The head of London's largest taxi driver organisation, the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association (LTDA), says cycling campaigners who responded to the LTDA's opposition to new London cycleways are "almost the sort of Isis of London" and "loonies".
Comparing cyclists to the jihadist organisation responsible for ethnic cleansing, war crimes, and beheading and burning alive its victims, LTDA general secretary Steve McNamara told LBC radio: "These people, the zealots of the cycling world, are unbelievable. We have had cyber attacks on our websites. They are all over us like a cheap suit on Twitter and social media. We have had physical threats of violence. You name it, we have had it. It’s absolutely unreal.
“The loonies out there in the cycling world, they’re almost the sort of Isis of London. Their views and their politics – if you are not with them, and we are with the majority of it, then nothing is too bad for you. These people are unreal."
McNamara was talking to LBC about the new central London cycleways, dubbed the east-west and north-south cycle superhighways, which were approved by the board of Transport for London yesterday. The LTDA has threatened to call for a judicial review of the cycleways, because it doesn't like the routing of the east-west scheme along the north bank of the Thames.
In 2013, the LTDA used footage from a carefully-chosen junction to allege that 50 per cent of cyclists jump red lights, a finding completely at odds with more rigorous academic studies that have found the rate of red-light jumping of drivers and cyclists is about the same.
It's not hard to find examples of intimidation and attacks by taxi drivers against cyclists.
When news of McNamara's latest rant hit Twitter, road.cc product reviewer, Mike Stead supplied this story:
@johnstevenson_x @theltda I'm not a violent bloke at all, but when a thug uses a 2-ton weapon against a cyclist, he needs disarming.
— Mike Stead (@tweetymike) February 5, 2015
And if you want video evidence of the danger taxis frequently present to cyclists on the streets of London, here's helmet cammer CycleGaz' compilation of incidents:
McNamara later appeared to back down from his comments to LBC, before more or less repeating the allegation that cyclists were like ISIS.
He told Evening Standard journalist Ross Lydall: “Perhaps I would accept that was a bit strong. It was a live interview. I have had death threats. They say, ‘I hope people you know die screaming of cancer’. I’m convinced that if 99 per cent of cyclists knew some of the stuff we had received after expresing legitimate concerns, they would be horrified.
“I’m not going to be intimidated. I don’t take them seriously. We have not reported anything to the police because I don’t think there is anything in them. I think it’s just a few loonies, but they really have got a sort of religious zeal.
“Perhaps that was a bit strong [to compare them to Isis] but I can’t think of a single other movement in the world at the moment that behaves in such a vitriolic and aggressive manner.”
83 thoughts on “Taxi leader says cyclists are the “Isis of London””
so is comparing people to
(|: so is comparing people to ISIS the new calling people Nazis?
I understand TDLA, they are
I understand TDLA, they are facing an existential threat from UBER, driverless cars, losing the right to use bus lanes and improvements to cycling infrastructure losing them customers and need a scapegoat, but can’t use Jews, Arabs, Blacks or Asians as it’s illegal. Cycling is a lifestyle choice so like gingers attacking us as a group is not yet considered a hate crime.
Idle thought of the day.
Do
Idle thought of the day.
Do you think that I’d be close/punishment passed if I armed myself with an RPG launcher, with grenades (obviously) and an AK47? 8>
They just don’t get it, do
They just don’t get it, do they? Their days of privilege are over. We no longer need their rattling, smoking old bangers or their “Knowledge” or their superior attitude or their lamentable driving. Instead we’ve got sat-navs and real competition and a willingness to serve.
The only way is up.
I listened to it live last
I listened to it live last night on LBC. I found it quite difficult to follow as my irony fuse kept exploding.
There was quite a good part where he tried to make some point about cycling being dominated by white middle aged men. Yes, that’s a Taxi driver pointing out a lack of diversity amongst another group of road users…
Road.CC is has turned into
Road.CC is has turned into the Daily Mail of cycling, its confirmed.
Leodis wrote:The man has a
Bigotry is an ugly trait.
bikebot wrote:Leodis
You got no cabbies to behead?
Leodis wrote:bikebot
You got no cabbies to behead?— Leodis
No, because I don’t pick a fight with Taxi drivers, or stereotype them all based on the actions of individuals. I’m actually related to some.
I do have a problem with the LTDA, their policies and their leadership.
The problematic thing is
The problematic thing is tarring all cyclists (or taxi drivers or Jews or gays or or) with the same brush. Some *people* who are, amongst many other things, cyclists are pointlessly aggressive on Twitter. Therefore *cyclists* are the ISIS of Twitter?
Having watched those videos, I’m not sure I want to be classed in the same category as angry CycleGaz either.
What we really need is people
What we really need is people pointlessly creating an us and them culture between cyclists and cabbies.
Both some “Taxi leader”, and a sensationalist linkbait site.
He may say he’s received
He may say he’s received death threats but I wonder how many cabbies have actually been killed by cyclists and vice versa?
loser, only because cycling
loser, only because cycling is reducing their customer base
richiewormiling wrote:loser,
I agree. It’s desperate stuff, he’s a worried man desperately looking for someone to blame.
Cycle Gaz really doesn’t help
Cycle Gaz really doesn’t help himself when it comes to cycling in London. His complete lack of awareness, lack of consideration for other road users and habit of incessantly ‘riding primary’ are obviously going to irritate other road users.
I commute by bike in Central London every day, yes you have lots of idiots, but with a bit of give and take and you can avoid most of the scrapes he manages to get himself in. One day he might realise that his Youtube Channel is more an embarrassment to him than anyone else.
As for the LTDA guy, he’s just an idiot trying to fight his corner with what little PR skills he possesses. I don’t have much of a problem with licensed taxi drivers, they’re a hell of a lot better than the likes of Addison Lee.
There is a need for car
There is a need for car drivers to start to be regulated more stringently. This is where we’re going if we don’t nip their self-entitlement in the bud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHJxIwvFIGY
The sooner UBER wipe out the
The sooner UBER wipe out the black cab the better! :H
Astoundingly naive of a
Astoundingly naive of a person (yes I will still call him ‘person’) who speaks for hundreds of others.
There needs to be understanding from all of the relevant groups; taxi, lorry, bus, car drivers and us riders before this aggression is reduced.
Doubt it will happen so take care out there.
Funniest incident I saw with
Funniest incident I saw with a black cab… Apart from falling out of one hammered after a big night out..
Doing laps of Regent’s Park trying to keep up with the racers…. when we all came to a stop. A cab had tried to do a U-turn to pick up a customer. He’d clearly rushed it and failed to look sufficiently. All the cyclists had missed him, but the cab following took the full force. No injuries, just two knackered cabs. All of us riders had a little smirk on as we left the scene, the two driver vented it out on each other.
man makes stupid comment, has
man makes stupid comment, has the sense to feel like an idiot for letting his mouth run away with it and tries to dig his way out without making it obvious he’s digging his way out.
threats are pointless, what’s wrong with ripping the piss? Too 1990s?
Why cant we just rise above
Why cant we just rise above it? It’s just a person making a poor point in a clumsy and offensive way ,and he has climbed down
Clearly the guy has a view which doesn’t chime with us but let’s just smile and get on with it-cycle superhighways are coming and while not perfect,it’s an unbelievable step change and one which didn’t seem possible five years ago
We need people to see the benefits they bring with all sorts of cyclists using the lanes for all their business-a load of angry car haters dont do us any good at all-and yes I’m a London (and Birningham and Sheffield City cycle commuter)
Make peace!!
Take his licence away and let
Take his licence away and let him cycle in London for a week and see if he still feel the same way.
OK, so when I lived in London
OK, so when I lived in London I commuted in to work every day. And now, out in Kent, having had a few years just pootling about with the kids, started doing slightly more serious mileage again.
So I am “a cyclist”, not some ‘orrible internet troll.
But…
First, the heading of the article is seriously misleading, and as a result likely to, unnecessarily, whip up ill-feeling.
“Taxi leader says cyclists are the “Isis of London””. The clear implication of the heading is that Cab-Guy is speaking about all cyclists.
But, on the basis of the quotes in the article, he is not, he is only talking about those on the extremes of cycling militancy:
“These people, the zealots of the cycling world…”
“The loonies out there in the cycling world…”
Secondly, I think that cyclists as a whole have to recognise that there are “zealots” and, frankly, “loonies” in the cycling world. Just as there are in the “motoring world”.
And I think we also have to recognise that at least some of the cycling zealots and loonies are probably making things worse for the general run of cyclists.
Humans are tribal animals. Most of us instinctively want to be part of a tribe. It is easy to divide into “cyclists” and “motorists” (even though the vast majority of cyclists also motor). The problem is that if some within the cycling tribe froth at the mouth and bang and shout at the motorists, even the perfectly reasonable motorists will (a) take offence and (b) tar all cyclists with the same brush. It may not be fair, but it is human nature.
I genuinely believe that it is really important that cyclists (a) do obey the bloody rules all the time. And yes, that means sitting at a red light even when there is no traffic coming from anywhere (we do it when we are in our cars- if we want proper treatment on the roads and equality and all that we have to do it on the bikes too); and (b) should not “target” motorists in the way some do- because if we do they/ some of them will target us.
There are are some cyclists (I hope a tiny minority) who seem actively to want to have a warlike mentality between cars and cycles. But that is absolutely insane. If “we” are warlike to them “they” will become warlike to us. And they have fuck off huge weapons and we don’t.
And yes, I know it is not fair. I know I drive and cycle about the same mileage, and just about every ride some arsewipe will overtake far too, and quite frighteningly, close, whereas perhaps one every two years will I be mildly inconvenienced by a cyclist while in the car.
But, if in practical terms we want to make it safer, the aggressive approach is, in my view, 100% the wrong way to go about it.
And finally, just to show how you should never leap to judgment- when I read this article initially, and decided I was going to write a post along these lines, I had it firmly in mind that I might use CycleGaz as an example of all that is wrong with the zealot/ loonie wing of the cycling tribe.
But then, I looked at the video roundup published here today, and saw this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iecx6ikEP_4 . And if you look at the poster’s comments on youtube, they are very balanced and self-aware.
They are cabbies for a
They are cabbies for a reason. Can you really expect them to drive with intelligence when they have very little.
1 step away from the Argos stockroom.
Plasterer’s Radio wrote:They
It’s exactly this kind of comment that gives cyclists a bad name. They tar us with one brush and your response is to tar them all with another. Not cool, not clever and not a solution.
Tintow wrote:Plasterer’s
It’s exactly this kind of comment that gives cyclists a bad name. They tar us with one brush and your response is to tar them all with another. Not cool, not clever and not a solution.— Plasterer's Radio
Agree entirely- my point exactly.
The Argos stockroom actually
The Argos stockroom actually sounds like the nice, quiet end of retail to me. Not customer-facing, quite relaxing.
vbvb wrote:The Argos
I know someone that’s done it a few times. Have you ever seen Charlie Chaplin’s Modern Times?
Plasterer’s Radio wrote:They
Really? A little elitism creeping in here?
Plasterer’s Radio wrote:They
Good to know there are worse human beings on here than that McNamara chap.
grahamTDF wrote:Plasterer’s
Good to know there are worse human beings on here than that McNamara chap.— Plasterer's Radio
Stop talking bollocks.
Seeing as your post count is so low, I’m guessing that you’ve not been here long so feel free to find somewhere else that isnt populated with “worse human beings”.
The fucking nonsense some people come out with is incredulous.
Uber should put the final few
Uber should put the final few nails in the black cab coffin soon enough – they’re just doing so kicking and screaming while they feel the squeeze. Ignore and carry on – they’ll be confined to the history books soon enough.
Actually, reading some of the
Actually, reading some of the comments from some of the posters on road.cc, I think he might not be wrong in stating that (some) cyclists are loonies.
I wouldn’t crow too much.
I wouldn’t crow too much. Uber drivers are hardly going to be an improvement. I wonder if the kinds of people who currently take black cabs would happily switch over to cycling. I don’t think in general they would as most black cab journeys are taken by (and I have absolutely no facts to back this up) business people; tourists and drunks.
Wow, talk about a bunch on
Wow, talk about a bunch on complaining cabbies. They don’t want Uber, they don’t want Oxford St closed, they don’t want cycle way … and then watching the video, they’re just a bunch of douchebags.
Bring on uber to drive them out of business for good. They’re no longer relevant.
Well, we’ll have self-driving
Well, we’ll have self-driving cars soon enough. One of the best uses for them is a taxi-like system with by the minute hire… just saying.
Currently in Melbourne , so
Currently in Melbourne , so the following can be viewed as a “THREAT “?
PLEASE , think , before YOU ride in a ” LTDA Vehicle ” ! You are putting YOUR Cycling safety at risk , when YOU give these people the opportunity to have YOUR Money !
Find ” UBER ” , use their services ! When you behave like “Ralph Nader ” and give YOUR Support to ther Alternative , perhaps the ” Ordinary Taxi Driver ” will VOTE this Buffoon OUT of the JOB !
Every Cyclist has SOME Experience of being Intimidated , whilst riding , so WHY support a Service Industry , headed up by THIS Nutter ?
Thinks he is ” Clarkson ” , or ” Son of Clarkson ?
Decide a Date , that ALL Cyclists and their Families can relate to , THEN , every Taxi Journey THAT DAY , should NOT be with a Black Cab !
What a shame it could not be for the WHOLE Month of March!
That should defuse any
That should defuse any tension then, Mr McNamara.
HarrogateSpa wrote:That
Well, honestly it made me laugh 😀
Think in all honesty he’s made things a lot easier for cycle campaigners, provided they don’t stoop to his level, by shredding his credibility. He’s joining Sarah Palin as a politician become a punchline.
nuclear coffee
Absolutely my reaction. I was listening to it live and to use a somewhat crude expression, I thought he’d shit the bed. Whatever action he attempts now to block the CS routes, those words are going to be thrown back at him.
Aside from all the tribalist
Aside from all the tribalist nonsense going on in this thread, cabbies have to take along good look at the person who is representing them.
For Steve McNamara to compare other (mostly law abiding, and no less so than his own members) road users to a barbaric fundamentalist organisation that use rape, torture and public executions to ‘correct’ peoples behaviour and enforce adherence to their skewered religious sect, is, to put it bluntly, beyond the pale.
He is obviously now a desperate man who will say anything to try and demonise other road users, shows that he knows he has lost, and so is losing it.
I say give him a bit more rope.
Every profession does
Every profession does Continuing Professional Development.
Perhaps LTDA could issue a simple module on ‘Bikeability’ and then their members might stand a chance of knowing about ‘taking the lane’ & ‘primary position’ a bit more.
Although as 1 of the 5
Although as 1 of the 5 ‘benefits’ of LTDA membership is:
“Normally when drivers accumulate 12 points on their licence they receive an automatic 6 month ban, but in the case of LTDA members, over 90% of those represented by our barristers receive a ban of just 1 month, or in most cases, no ban whatsoever.”
I doubt CPD is high on the priority list!
atgni wrote:Although as 1 of
How the hell does someone driving a taxi get points on their licence? They can’t speed – firstly because they’re in London and secondly because taxis are sloooow. Must be from careless/dangerous/drunken driving?
Gizmo_ wrote:atgni
How the hell does someone driving a taxi get points on their licence? They can’t speed – firstly because they’re in London and secondly because taxis are sloooow. Must be from careless/dangerous/drunken driving?— atgni
Jumping a light can get you three points.
That policy is one of the reasons I criticise the LTDA. A responsible organisation wouldn’t support such a policy, as even from self interest it would damage their image and reputation. They often try to take the moral high ground on public safety issues, and it’s not reflected in their policies.
Some may also remember they ran quite a high profile campaign against the enforcement of advanced stop lines.
Gizmo_ wrote:atgni
Taxis might look (and drive) like they’re from the 50s, but even London Cabs can make it over 30 mph. And there are now enough 20mph zones that even the most decrepit cabs can get a speeding ticket if they try.
More seriously though: If I had to bet, my money would be on red light cameras.
Well done Road.cc, John
=D> Well done Road.cc, John Stevenson…
What you have put in the headline is NOT what he said. Well done for fuelling the division and hatred.
Headline: Taxi leader says cyclists are the “Isis of London”
Actual statement: LTDA general secretary Steve McNamara told LBC radio: “These people, the zealots of the cycling world, are unbelievable. We have had cyber attacks on our websites. They are all over us like a cheap suit on Twitter and social media. We have had physical threats of violence. You name it, we have had it. It’s absolutely unreal.
“The loonies out there in the cycling world, they’re almost the sort of Isis of London. Their views and their politics – if you are not with them, and we are with the majority of it, then nothing is too bad for you. These people are unreal.”
His comment was inappropriate. I don’t necessarily agree with anything the LTDA say or do. However, the way you have reported this story is incorrect, inflamatory and unhelpful.
I like reading stuff on Road.cc most of the time. This type of stuff really p*sses me off though.
Not stopping for Red traffic
Not stopping for Red traffic lights;
Stopping in yellow box junctions;
Stopping on zig zags at crossings;
Using handheld mobile phone;
Lights not working.
All these are simple tickets or camera ones wIth points but without going to court.
Lol and they’re all in black with no hi-viz.
atgni wrote:
Lol and they’re
Blimey, it’s been a long time since I saw a black cab that was actually black!
A particular advertising trend that I don’t like is these blasted things on the roof, as they often block your view and distract people.
I actually thought this was
I actually thought this was about Isis the egyptian deity…
rookybiker wrote:I actually
Or the dog from Downton Abbey?
rookybiker wrote:I actually
And I thought it was about either the Oxford student magazine or river. I wish the recent “Come work for us” story had been about road.cc asking for a proof-reader…
I genuinely believe that it
I think the vast majority of cyclists do obey the rules, and the traffic stats show that cyclists are responsible for a very small percentage of accidents and injuries.
Is there any evidence to suggest that there is a problem with aggressive cyclists?
McNamara is making deliberately inflammatory statements based on the alleged behaviour of some (unspecified) indviduals. That will reinforce the prejudices of less enlightened motorists about all cyclists. This sort of stuff needs to be challenged. That’s not aggressive, it’s just calling out people who trot out lazy generalisations and making them accountable for what they say.
So he says:
“Perhaps that was
So he says:
“Perhaps that was a bit strong [to compare them to Isis] but I can’t think of a single other movement in the world at the moment that behaves in such a vitriolic and aggressive manner.”
In other words, it might be a bit strong but I stand by it…what a cun7
md6 wrote:So he
And in the style of a lazy generalisation about the actions of individuals, does anyone think Hailo vandalised their own office?
The only comment I can remember McNamara making about that was that “feelings were running high”.
I’m minded of comedian Mark
I’m minded of comedian Mark Steele’s summary of UKIP voters ‘people who think their whole life is someone else’s fault’.
I just would not ride on open
I just would not ride on open roads I london its sad and I’m sorry that I would be waving the white flag but Jesus it’s unreal, chapaeu to people who do brave the idiots in the traffic there.
“In 2013, the LTDA used
“In 2013, the LTDA used footage from a carefully-chosen junction to allege that 50 per cent of cyclists jump red lights, a finding completely at odds with more rigorous academic studies that have found the rate of red-light jumping of drivers and cyclists is about the same.”
At the risk of starting a “compulsory helmets” style debate …. I know red-light jumping by cyclists is a hot button, but I honestly don’t understand why.
A cyclist who fails to stop at a red light and causes an injury to another person should be prosecuted for doing so. For the most part, however, the only person that is likely to be injured when a cyclist fails to stop at a red light is the cyclist. (I admit to disregarding the effect on emergency service workers/cyclists’ family/witnesses.) Contrast this with the position where a motor vehicle fails to stop at a red light. In those circumstances, motor vehicle just as likely to cause significant damage to other road users. This isn’t a difference of degree, its a difference of kind, and to suggest otherwise is to force an artifical separatation between the act (running red light) and its actual/potential consequences (usually nothing/significant risk of injury).
The “but they run red lights” crowd appear to think that non-compliance by a small section of road users:
* excuses/mitigates their own non-compliance. The law doesn’t work this way; and
* justifies retributive action against the wrongdoer. The law doesn’t like vigilantes.
I suspect the vast majority of road users break the Highway Code every time they get into a car – driving (even marginally) over the speed limit being the most obvious example. I don’t think this excuses me from complying with the HC nor do I feel it’s my right to pursue all motorists and get all Judge Dredd on them.
The only question I would ask in response to a video that shows cyclists running red lights is “were any other road users hurt”; if the answer is “no”, then I don’t understand why it isn’t greeted with a collective shrug of indifference.
(I would add that I don’t care what running red lights does to the public perception of cyclists. Mostly “the public” is stupid. We are individuals riding bikes. My failure to stop at the occasional red lights doesn’t mean that you won’t stop every at red light you come across.)
Back on topic: I don’t find cab drivers to be any worse than other drivers, in fact they are marginally better in my experience because they aren’t in a hurry to get anywhere. Although I have a burn mark on my right Sidi where a cab got so close to me coming through the City that its front wheel was rubbing against my shoe.
surly_by_name wrote:
(I would
Problem is, that admission right there gives you no leg to stand on in any argument against law breaking and will just entrench the view that some motorists have of ‘cyclists’ as a group.
You may not care about public perception of ‘us’ but others do. Yes people shouldn’t stereotype groups (that’s the point of this whole article) but many do. But thanks for doing your bit to make the roads more dangerous for all of us and to give certain drivers more excuse for their actions and views..
That aside, this McNamara chap is every bit as bad as the ‘loonies’ he’s denouncing, by coming out with that ridiculous statement.
I guess cab drivers would
I guess cab drivers would benefit greatly if London was a less safe city in which to ride a bicycle. Just sayin’.
Traffic pollution causes
Traffic pollution causes about 4000 deaths in London per year, Black cabs cause 30% of inner London’s traffic pollution, so not 30% of 4000 but still a lot of deaths. Isis cause roughly zero deaths per year in London.
I’m not all that bothered by
I’m not all that bothered by his comments. They are a bit tasteless given that the actual ISIS are currently out there killing people. [by which I mean, disrespectful to the actual victims of ISIS rather than to cyclists]
But its human nature that if you are in a fight and some of the ‘other lot’ say some nasty things about you or make stupid threats (I’m guessing some of that has happened, some cyclists out there have presumably said some extreme things about and to the LDTA) you will probably say something angry and stupid in response. And he’s mostly retracted it anyway.
I’m more irritated by some of the posts here. These posters would, if the boot were on the other foot and a boss of a cycling campaign group had compared taxi-drivers to Nazis, be the first to go on and on about how this shows some cyclists are nutters ‘their own worst enemy’ etc etc. Instead they take this as yet another opportunity to attack cyclists and invoke the usual collective responsibility nonsense.
Some posters here just seem to identify entirely with the motorist lobby and never miss a trick to attack the straw-man idea that everyone who ever sits on a saddle is a saint, as if transport policy has anything to do with the morality of individual travellers.
And I’m bored of the ridiculous ‘giving us a bad name’ crap. I’m not responsible for other cyclists who might jump reds any more than every driver is responsible for all the other drivers who do it (and they do it _a lot_) or every pedestrian is responsible for all the pedestrians who mug people.
And even if every single cyclist somehow could be forced to behave perfectly via some bizarre cycling vigilantism, it wouldn’t make any difference to our car-centric culture.
I despair…
I despair…
Meanwhile,
Young restaurant
Meanwhile,
Young restaurant ‘rising star’ hit by taxi and killed on night out with friends in east London
Teenager dies after being hit by taxi just after midnight on New Year’s Day
That’s two killer cabbies in the space of a few weeks. Never mind any serious injuries that might have gone unreported.
Steve McNamara might wish to re-evaluate that ISIS claim.
Personally I think his comments were Uber the top…
congokid
You need to consider your legal position as you run the risk of defamation and or libel action being brought against you…. not to mention the the fact that there could be on going investigations and legal proceedings into these incidents that your comments could interfere with.
I’d also point out that this thread is in relation to the LTDA, who represent London Licensed Taxi Drivers …. your second link relates to an accident that occurred in Basingstoke.
Neither incidents involve cyclists.
2-4wheels wrote:congokid
You need to consider your legal position as you run the risk of defamation and or libel action being brought against you…. not to mention the the fact that there could be on going investigations and legal proceedings into these incidents that your comments could interfere with.
I’d also point out that this thread is in relation to the LTDA, who represent London Licensed Taxi Drivers …. your second link relates to an accident that occurred in Basingstoke.
Neither incidents involve cyclists.— congokid
Libel for pointing to two news reports, and factually stating the cab drivers killed? Homicide != murder, you know. Killing, likewise, doesn’t mean it was intentional.
The notes about interfering with an investigation is also twaddle, it’s public information being discussed.
What’s your agenda?
jacknorell wrote:2-4wheels
You need to consider your legal position as you run the risk of defamation and or libel action being brought against you…. not to mention the the fact that there could be on going investigations and legal proceedings into these incidents that your comments could interfere with.
I’d also point out that this thread is in relation to the LTDA, who represent London Licensed Taxi Drivers …. your second link relates to an accident that occurred in Basingstoke.
Neither incidents involve cyclists.— 2-4wheels
Libel for pointing to two news reports, and factually stating the cab drivers killed? Homicide != murder, you know. Killing, likewise, doesn’t mean it was intentional.
The notes about interfering with an investigation is also twaddle, it’s public information being discussed.
What’s your agenda?— congokid
I think you well know the context in which the word “killers” was used in the posting. Examples of this context are news paper head lines proclaiming the malicious and intentional act of killing…. for instance “The Bulger Killers…..”.
The accidents referred to in the links are road traffic accidents, which regrettably resulted in the death of two people.
No court case has yet proven any guilt and as such it is completely inappropriate to brand any persons involved as killers.
Furthermore, such comments could prejudice the ability of a fair and safe prosecution. That can lead to charges of perverting the course of justice and or perjury.
My agenda is two fold. Firstly to help stop anyone getting themselves in trouble for shooting their mouths off and secondly to stem the tide of the hatred being promoted towards motorists and particularly irrationally towards the London Taxi trade.
This them and us attitude serves nobody. We should promote tollerance and cohesion.
2-4wheels wrote: …
My
How do you propose to stop cabbies from doing vicious punishment passes then? Seriously, I had nothing against cabbies until I was upset several times by their appalling and malicious driving.
2-4wheels wrote:
The
If I kill someone, intentionally or not, then I am a killer. It is (I would think) a neutral and descriptive term. Nobody has said that the drivers were murderers, which of course does ascribe intention.
2-4wheels wrote:congokid
You need to consider your legal position as you run the risk of defamation and or libel action being brought against you…. not to mention the the fact that there could be on going investigations and legal proceedings into these incidents that your comments could interfere with.
I’d also point out that this thread is in relation to the LTDA, who represent London Licensed Taxi Drivers …. your second link relates to an accident that occurred in Basingstoke.
Neither incidents involve cyclists.— congokid
Not entirely sure that Congokid needs to consider his legal position as he is simply stating his opinion. All posts on a discussion forum are opinions so there is no need for him to state that it is his opinion, otherwise all posts would have to start “In my opinion…”
The original story can be libellous if it can be proved to be misleading, untrue or calculated to harm, etc. but posts arising from the story can not.
Mostly interesting comments,
Mostly interesting comments, but nobody seems to have made the most pertinent point: How do I ensure that next time I visit London, I don’t use a LTDA vehicle?
burtthebike wrote:How do I
Take your own or use a Barclays Bike.
atgni wrote:burtthebike
Taking your own is rather tricky for casual visitors, since most train companies, in their infinite wisdom have banned bikes from any trains you might actually want to travel on if you’re gainfully employed and could thus afford their fares( by living in a shed and occasionally skipping meals).
I exaggerate, but not by much.
Boris bikes are really extremely convenient, and remarkably good value compared to all other transport options in London.
Alternatively, we have a
Alternatively, we have a metro system we affectionately call the ‘tube’ which will take you many places for less than black cabs. Also, if desperate, there are urban train lines, and even buses if you’re really brave.
I wish all you cyclist in
I wish all you cyclist in London would drive to work for a month.The taxi and bus companies would be begging you to get back on your bikes and would treat you much better 👿
What a fucking idiot. I can
What a fucking idiot. I can picture the retarded fat prick now….
“Perhaps that was a bit
“Perhaps that was a bit strong [to compare them to Isis] but I can’t think of a single other movement in the world at the moment that behaves in such a vitriolic and aggressive manner.”
Whilst I don’t condone the nasty threats, it doesn’t surprise me, I’ve had punishment passes from London black cabs, some extremely dangerous and obviously deliberate. I’ve had a black cab squeeze into my lane and undertake me on a large roundabout. Most black cab drivers don’t seem to know or care about what a safe passing distance is, being close-passed is mostly what makes cycling unpleasant in London. Perhaps if the LTDA addressed cabbies poor driving and didn’t call equate cyclists to ISIS, there might not be such vitriol.
[quoute]“He told Evening
[quoute]“He told Evening Standard journalist Ross Lydall: “Perhaps I would accept that was a bit strong. It was a live interview. I have had death threats. They say, ‘I hope people you know die screaming of cancer’. I’m convinced that if 99 per cent of cyclists knew some of the stuff we had received after expresing legitimate concerns, they would be horrified.
“I’m not going to be intimidated. I don’t take them seriously. We have not reported anything to the police because I don’t think there is anything in them. I think it’s just a few loonies, but they really have got a sort of religious zeal.
“Perhaps that was a bit strong [to compare them to Isis] but I can’t think of a single other movement in the world at the moment that behaves in such a vitriolic and aggressive manner.”[/quote]
The reason his apology (of sorts)is completely disingenuous is apparent in the exact language he has used:
He states that he has received death threats and knows that 99% of cyclists would find that behaviour abhorent yet, goes on to say this framed in a VERY specific way:
So he sees that all cyclists are collectively responsible for the actions of a few individuals, and so its quite fair to liken that movement to Daesh (I refuse to call that organisation what they want to be called but by the name that has been given to them by the French press).
Steve McNamara then, by his own measure is a rapist and he should shut his fucking rapist mouth.
That muppet only confirms my
That muppet only confirms my decision two years ago to stop using black cabs and Addison Lee was correct.
The apology was nothing of
The apology was nothing of the sort. It’s the current non-apology trotted out by the politicos all the time.
Sorry. Not sorry.
An apology means accepting the injury caused, taking responsibility for it, and a promise not to repeat it.
He simply re-stated the same accusation right after saying it ‘may’ have been going to far…
McNamara insulted every person on a bike twice, yet so many seem to think he apologised.
Which is why the non-apology remains in use…
The police doesn’t use the
The police doesn’t use the word ‘accident’ anymore, as there’s always a causative party. They use ‘incident’. Stats show drivers of motor vehicles are fully responsible for incidents in the majority of cases.
Then, the newspaper articles have already brought the issue of the deaths caused by a vehicle smashing into those people out walking quite widely. That fact killed those people, and the vehicles were driven by taxi drivers. Those are facts.
Yes, I get it, you drive a taxi. You probably even drive it well, I hope you are very vocal with your colleagues about vulnerable road users and how motor vehicles are often used to intimidate, or kill through inattention or aggression?
I’ll stop looking askance at taxi drivers when they stop yelling things like ‘I’ll run you over’ when behind me, thanks very much. Some of them seem to have a problem with me existing, I have a problem with how they behave.
jacknorell:
the newspaper
jacknorell:
the newspaper articles in question report the known facts and only those facts, which they know as professional reporters, will not be prejudicial to the on going enquiries that the police are making.
They do not use pejorative terms such as “Killer Cabbies” or “vehicle smashing into”.
Such phrasing is insightful.
As to whether or not I am a London Taxi driver, well if I were, then according to some comments posted on Road.cc, I must be a fat, ill educated, unintelligent, bigotted, road menace, killer runt (quote). Would I admit to that in this inhospitable environment? Think what you like.
What I do admit to, is that I cycle and I drive.
As for abusive talk, it happens both ways. Whilst a motorist, ableit stationary in traffic, I have been verbally accosted by a man on a bike who claimed that he would find out where I lived and would then burn my house down whilst my wife and children slept. It still shocks me.
But then this is just another anecdote in the tit for tat verbal sparing that achieves nothing other than to illustrate that very point.
I would encourage all participants on this public platform, especially people like yourself with much experience in digital media/marketing, to promote cycling positevely, pursue safety progress, but to do so in a way that does not pigeon hole cyclists as aggressive, millitant, intolerant, fascists and Holier than thou.
Good luck and I wish you well.
Personally I like self
Personally I like self interest organisations that have spokespeople that truly reflect the opinions of their members and who are dumb enough not to understand that their views may not be held by everyone.
Shows in public how little real concern they have beyond furthering their own. So much better than smooth PR in the foreground and corrosive counsel in hidden corridors.