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Kingston Council angers drivers who fail to notice the new rules

A council in London has made over half a million pounds in a week from drivers falling foul of new traffic restrictions as a cycling ‘Mini Holland’ was launched.

Despite temporary bollards and notices of traffic restrictions being placed around the area of Kingston, south west London, thousands of drivers ignored them and were hit by penalty charge notices.

According to the Evening Standard, 8,055 penalty charge notices were issued between November 14 and November 20 - totalling at least £525,000.

Each fine is £65, rising to £195 if not paid within 28 days.

Only buses, taxis and residents are allowed to breach the cycle-friendly zones.

Roger Marlow, 74, from East Molesey, was fined after driving through the bollards to reach his bridge club last month.

He said: “I went through there and got a £65 ticket.

“When I went this week I flagged down a number of cars who didn’t know not to go through there.

“They must be making an absolute fortune, it must be a money making machine.

“At least eight or nine cars went through - there are some notices but there hasn’t been a consultation.”

Tony Edmonds, 57, who lives nearby, said: “I spoke to the council and they said they’re getting a lot of complaints about it.

“They said around 5,500 warning notices had been given out.

“That means people don’t understand the signage.”

Kingston Council issued 5,482 warning notices to drivers passing through the bollards before “live enforcement” of the restrictions began on November 14.

Liberal Democrat leader Liz Green said: “It’s a scary amount of money.

“The whole thing from start to finish has been badly implemented - it’s just a disaster.

“There is just a plethora of signs. There was no consultation, there was no chance to object.”

A Kingston Council spokeswoman said: “In order to improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians, we are conducting a trial road closure which is aimed at reducing traffic.

“The council has been monitoring traffic flows, and following a lengthy bedding in process, which included the installation of cameras and the issuing of warning notices, has started issuing fines to motorists who fail to comply with the closure.

“Over the next few months the council will be measuring the actual impacts of traffic flow and congestion on neighbouring roads and will subsequently carry out consultation on whether or not to make the scheme permanent.”

Last month we reported how the final touches were being added to the 1400m fully segregated riverside route, on Portsmouth Road in Kingston upon Thames on Tuesday, one of six routes planned as part of the borough’s £30m “Mini Holland” programme.

Although there is a “shared space” section beside a zebra crossing, and the junctions are slow to navigate, campaigners say designs are the best option for the route and have been improved almost beyond recognition from their early incarnations.

Kingston Cycling Campaign Co-ordinator, Jon Fray, told road.cc: “Kingston Cycling Campaign is pleased we have got proper segregation pretty much all the way along”.

“I think [the council] have done just about the best they can do.”

After an unpromising start, having to be bribed by her parents to learn to ride without stabilisers, Sarah became rather keener on cycling in her university years, and was eventually persuaded to upgrade to proper road cycling by the prospect of a shiny red Italian bike, which she promptly destroyed by trapping a pair of knickers in the rear derailleur. Sarah writes about about cycling every weekend on road.cc.

31 comments

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gsavill90 [34 posts] 1 year ago
21 likes

Good.

 

Maybe if they were forced to have identification numbers and insurance we wouldn't see so many of these people flaunting our traffic laws.

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Jitensha Oni [99 posts] 1 year ago
5 likes

It’s a scary amount of money.

 

It's a welcome amount of money if it can be spent on resurfacing the rapidly decaying paths around Berrylands, riverside towards Teddington Lock, more mini-Holland build etc. It's an ill wind...

 

 

 

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ianrobo [1219 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

so obviously this elderley chap needs his eyes tested after mis reading the signs and driving through bollards or were they just put there to ignore probably a UKIP supporter.

BTW in any new scheme I do think for a short time period of starting some people can be let off with a warning but that needs people there to enforce it.

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robertoegg [112 posts] 1 year ago
5 likes

Ok, devils advocate (which means fairly central on here) - if this many people are getting caught, there is something wrong in the way it's been implemented.

It's clearly a unique road arrangement for this country and is dependant upon the time of day so I believe. 

Sneering from the other side doesn't help the cause. 

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oldstrath [931 posts] 1 year ago
8 likes
robertoegg wrote:

Ok, devils advocate (which means fairly central on here) - if this many people are getting caught, there is something wrong in the way it's been implemented.

It's clearly a unique road arrangement for this country and is dependant upon the time of day so I believe. 

Sneering from the other side doesn't help the cause. 

As the main example is a man who appears to believe that driving through a set of bollards is perfectly fine, not sneering is going to be hard

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robbieC [62 posts] 1 year ago
9 likes

musing: why is it always "the council" is somehow benefiting when people are fined for behaviour like this and not the more accurate "council taxpayers" which, it always seems to be when reasons are given for not spending more on cycles. I am also puzzled that council tax payers are not allowed to benefit from charges for parking and other services, which as an issue of supply and demand, should be more commercial (btw I drive). 

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I love my bike [214 posts] 1 year ago
8 likes
ianrobo wrote:

so obviously this elderley chap needs his eyes tested after mis reading the signs and driving through bollards or were they just put there to ignore probably a UKIP supporter.

BTW in any new scheme I do think for a short time period of starting some people can be let off with a warning but that needs people there to enforce it.

 

They were, as 'Kingston Council issued 5,482 warning notices to drivers passing through the bollards before “live enforcement” of the restrictions began on November 14.'

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brooksby [2812 posts] 1 year ago
6 likes
oldstrath wrote:
robertoegg wrote:

Ok, devils advocate (which means fairly central on here) - if this many people are getting caught, there is something wrong in the way it's been implemented.

It's clearly a unique road arrangement for this country and is dependant upon the time of day so I believe. 

Sneering from the other side doesn't help the cause. 

As the main example is a man who appears to believe that driving through a set of bollards is perfectly fine, not sneering is going to be hard

True. On the whole, councils don't put bollards and "No entry except..." signs as decoration; generally, they are there for a reason. Hopefully next time these drivers will now think about it before driving through a bollarded entry...? OTOH I wonder how many drivers have collected multiple fine?

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Leviathan [2905 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

#Londonproblems

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dottigirl [811 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

People are still walking on the clearly-marked cycle tracks. I've heard some cyclists getting worked up about this.

Whether or not the special section is open yet, they've been able to walk on the pavement for years. People are, in general, set in their ways. It's going to take a while for them to adapt to another route. 

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ktache [646 posts] 1 year ago
10 likes

Enforcement works.  Have you noticed the amount of brake lights going off as you ride past a speed enforcement camera.  Or the queue of cars sitting behind the police car on the motorway.

Reading council started to enforce it's bus lanes a few years back.  Lot of people got caught to start off with.  They must have been breaking the law with impunity before enforcement.  They learn.  Very little use of a bus lanes by those prohibited now.  I would of liked it to be police enforcement, points have an effect as well, but if the only enforcement comes from councils then so be it.  I smile when I notice the scofflaws now, maybe even wave and ask them to enjoy the fine.

Hopefully it will be box junctions next.  It would help ease congestion and improve traffic flow.   And it's almost impossible for a cyclist to get trapped in a box juction.

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Plasterer's Radio [347 posts] 1 year ago
9 likes

Fuck em.

They have just ignored the signs or missed them because they aren't looking.

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Paul M [363 posts] 1 year ago
3 likes

Is there any information on how many of the 8,055 penalty notices were issued to motorists who had already received one of the 5,482 warning notices?

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Man of Lard [341 posts] 1 year ago
11 likes

“That means people don’t understand the signage.”

 

I suspect they do understand the signage, but assumed there would be no enforcement.  Seems they got what was coming...

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Gus T [323 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

Editors - Thank you for removing the discriminatory comment & my response (no sarcasm intended) Please delete this comment after you have seen it.   1   Other readers not being obtuse, the ed's will know what I mean

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Bluebug [276 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
Man of Lard wrote:

“That means people don’t understand the signage.”

 

I suspect they do understand the signage, but assumed there would be no enforcement.  Seems they got what was coming...

Precisely.

It is amusing to note the person complaining lives just down the road in Surrey.

People like him believe because some councils e.g. Surrey County Council are ineffective in policing their roads they make the mistake in thinking other councils e.g. Kingston Council also are. 

Having  lived in different parts of London one thing I've noticed if as a resident you tell a London council that someone is parking illegally so causing you a problem* either on a cycle lane or pediastrian access to a property, they will happily send out  parking attendants. They will then  repeat this at random intervals until it stops,  but if they realise the laws are repeatedly flouted in  large numbers they will install cameras. 

*The emergency services including the British Transport Police are the only ones who get away with this.

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ajd [64 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

I cycle through this section of road every morning. There are huge no-entry signs at the junction with a little sign under saying "bus and cycles only".

I saw a chap in high vis there last week and assumed it was a resident but I guess it was a council worker.

Glad they are finally enforcing it - motorists will learn. £500k should come in handy for the council too. Bonus!

 

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crazy-legs [951 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
ajd wrote:

Glad they are finally enforcing it - motorists will learn. £500k should come in handy for the council too. Bonus!

Absolutely! In these times of council cutbacks and the associated cuts to essential services, councils should be using everything they can to get extra income. Actually proactively enforcing existing laws is one way of doing that and as an added bonus you get cleaner quieter safer streets, less pollution, less congestion!

Win all round. Except for all those poor honest hardworking motorists obviously...  3

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CXR94Di2 [1904 posts] 1 year ago
4 likes

A few more weeks of that, and all those who complained about having a 'Mini Holland' will have paid for it in fines 

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ktache [646 posts] 1 year ago
5 likes

Do you think that if speed cameras were set at the speed limit we could get rid of the deficit and reduce the national debt?

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Leviathan [2905 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
ktache wrote:

Do you think that if speed cameras were set at the speed limit we could get rid of the deficit and reduce the national debt?

Yes, Minister. It can't harm to try.

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Kim [250 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

The legal situation is simple Ignorantia juris non excusat ignorance is no defence in law. Now that is cleared up, it will £500 for the legal advice...  3

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OldRidgeback [2847 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

To be honest, the signage on some cycle lines isn't good. I nearly got caught out on a stretch of road (Waterloo Bridge Road in London) I know well when I was in the car with the family. Ironically, I used to use that road on my cycle commute to my old office. It is a lot better now on two wheels I must say.

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ktache [646 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

Honest question, as I have never driven, and I know any drivers answering this would also be commited cyclists, but how much does your average motorist actually look at the road?  

The wear on the paint on some mandatory cycle routes would suggest to me that it might not be as much as a cyclist does.  Same for potholes.

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ktache [646 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

Box junctions, advanced stop zones, bus lanes, gave way lines, stop lines

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nowasps [519 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes
ktache wrote:

Honest question, as I have never driven, and I know any drivers answering this would also be commited cyclists, but how much does your average motorist actually look at the road?  

The wear on the paint on some mandatory cycle routes would suggest to me that it might not be as much as a cyclist does.  Same for potholes.

Not so well as on a bike, I'd say.

On a wet night with lighting all over the place, it's often impossible to see markings on the road through a steamy windscreen (especially when over the speed limit, with kids arguing in the back and the bloody texts continually demanding my attention). Particularly so when the markings are worn.

 

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JonD [493 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

Some clarification for those of the road.cc massive talking out of their collective arses - the restriction is *NOT* part of the infrastructure shown in the picture at the top of the road.cc article.

The restriction is a right turn into Surbiton Crescent from Surbiton Road which runs S/SE past Kingston University towards Surbiton (the clue is the picture in the Standard article, which actually shows the restriction from the opposite direction), presumably since it passes a school :

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Surbiton+Cres/@51.3995468,-0.3070467,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x48760bc7fbcb6133:0xd712a8bbb307e701!8m2!3d51.3995468!4d-0.304858

https://www.kingston.gov.uk/info/200382/go_programme/1269/kingston_and_s...
 

If leaving Kingston *not* via the top end of Portmouth road (often congested from the nearby college roundabout), ie via Surbiton Road, this is a well-worn route back onto the Portsmouth Road via Palace Road a little lower down - alternative is to continue to the next set of lights at the Surbiton/Maple Road junction, which puts you onto the busier, mostly double-parked Maple road (which funnily enough also has a school on it)

The 'bollards' are actually a road narrowing (as in the Standard picture) - however, that's  perhaps 30+yards away from the junction after you've turned in to the Crescent, and from that side adjacent to the bollards just show a priority , whereas on the *other* side of the bollars in the Standard picture it also mentions  'access'.

The *actually* offence is simply turning into the road  rather than passing through the bollards. If you turn in then it's too late, there's no opportunity to do anything different to avoid a fine - the camera is actually between the junction and the bollard narrowing so you don't even need to pass through the bollards. The only clue is a sign on the rhs (ie far side of the Crescent) once in the Crescent saying 'Grove Area Controlled ZoneMon-Sat (?)-6:30pm'...but it doesn't say how, and once you've turned in it probably isn't isn't visible either, looking over the pics I went back to take.

The 'no right turn' signage is on Surbiton Road opposite the junction, in pulling up parallel to turn right into Surbiton Crescent in you're a) keeping to the right b) looking ahead for gaps in the oncoming traffic so the signage on the left's not difficult to miss, similar the no entry signage into the road is at head height+, and facing across the road so parallel with the side of the vehicle.

Add night time conditions - which is when we were travelling - and it's not exactly surprising so many have been fined.

Yup, we got caught by this about a month back. Annoyed ? - yeah, a little for missing the signage, it's a route we've used for over 20yrs but not recently, so weren't likely to benefit from a ticking-off as some appear to have had, and I was sufficiently puzzled as to cycle back for a look.

But it certainly isn't as glaringly clear as some would like to make out.
 

 

 

 

 

Avatar
Man of Lard [341 posts] 1 year ago
2 likes

And if you challenge the notice and take your chances in front of a magistrate, you might well find yourself on a "driving without due care" rap instead/as well because you didn't see the signage (been there myself, 25 years ago - felt victimised at the time but it was totally correct application for the law)... Then the eyesight test... Suck it up. No sympathy for what is, as you admitted, prima facie rat running.

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Roberts Clubman [16 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

I rode the new Portsmouth Road cycle lane today, and it's good as far as it goes. But, the problem is it doesn't go very far. The Thames Ditton end is still just a useless painted advisory cycle lane with numerous parked cars obstructing it , and the new lane peters out before it reaches Kingston Town Centre. So, still some way to go, but at least it's a step in the right direction. I didn't spot any bollards, so I guess the fines for drivers relate to traffic calming measures elsewhere in the town. 

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robertoegg [112 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
JonD wrote:

Some clarification for those of the road.cc massive talking out of their collective arses - the restriction is *NOT* part of the infrastructure shown in the picture at the top of the road.cc article.

The restriction is a right turn into Surbiton Crescent from Surbiton Road which runs S/SE past Kingston University towards Surbiton (the clue is the picture in the Standard article, which actually shows the restriction from the opposite direction), presumably since it passes a school :

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Surbiton+Cres/@51.3995468,-0.3070467,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x48760bc7fbcb6133:0xd712a8bbb307e701!8m2!3d51.3995468!4d-0.304858

https://www.kingston.gov.uk/info/200382/go_programme/1269/kingston_and_s...
 

If leaving Kingston *not* via the top end of Portmouth road (often congested from the nearby college roundabout), ie via Surbiton Road, this is a well-worn route back onto the Portsmouth Road via Palace Road a little lower down - alternative is to continue to the next set of lights at the Surbiton/Maple Road junction, which puts you onto the busier, mostly double-parked Maple road (which funnily enough also has a school on it)

The 'bollards' are actually a road narrowing (as in the Standard picture) - however, that's  perhaps 30+yards away from the junction after you've turned in to the Crescent, and from that side adjacent to the bollards just show a priority , whereas on the *other* side of the bollars in the Standard picture it also mentions  'access'.

The *actually* offence is simply turning into the road  rather than passing through the bollards. If you turn in then it's too late, there's no opportunity to do anything different to avoid a fine - the camera is actually between the junction and the bollard narrowing so you don't even need to pass through the bollards. The only clue is a sign on the rhs (ie far side of the Crescent) once in the Crescent saying 'Grove Area Controlled ZoneMon-Sat (?)-6:30pm'...but it doesn't say how, and once you've turned in it probably isn't isn't visible either, looking over the pics I went back to take.

The 'no right turn' signage is on Surbiton Road opposite the junction, in pulling up parallel to turn right into Surbiton Crescent in you're a) keeping to the right b) looking ahead for gaps in the oncoming traffic so the signage on the left's not difficult to miss, similar the no entry signage into the road is at head height+, and facing across the road so parallel with the side of the vehicle.

Add night time conditions - which is when we were travelling - and it's not exactly surprising so many have been fined.

Yup, we got caught by this about a month back. Annoyed ? - yeah, a little for missing the signage, it's a route we've used for over 20yrs but not recently, so weren't likely to benefit from a ticking-off as some appear to have had, and I was sufficiently puzzled as to cycle back for a look.

But it certainly isn't as glaringly clear as some would like to make out.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this... It seems my ealier post stands true.

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