royal Ballet School? deer rustlers? Richmond Park isn’t really a crime hotspot, maybe because it’s a royal park :/
Maybe he saw them but thought
Maybe he saw them but thought that they were helping to solve serious crimes not doing kids on bikes for speeding.
I actually did some mountain
I actually did some mountain biking at night in Richmond Park with headlights on. It was a lot of fun. Deer everywhere though.
Sorry officer, sun was in my
Sorry officer, sun was in my eyes and the limit just came out of no where
It;s a weird one, there’s
It;s a weird one, there’s some very conflicting information online about whether it applies to bikes or not.
http://www.frp.org.uk/pdf/frp/44_On_the_Road_In_Richmond_Park_Website_version_040712.pdf
Seems to say it does but doesn’t actually link to the Regulations (which I can’t find).
There’s the other factor that if the cyclist doesn’t have a computer/speedo, how on earth can they be done for speeding?
I’ve heard of a couple of incidents of cyclists being done for speeding but I’ve never seen it – I’ve got a couple of 20+mph laps to my name and I think my best speed down Sawyer Hill is probably somewhere around 35-40mph too. Given the sheer number of cyclists round there I think the police would have their work cut out enforcing anything and, on a law of averages, you’d be unlucky to be caught.
At the risk of going a bit
At the risk of going a bit off topic, Richmond’s special rules are the source of a lingering question for me. As a non-UK resident I was puzzled by something I saw on a recent that passed through Richmond Park. The official instructions for the ride made clear that urination on public or private property was prohibited in the UK, a rule that the thousands of riders over the course of a hundred miles seemed to follow — [i]except[/i] in Richmond Park, where literally hundreds or riders seemed perfectly comfortable relieving themselves in plain view. Am I missing a secret about royal property: is it legal to urinate in the Queen’s parks?
Aldaron wrote:Am I missing a
Is it legal? Not only is it legal, my friend, it is our loyal duty to do so at least once every lunar month.
And when we witness this happening it is also our national duty (as good British citizens) to start whistling and walk on by pretending we haven’t seen what’s going on.
Does the Palace to Palace go
Does the Palace to Palace go down this hill?
If so, they could be quite busy on Sunday
Fenton!
I emailed the Law a
Fenton!
I emailed the Law a while ago to look into this. They never got back, obviously. The pay for parking thing was all scrapped I believe (never park there so don’t know) from what I read online and all the new bye-laws withdrawn. As others have said, conflicting information, mostly in information leaflets but yet to see anything official. I’d like the Police to produce the bye-law that stats that categorically.
I seem to get passed by a lot
I seem to get passed by a lot of cars as I struggle along at 20 mph. Not much enforcement for them.
It is worthwhile going slow for the deer, but keeping to 20 mph down some of the hills is pretty difficult.
Should I be hiding my Strava
Should I be hiding my Strava segments? I’m not fast but it seems impossible to stick to 20 down Sawyers or Broomfield without using an entire set of brake blocks.
Add to that I was passed when doing 19mph (according to the voice of Map My Ride) along Kill Cat Corner by the fuzz and left for dead. They didn’t have blues on, they didn’t have sirens so what’s the rush?
tonemonkey wrote:Should I be
Logic doesn’t apply when it comes to the hysteria about “speeding cyclists” in richmond park when the wording is so flimsy it’s almost hilarious.
Everyone knows the real problem in the royal parks is dangerous motorists, just they don’t seem to have the guts to ban them outright (the rat running ones at least).
northstar wrote:
Everyone
FIFY
If you cycle down Queens Road
If you cycle down Queens Road in the park towards Kingston gate you will always get cars overtaking you well above 20mph. The Police would catch lots of drivers there if they wanted.
The link to the news story contains some interesting comments. the best one is someone who wants a mimimum speed limit in the park, obviously he uses the park to short cut roads nearby.
One can never understand why
One can never understand why cars are allowed in Richmond Park? It would be better if they banned cars & let cyclists have one bit of road to be safe & well
Lets start off with a day a month, or a day a week car free?
The core of this story is F & C paper by tomorrow
Fenton! Fenton!
Fenton! Fenton! Fennnntonnnnn!!!!!!
Benton! Benton!
Benton! Benton! Bennnntonnnnn!!!!!!
I have helmet cam footage of
I have helmet cam footage of numerous cars breaking the speed limit in Richmond Park. The Police actually do remarkably little to discourage the rampant speeding. One of those vehicles haring along at we’ll over 20mph just happens to be a Police Range Rover. One law for them etc etc. Of course, said Range Rover will have had the legally required gaugeto help ensure that its ever vigilant driver remain within the specified limit – unlike bicycles, for which there is no legal requirement to carry a speedometer.
Question: How is it possible to prosecute for speeding the rider of a “vehicle” not legally required to have an instrument for measuring speed?
TiNuts wrote:
Question: How
[[[ TiNuts—quite. And how is a cyclist supposed to know when he/she has topped the 20mph limit? This isn’t a rhetorical question—-it’s one that needs to be addressed, surely.
P.R.
This reminds me of my
This reminds me of my preparations for the 1999 TDF . With living in the area , i chose to enter WoT gate turn right up the hill , then drop back to the roundabout multiple times , with the intent to build climbing confidence and ability .
After several mornings i was detained on the roundabout by the ” parks police ” , for ” not indicating as i circled the roundabout “! Apparently i was ” interfering with the traffic flow “! When i pointed out that slowing so as to ride with one hand on the roundabout , would create more delay , i was told ” Smartass comments will get yOU booked”!
Of course THEY WERE concerned about people ringing them complaining about cyclists using the Richmond Park , so early in the morning ? Was it too early for them to be out on Patrol ? They did not mention any vehicles delayed as they followed me on that ride up the hill ( bump/pimple compared to any alpine event ) , seems nothing has changed , rat run alley continues to exist ?
[[[ Hillocks! The lumps in
[[[ Hillocks! The lumps in Richmond Park are like life itself—nasty, brutish, and short. To keep inside 20mph going downwards you’d wear out yer brake-blocks. Some years ago, a tuggo with a speedometer joined me briefly on a ride there. He informed me we’d just clocked 55mph.
P.R.
Very odd it all ended up in
Very odd it all ended up in court though, can they not give fixed penalties due to another weird by law?
It seems totally confusing to
It seems totally confusing to have a different rule on a road that runs through a park compared to other roads with regard to enforcement of speed limits for cyclists; surely some clarity and consistency is required.
That said, if signage clearly indicates a 20mph speed limit maybe we should take some notice as cyclists. Without speedometers it would seem unfair to take action against cyclists who are a little over the speed limit but when we start to get to speeds of almost double the limit its fair to say that any cyclist would realise that they are going pretty quick. To us as cyclists a 20mph sign should mean ‘take it a bit steady, especially on the descents’. We should at least adopt the spirit of the rules otherwise we might just find that prosecutions like this become more common.