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How to decide between these two super-popular groupsets

[This article was last updated on April 5, 2018]

If you’re choosing between Shimano Tiagra and Shimano 105 – either fitted to a complete bike or as an upgrade on an existing bike – here’s everything you need to know to make the right decision.

A groupset is a component manufacturer’s collection of mechanical parts, usually covering the derailleurs, shifters, brakes, chainset, bottom bracket, cassette and chain. Brands group these parts into various different levels.

If you want to know more about what a groupset is, check out our beginner’s guide.

Shimano offers six road groupsets. Starting at the top these are:

• Dura-Ace
• Ultegra
• 105
• Tiagra
• Sora
• Claris

Plus, Dura-Ace and Ultegra are available with Di2 electronic shifting, and Dura-Ace, Ultegra and 105 are also available with hydraulic disc brakes, and Shimano offers both hydraulic and cable discs for Tiagra

A complete Shimano Tiagra groupset (chainset, shifters, derailleurs, chain, cassette, brakes, bottom bracket) starts at £502.91 while a Shimano 105 groupset starts at £662.91. That’s a difference of £160.

However, both groupsets are widely available heavily discounted. You can pick up a Tiagra group for about £250, and 105 for as little as £350, though cheap deals like that usually don't offer the full range of chainring, cassette and crank length options.

Read more: Complete guide to Shimano groupsets

The biggest difference between the groupsets is that 105 – which is the most popular groupset in the world, according to Shimano – is 11-speed (there are 11 sprockets on the cassette) whereas Tiagra is 10-speed.

Tiagra is offered with both a double chainset (there are two chainrings) and a triple chainset (there are three chainrings) whereas 105 comes as a double only.

Although 105 is more expensive, most of the same technology features on Tiagra, and they work in exactly the same way. Tiagra components are a little heavier. As ever, you pay more for lighter weight.

Check out our Shimano 105 5800 groupset review here.

Check out our Shimano Tiagra 4700 groupset review here.

Dual control levers

  Weight RRP Online price
Tiagra 493g (pair) £219.99 £114.95
105 486g (pair) £224.99 £124.99

The main difference between the dual control levers is that Tiagra (below) is a 10-speed system and 105 is 11-speed.

Shimano-Tiagra-4700---STI-lever

Shimano-Tiagra-4700---STI-lever

In both cases the bracket is made from GFRP (glass-fibre reinforced plastic), the main lever is aluminium, and you get screw-operated reach adjustment to bring the levers closer to the handlebar for smaller hands.

When we reviewed the Shimano 105 groupset we praised the shift action of the dual control levers (below).

Shimano 105 - levers.jpg

Shimano 105 - levers.jpg

“The new shift action is the same as that found on Shimano’s top two groupsets (Dura-Ace and Ultegra) and is so light and precise it doesn't feel that far removed from [electronic] Di2 shifting at times, thanks mostly to the much shorter throw at the lever,” we said.

“Each shift is much quicker than previously and the resulting positive click as the gear is selected makes it feel more like a button touch than a lever. The new polymer coated cables are responsible for part of this as are the redesigned front and rear derailleurs.”

The latest version of Tiagra has cables that are routed underneath the handlebar tape like the higher level Shimano groupsets.

When we reviewed Tiagra we said, “Shift feel is perhaps a little heavier than Dura-Ace or Ultegra, but that's an unfair criticism given the huge price difference.”

Unlike 105, Tiagra is available with a triple chainset (with three chainrings rather than two, see below). If you want to go down that route you’ll need to buy the compatible dual control levers.

Dual pivot brakes

  Weight RRP Typical price
Tiagra 360g (pair) £58.98 (pair) £44.89 (pair)
105 388g (pair) £94.98 (pair) £49.99 (pair)

One of the biggest differences between 105 and Tiagra is the braking performance.

Shimano 105 brake caiipers.jpg

Shimano 105 brake caiipers.jpg

Shimano calls its latest calliper design SLR-EV Dual Pivot and this is now found on 105 (above), Ultegra and Dura-Ace. The new symmetrical twin pivot design equalises the braking forces through each arm for better control and power.

Slowing rather than stopping can be achieved with just a couple of fingers applying pressure to the lever and it's easy to avoid locking a wheel. The brake pad compound feels a little more grippy than the previous version in both wet and dry conditions.

Shimano Tiagra 4700 brake caliper.jpg

Shimano Tiagra 4700 brake caliper.jpg

The latest Tiagra brakes (above) do provide more stopping ability than before but they aren’t a patch on 105. The brakes will certainly stop you in a hurry, they're just lacking in feel and feedback through the levers.

The one-piece brake blocks also exhibit some flex, and changing them isn't as simple as swapping a brake pad in more expensive cartridge brakes such as those found on 105 and Ultegra.

Both 105 and Tiagra will accept tyres up to 28mm.

105 is also available in a direct mount option (you need to have a compatible frame and fork) where the brake arms bolt straight on to the frame/fork rather than via a central bolt. There is no Tiagra direct mount option.

Disc brakes

  Weight RRP Online price
Tiagra hydraulic NA £449.99 £274.09
105 NA £499.99 £299.95

The main difference between the Tiagra and 105 hydraulic brake systems is that the 105 STI units are 11-speed, while the Tiagra are 10-speed. They're otherwise functionally and ergonomically very similar.

We really liked the stopping power of Shimano's 105 disc brakes when they were introduced in early 2016, though we weren't as impressed with the shifting. But if you want to improve the stopping power of a bike currently equipped with mechanical discs they're an upgrade that makes lots of sense.

Shimano 105 disc brakes.jpg

Shimano 105 disc brakes.jpg

We've also been impressed with the Tiagra hydraulic discs. They were fitted to the Genesis Datum 10 that Mike Stead tested in mid-2017, and he commented: "I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Shimano can do no wrong brake-wise, the performance being consistently excellent across all specs from base model non-series to Dura-Ace. Stopping power is enhanced by the use of a 160mm rotor up front, meaning there's never any need for more than two fingers on the levers, even with hands on the hoods let alone in the drops." The Tiagra brakes specifically boosted the Datum 10's performance downhill: "the wide tyres and hydraulic brakes give you the confidence to bomb rough-tarmac descents without fear."

Shimano Tiagra disc brakes.jpg

Shimano Tiagra disc brakes.jpg

Quirks of Shimano's pricing structure mean that you can buy an entire groupset for not much more than the cost of a set of disc brakes. For example, a hydraulic disc-brake Tiagra group can be had for £435, and a hydraulic disc-brake 105 set for £500. If you had a bike with 10-speed Tiagra and mechanical discs, it's hard to see why you wouldn't go straight to the full 105 group, rather than just upgrading the brakes.

Chainset

  Weight RRP Typical price
Tiagra 910g (50-34 tooth) £109.99 £60.99
105 725g (50-34 tooth) £154.99 £90.99

Shimano Tiagra (below) and 105 each feature chainsets with aluminium crank arms and a steel axle. They both use a four-arm spider with uneven spacing between those arms, the idea being to provide strength and stiffness where it’s needed while keeping the weight low.

Shimano Tiagra 4700 chainset triple.jpg

Shimano Tiagra 4700 chainset triple.jpg

The outer ring in both cases is aluminium/GFRP. Again, the design is intended to provide stiffness.

Both 105 and Tiagra are available in 165mm, 170mm, 172.5mm and 175mm crank lengths.

Chainring options are slightly different. With 105 you can decide between 53-39, 52-36 and 50-34 tooth setups but Tiagra lacks the traditional, racing-orientated 53-39 option.

On the other hand, Tiagra is available in a triple chainset configuration: 50-39-30. You’ll need to buy other groupset components that are compatible with it, of course.

All 105 (below) and Tiagra chainsets use the same bolt circle diameter (BCD, 110mm) so it’s easy to swap from one size of chainring to another.

Shimano 105 - cranks.jpg

Shimano 105 - cranks.jpg

When we reviewed Shimano 105 we said, “Shimano chainsets have always been renowned for their stiffness and this version is no different. In fact the chainrings have been reinforced to make it stiffer than the chainset it replaces. Regardless of how much power you put through the cranks there is no detectable flex there whatsoever.”

As commenters have pointed out, the 105 chainset is significantly lighter than the Tiagra, but is reported to work fine in an otherwise Tiagra set up, so if you have a Tiagra bike, a 105 is a worthwhile upgrade.

Front derailleur

  Weight RRP Typical price
Tiagra 106g £34.99 (band on) £15.99
105 104g £32.99 (band on) £26.49

The 105 (below) and Tiagra front derailleurs are made from the same materials – aluminium with a chrome plated stainless steel chain guide – and each comes in braze on and band on varieties to suit different frames

Shimano 105 front derailleur.jpg

Shimano 105 front derailleur.jpg

The differences are that the 105 front derailleur is suitable for 11-speed use and a large chainring of between 46 and 53 teeth while the Tiagra one (below) is 10-speed compatible and takes a large chainring of between 46 and 52 teeth (if you want to use a chainring larger than 53-teeth, Shimano says you have to go all the way up to a top level Dura-Ace front derailleur). You can also get a Tiagra front derailleur that’s suitable for use with a triple chainset.

Shimano Tiagra 4700 front mech.jpg

Shimano Tiagra 4700 front mech.jpg

When we reviewed the Shimano 105 groupset we said, “The front mech’s longer, newly shaped link arm creates more leverage and therefore requires less effort to effect the shift. Couple that with a new spring mechanism and the shifting is smooth, fast and precise.”

We found the Tiagra front derailleur to shift cleanly, smoothly and quietly, even under load.

Rear derailleur

  Weight RRP Typical price
Tiagra 277g (long cage) £37.99 (short), £39.99 (long) £24.99
105 234g (short cage), 250g (long cage) £47.99 (short), £52.99 (long ) £29.95 - £34

Tiagra105

The Tiagra and 105 (below) rear derailleurs are very similar, although the Tiagra version is designed to be used as part of a 10-speed setup while the 105 version is designed for 11-speed. Each is made with a bracket body, plate body and plates made from aluminium.

dolan-l-etape-rear-mech.jpg

dolan-l-etape-rear-mech.jpg

Both Tiagra and 105 rear derailleurs come in short cage and long cage versions for use with different cassettes.

Go for the long cage version of 105 and you can use a largest sprocket with 32 teeth while Tiagra allows you to go to 34-tooth for an even lower gear to help you get up the steepest of climbs.

“The geometry of the 105 rear derailleur has been changed quite a bit [from the previous version of 105] as has the cable pitch,” we said when we reviewed it.

“Thanks to that and the new lighter spring balance the shifting is absolutely spot on. With the bike on the workstand we played a game of seeing how fast we could shift before the mech became flustered but it's safe to say your finger will make a mistake first. Up and down the cassette in a blur goes the chain.”

Shimano Tiagra 4700 rear mech mid cage.jpg

Shimano Tiagra 4700 rear mech mid cage.jpg

When we reviewed Tiagra we said, “Shimano says it has revised the cable pitch on the rear derailleur (above), claiming it now offers 'precise and long-lasting shifting performance'. It's certainly living up to those claims compared with old Tiagra.”

Cassette

  Weight RRP Typical price
Tiagra 355g (11-32) £29.99 (11-25, 11-28), £34.99 (11-32, 11-34) £17.93-£22.49
105 269g (12-25) £49.99 (12-25, 11-28), £54.99 (11-32) £32-£34.99

The Tiagra and 105 cassettes both feature nickel plated steel sprockets although the 105 version has an a spider arm and a lockring made from anodised aluminium and it’s considerably lighter. The biggest difference, though, is that a 105 cassette is 11-speed while a Tiagra one is 10-speed.

105 is available in 11-25, 11-32 and 12-25 tooth options while Tiagra comes in 11-25, 12-28 11-32 and a very wide range 11-34 tooth.

Shimano 105 - cassette.jpg

Shimano 105 - cassette.jpg

When he reviewed Shimano 105 (above) Stu said, “Resistance to wear has always been a reason for me to buy 105 sprockets even with an Ultegra or Dura-Ace equipped bike, and that remains here as the nickel-plated sprockets are standing up to pretty much anything you can throw at it.

“The shifting is sharp and those computer designed tooth profiles must be doing their job as even under load there were no missed shifts.”

Chain

  Weight RRP Typical price
Tiagra 273g (114 links) £19.99 £12.99
105 257g (114 links) £29.99 £16.99

The 105 chain (below) is 11-speed rather than 10-speed, so it’s narrower and a little lighter than the Tiagra version.

Shimano 105 - chain.jpg

Shimano 105 - chain.jpg

They both run very quietly thanks to Sil-Tec (PTFE) coated links.

Bottom bracket

  Weight RRP Typical price
Tiagra 92g (threaded), 71g (press-fit) £16.99 £11.95
105 77g (threaded), 69g (press-fit) £29.99 £16.00
Shimano 105 - bottom bracket.jpg

Shimano 105 - bottom bracket.jpg

The Tiagra press-fit bottom bracket is nearly as light as the 105 version. Although the threaded model is quite a bit heavier than the 105 one (above) in percentage terms, you’re still only talking about 15g, and that’s negligible considering the overall weight of your bike.

Conclusion

Tiagra is a really impressive groupset. It does everything you want from a mid-level road bike with only a few minor quibbles. The biggest decision is whether you're really fussed about having the 11-speed of Shimano's more expensive 105.

If you go for Tiagra you can’t upgrade to 105 one component at a time because 10-speed and 11-speed drivetrain components aren’t interchangeable – at least not officially. You’d have to upgrade most of the groupset components at once for optimum performance. As well as an 11-speed cassette having an extra sprocket, the spacing between those sprockets is smaller, an 11-speed chain is narrower than a 10-speed chain, the derailleur shift ratios are different and, obviously, an 11-speed shifter has one more position than a 10-speed one.

If you go for 105, on the other hand, you could swap to Ultegra or Dura-Ace gradually as each component wears out. That might be attractive, but only if you’re realistically likely to do this.

If you want really low gears, Tiagra might be the better choice because you can get a cassette with a 34-tooth largest sprocket. The maximum you can have with 105 is 32-tooth.

The other major difference between the two groupsets is that the 105 brakes are considerably better than Tiagra ones. They are a real highlight both in terms of all-out power and fingertip control.

Tiagra offers excellent value for money but 105 is certainly the better groupset and we’d recommend going for it if your funds allow because of the better brakes, the small weight saving and the upgrade to 11-speed.

Mat has worked for loads of bike magazines over 20+ years, and been editor of 220 Triathlon and Cycling Plus. He's been road.cc technical editor for eight years, testing bikes, fettling the latest kit, and trying out the most up-to-the-minute clothing. We send him off around the world to get all the news from launches and shows too. He has won his category in Ironman UK 70.3 and finished on the podium in both marathons he has run. Mat is a Cambridge graduate who did a post-grad in magazine journalism, and he is a past winner of the Cycling Media Award for Specialist Online Writer.

30 comments

Avatar
Batchy [400 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

Just say that you can mix and match some of the components. For example I run a 105 5700 10s groupset with a 5800 11s chainset and brakes. They work flawlessly so there is no reason to think otherwise regarding Viagra 10s and 105 11s.

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alotronic [547 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

I have new Tiagra on my Datum, 5600 105 on another bike and 6400 Ultegra on another.  All very good, but new Tiagra is better than older 105 - hoods are nicer shape, lighter shifting.

The only rubbish thing about the new Tiagra is the weight of that chainset - it weighs a ton. It doesn't help the feel of the bike at all and it's around 200gm heavier than a cheap chainset like a miche, or even the old-school square-taper triples.

If I wanted a triple these days then I would buy a tiagra set and immediatley swap the chainset out - then I would be very happy.

The bike I bought (a lovely gensis Datum) was substantially cheaper in Tiagra form, and the whole range had the same (crappy) wheels. The money saved will go where it matters - wheels! And that chainset  1

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cyclesteffer [323 posts] 1 year ago
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Agree with the comments above - You can mix the Ten Speed Tiagra 4700 but add a 105 5800 Chainset if you want.

Also New Tiagra 4700 is much crisper than old 105 5700, plus its got the adjustment of the levers, whereas 105 5700 did not.

This might be an important consideration if you are considering possibly buying a 2nd hand bike because its got 105 5700. If the price difference between it, and a new bike with Tiagra 4700 is minimal. Buy the new bike with Tiagra instead. It will be better.

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daturaman [22 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

FWIW you can fit cartridge brakes to the Tiagra calipers.

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pockstone [177 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

Are the latest Tiagra rear derailleurs compatible with 105 (5700) 10 sp. shifters? (And vice versa, ie are new Tiagra shifters OK to work with a 5700 105 derailleur?)

 My plan to increase the size of my cassette to 32 teeth got very complicated when I was informed that Tiagra had a different cable pull to 105. Phase 1 saw me making do with 30 teeth which works  fine with the 105 mech( despite it having a nominal maximum of 28 teeth).

Phase 2 paired a 9 spd Alivio MTB mech. with a 34 tooth cassette. Not really a success but that may have been down to a cable kink problem.

Phase 3 swapped the Alivio for a Deore XT mech. which seems to work much more smoothly. (Not actually ridden it further than round the block yet.)

Unfortunately I can foresee a Phase 4 when the 105 shifters give up the ghost. Will I be able to replace them with new Tiagra shifters and be able to swap between the XT and 105 mechs as the mood takes me? Or is the 'revised cable pitch'  a bit of built in obsolescence?

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Simon E [3236 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
alotronic wrote:

The only rubbish thing about the new Tiagra is the weight of that chainset - it weighs a ton. It doesn't help the feel of the bike at all and it's around 200gm heavier than a cheap chainset like a miche, or even the old-school square-taper triples.

An extra 185g compared to 105 is "rubbish"? That seems a bit OTT to me. Perhaps it's time to start drilling holes in your saddle...

The lighter, more expensive chainrings are hollow. I believe this means that they wear out quicker.

The difference in cost of replacing chain & cassette is less than I had expected: at RRP in the table £50 (4700) v £80 (5800), while CRC prices are £38 and £50.

Avatar
Richard1982 [96 posts] 1 year ago
4 likes
Simon E wrote:

The lighter, more expensive chainrings are hollow. I believe this means that they wear out quicker.

I don't see how the chainrings being hollow would affect the wear on the teeth.

Avatar
StraelGuy [1306 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

I have the 5800 cranks and the teeth aren't hollow. The big ring is a 3D forging and there is a ring of hollow dimples around the inside edge below the teeth to save weight.

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mike the bike [1039 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
cyclesteffer wrote:

  ...... Also New Tiagra 4700 is much crisper than old 105 5700, plus its got the adjustment of the levers, whereas 105 5700 did not ...... 

 

Not sure about that Mr Steffer.  My current 105 (5700) has the usual plastic shims that take up lever travel.  They are a different shape from the Tiagra's but work just as well.

Avatar
Simon E [3236 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
Richard1982 wrote:

I don't see how the chainrings being hollow would affect the wear on the teeth.

No, but I remember it being mentioned. Different material?

Avatar
barbarus [530 posts] 1 year ago
11 likes
Batchy wrote:

They work flawlessly so there is no reason to think otherwise regarding Viagra 10s and 105 11s.

Stiff competition then!

Avatar
Batchy [400 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
Batchy wrote:

Just say that you can mix and match some of the components. For example I run a 105 5700 10s groupset with a 5800 11s chainset and brakes. They work flawlessly so there is no reason to think otherwise regarding Viagra 10s and 105 11s.

Further to this, I also run a 6700 Ultegra 10s groupset and apart from a slight weight penalty my 5700 105 functions equally as well, if not smoother, than the Ultegra. If I ever need a new groupset in future it will be 105 as it is quite frankly unbeatable for function and value.

Avatar
Duncann [1264 posts] 1 year ago
3 likes
barbarus wrote:
Batchy wrote:

They work flawlessly so there is no reason to think otherwise regarding Viagra 10s and 105 11s.

Stiff competition then!

Makes it hard to choose!

Avatar
Disfunctional_T... [291 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
pockstone wrote:

Phase 1 saw me making do with 30 teeth which works  fine with the 105 mech( despite it having a nominal maximum of 28 teeth).

Get the 5701. The Shimano 5701 rear derailleur is spec'd for handling a 32-tooth cog, and can probably handle quite a bit larger, depending on your rear hanger.

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ianmoss [2 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

Just a note un 'mix and match.

I replaced the long cage Tiagra 4700 with a shortcage, and went for the 105 10 speed (5700) which you would think would be a straight swap... It's not.

I couldn't get the shifting / indexing right.

When I researched the issue, people were saying that the whole mecahnicals of the shifter (cable pull) and the motion of the RD were the same as 5800 and 6800. So if you plan on a swap, ignor the 'speed' of the parts and go for the latest generation.

It would seem that the base mechanicals of the shifters internals are the same as 105 and Ultagra but with 10 clicks instead of 11...!!!

I must say, I was sceptical of the tiagra being the 'lower' range of croupset, but that was the option of the BMC in my prefered colour came in. (more of a decision on the great frame than the whole bike package) It has been flawless, all summer, I did change the brake pads for the latest cartridge inserts though, much better!

Avatar
Batchy [400 posts] 1 year ago
1 like
Duncann]</p>

<p>[quote=barbarus

wrote:
Batchy wrote:

They work flawlessly so there is no reason to think otherwise regarding Viagra 10s and 105 11s.

Stiff competition then!

Makes it hard to choose!

[/quote

Yeah this Nexus of mine is highly unpricktable !

Avatar
caaad10 [189 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

"if you go for 105, on the other hand, you could swap to Ultegra or Dura-Ace gradually as each component wears out. That might be attractive, but only if you’re realistically likely to do this."

In theory, then yes - but in reality by the time anything actually starts to wear out Ultegra and Dura Ace will probably  have made some sort of change that makes it impossible, like going to 12 speed for example. One of of the reasons I chose my old bike was because the 105 was 10 speed, like Ultegra and Dura Ace of the same period.

Avatar
RW [19 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

"

Phase 2 paired a 9 spd Alivio MTB mech. with a 34 tooth cassette. Not really a success but that may have been down to a cable kink problem.

Phase 3 swapped the Alivio for a Deore XT mech. which seems to work much more smoothly. (Not actually ridden it further than round the block yet.)

"

I had a lot of problems with my 5700/9sp XT mech setup until I was shown how to attach the rear mech cable to the XT mech. It needs to be attached via the upper side of the pinch bolt on the mech, rather than below the bolt as intended if running mtb shifters.

When the shifters give up the ghost, you might consider using a regular road groupset with a Wolftooth Roadlink RD hanger. That'll cope with up to a 40t cassette.

Avatar
pockstone [177 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

Thanks Disfunctional T... & RW, I'll keep an eye on the shifting. Seems OK on the bike stand but past experience tells me that 'on the road' is adifferent matter. It's a  Shadow mech and the angle of the cable already looks a bit contorted when attached to below the pinch bolt. 

Thanks for the hanger advice also. My knees may well appreciate 40 teeth.

Avatar
Woldsman [235 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
pockstone wrote:

Thanks Disfunctional T... & RW, I'll keep an eye on the shifting. Seems OK on the bike stand but past experience tells me that 'on the road' is adifferent matter. It's a  Shadow mech and the angle of the cable already looks a bit contorted when attached to below the pinch bolt...

I have what is mainly a 10sp triple Shimano 105 setup (5703) and a Shimano XT Shadow 9sp (M772) rear derailleur on my 'winter' bike.  In my experience it shouldn't require any special contorting at the pinch bolt (the so-called 'hubhub' method?) and the only adaptation I've had to make is to cut the cable outer to insert a Jagwire inline adjuster as this particular model of rear mech does not have a barrel adjuster.

If you don't mind my suggestions perhaps it is worth looking first at replacing the inner cable as it's the cheapest thing to do, then if that doesn't work maybe having the rear mech hanger alignment checked. (On my olde worlde 10sp Ultegra (6700) bike I replaced both the rear mech and hanger and was never satisfied with the shifting.  I eventually bought a Park Tool DAG2.2 and straightened the hanger.  Even with brand new rear mech and hanger the alignment had been some way out.  Just a thought.)

(And as a further aside on the 105 v Tiagra discussion - I bought a friend the 5800 calipers and fitted them on her bike as her mainly 4700 setup came with Tektro (?) calipers that weren't up to much.  Apart from some initial faffage with the ferrules everything worked fine together. 'New Super-dooper SLR' or whatever.)

 

Avatar
Vejnemojnen [271 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes
ianmoss wrote:

Just a note un 'mix and match.

I replaced the long cage Tiagra 4700 with a shortcage, and went for the 105 10 speed (5700) which you would think would be a straight swap... It's not.

I couldn't get the shifting / indexing right.

 

 

no offence, but it was obvious fact since the 47.. came out, that it uses a different actuation ratio as that of older 10 spd components.

 

so I do not even get, why did you even try to do such a mix. A 11spd 5800 derailleur works well with 4700 shifters, but it is well known, that older 10spd components are with a different ratio (shorter cable pull-larger actuation ratio of the derailleur)

 

why did you even try to mix the 47xx with SiS (1.67 ratio) components?

 

edit: just look at side-by-side comparison pictures of older (sis-ratio) derailleurs and the new-line 9000-6800-5800-4700 rds. they hardly have any resemblance in terms of fixing bolt position compared to pivot bolts, and their side plates differ as well.

 

nb: the new sora r3000 actually is still with the old actuation ratio, therefore, you can use older shimano rear derailleurs with the new concealed-cable sora shifters without any issues.

Avatar
pockstone [177 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

Quote: 'I have what is mainly a 10sp triple Shimano 105 setup (5703) and a Shimano XT Shadow 9sp (M772) rear derailleur on my 'winter' bike.  In my experience ...'

Thanks Woldsman.

Tidy job.

Cable was replaced quite recently and has been working fine since.

I have a barrel adjuster on the down tube so, with careful pretensioning of the cable, I've been able  to adjust the indexing with travel to spare in the event of stretch.

The outer cable at the rear mech needs shortening so when I do that I'll introduce an adjuster as you have. (I can't help but notice that you have a bit of a long loop at the back too! Possibly to accommodate the adjuster?)

When did it all become so complicated?!!!

Avatar
Vejnemojnen [271 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

my grief if the lack of cassette choice.

 

a 13-25 or 13-26 would be very good imho, the smaller the increments are, the better. campag has very good ratio 10 speed cassettes, whereas shimano forces this ridiculous trend with 11-12t starting cogs, which are mostly left untouched by free-time weekend warriors 99% of the time..

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tsarouxaz [107 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

tiagra 4700 series 10sp shifters and deraileurs have totaly diferent shift-pull ratio than other road shimano 10sp systems. be aware of that. you cannot use tiagra 4700 shifters with an 105 or ultegra 10sp deraileur, nor 105 or ultegra shifters of 10sp with the tiagra 5700 10sp deraileurs. shimano has changed the ratios on the 11sp shifters to be more presice and it has moved this to the tiagra line. if you want to go inexpensive, go for  new tiagra 10sp not 105 10sp. 

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stenmeister [351 posts] 1 year ago
0 likes

The Shimano website here shows you what is compatible between various generations of 105 and Tiagra.

 

http://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com/

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barbarus [530 posts] 1 year ago
1 like

Shimano have done a good job with the colour of the tiagra stuff though. Squint, and it could be ultegra.

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kil0ran [785 posts] 5 months ago
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In the last two years I've gone from Ultegra Di2 to 105 and now a mix of 105 & Tiagra on both bikes. Tiagra shifters and mechs are proving to be utterly reliable and were easy to set up. Unless you need 11 speeds, go with Tiagra and spend the difference on top quality finishing kit.

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don simon [1979 posts] 5 months ago
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Looking at a caliper upgrade and have come a cross this.

Quote:

The Shimano 5800 has gone 11 Speed for the latest incarnation of the 105. The 5800 has been inspired by the innovations of the more upper end Shimano Ultegra and Dura Ace; you can see the technological influences across the design of the 5800 components.  More advanced and lighter than its predecessors and with a more eye catching design, the 5800 promises high performance and is one of the latest cycling must haves. 

Specifications:

Enhanced brake arch proportions give a quicker linear response and increased power
Must be used in conjunction with ST-5800, ST-6800 or ST-9000 STIs for correct leverage ratio
Dual-pivot calliper brake with super SLR-EV design for quick linear response, increased rigidity and improved braking power
Low profile outer cable stop position improves cable routing for reduced friction
Cartridge brake shoes for easy replacement
Convex washers on the brake shoes offer toe-in brake adjustment and easy alignment
Lightweight aluminium construction, with an anodised finish to preserve the good looks
Compatible with 28c tyres
49 mm drop

What the hell?

Does mean that they will not function with 4700 levers?

I don't understand where the leverage ratio comes in to the degree that the brakes won't work, and thus must be used with...

Nor what the number of gears has to do with brake calipers.

 

#Shitmano

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kil0ran [785 posts] 3 months ago
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4700 levers work absolutely fine with 105 calipers. Excellent feel and response, perfectly able to haul my considerable bulk up on a sixpence, even with caliper brakes. Check the compatibility chart on si.shimano.com - when 5800 was released it didn't work with 4600 levers as the pull ratio was different, that's changed and everything from 4700 up uses the same ratio now. Agreed that shouldn't affect braking.

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kil0ran [785 posts] 3 months ago
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Article needs updating to feature the redesigned 105 front mech which is now similar to DA/Ultegra - low profile so no issues with the arm hitting mudguards, Allen head limit screws, inline cable tension adjuster, and no need to do that fiddly eyeballing of which way the converter pin should be set. Probably the best £30 upgrade you can buy, and compatible with 4700 too.