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Custom WHeel Build suggestions
HI,
I'm looking for some recommendations for which hubs to go for for a custom wheel build? I've bought some H Plus Son Archtype 20 hole rims and I'm aware that narrows down the choice of hubs.
The build is to be rim brake only and going on my Condor Acciaio.
I did buy a 2nd hand pair of Mavic Aksium hubs, but after a little surfing found that they are pretty rubbish, so before I give the wheel builder the go ahead I'm after recommendations. Are Hope really worth the money?
Thanks in advance
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29 comments
Having had a good few sets of hand built wheels I am convinced that spending money on CX Ray spokes is essential for anything but a touring wheel
OP, you really are going the wrong way around this and need to just start again. Have a little think about what kind of riding you do, what kind of rider you are (honest weight inc. any attachments) and what your budget is. Don't try and shoot for the moon.
Then, get in touch with any of the regular wheel builders (DCR is great, but don't rule out the others like Strada, etc). Don't worry too much about spoke count, that will turn up with the options and the advice given.
FWIW, I think the Archetypes are great for winter/training wheels as they have a decent thickness of brake track and take some stick. Yes, the annodising wears off but they look all right when the process has finished. My wheels are built with 24/28 DA9000 hubs and, with CX Ray, come in around 1500g ish and have had 3-4 rebuilds. Cost was about £500, rebuilds are obviously a lot less.
Use the custom build option for its benefits, don't focus on the limitations/risks of trying to get something that may or may not work.
HI, thanks for the info. This is exactly what I'm doing now. I was trying to do things the wrong way around. Covid boredom!! The rims have gone back now and I'm taking a more considered approach.
A lot of wheel builders won't build with parts you supply anyway - there's not much money in actually building the wheel, getting parts wholesale and charging the customer RRP like the shop you would buy from is where they make some more income
I've just ordered my first handbuilt wheels, having finally worn out the Mavics which were supplied on the bike from new. I asked the builder about Hope hubs and the response was very positive (so that's what I'm having) - well made, durable, serviceable, but will be heavier than the Mavics they're replacing. I've been recommended a 24/28 hole front/rear spoke count for my weight (c.78kg), whereas the Mavics I've been riding without incident for 6 years are 19/21 (IIRC). Those are wide, flat bladed spokes though, so presumably the spoke counts are not directly comparable.
Morning, thanks for the feedback.
So what I've managed to read from the comments is that I should change the rims to a larger spoke count, something like a 28, especially for the rear. I'm waiting for the rims to arrive and will send them back and swop for different ones.
As for the choice of rims, they seem to be marmite, especially in hard anodised as I know the rim will wear.
Does anyone have the Archtype rims, are they any good?
Archetype rims are some of the best around their price point.
The anodised surface was a massive disappointment for me and - I'm told - they require higher tension when building (so much so, infact, that a bike shop I won't name damaged a Chris King hub shell tensioning them). Obviously this won't be an issue if you're not on CK hubs....
The Kinlins are supposed to be better... I have set of 23 /28s on R45 Chris King hubs which run fine and take daily hammer.
I've sent the rims back now and I'm going to start again with some consideration as to what I need first. Thanks in again for your help.
It does depend on how much you weigh, how powerful you are, and what sort of riding you will do. I wouldn't want a 20 spoke rear wheel for myself, but that doesn't mean it's out of the question.
https://dcrwheels.co.uk/products/rims/700c-rims/h-plus-son-archetype/ says "H Plus Son have said that a 20:24 lacing on this rim will hold a rider of up to 200lbs or 91kg".
I would start again and speak to David at DCR wheels.
I registered to second the DCR post, I purchased a set a few years ago, Oynx hubs(silient) on DCR carbon rims and they are still like the first day I recieved them. David was also very patient with me when finalising the spec.
I recently has some Hope RS4's built up with H Plus Son Archetypes. 28 front & back and they are utterly bombproof. Such a solid wheel.
I think you might be best upping the spoke count really but that's just an opinion as you might weigh 59kgs and be able to get away with them!
Buy another 24 or 28 hole rim and sell the spare 20 hole one as someone will have it as a front rim.
Bitex are probably the best of hubs coming out of Taiwan. Very reliable, cheap, easily sourced bearings and are part of more wheel sets than you might think. The new Bitex 314 look really good and are £155 the pair.
Nice bike the Accacio....it would ride well with a decent set of wheels, but sadly the 20 spoke H Plus Son in black with Hope 2 pawl hubs are not those wheels. A 20 spoke rear wheel would need a very good hub, expensive spokes and a good wheel-builder to put together.
The irony is that a good wheelbuilder would probably refuse to build them (unless you're sub 60kg and ride at a low wattage). Additionally, the black anodising on the brake rim will wear off quickly and look a mess (if you're on rim brakes).
Harry Rowland has built some very good wheels for me - Mavic Open Pros or Open Pro UST and Kinlins 22ts (which Hope rebrands as its own) if you want a wider rim / tubeless. With Novatec hubs these come in at around £300-350 from recollection - and come in 24s. Better hubs like DT Swiss 240s would cost a bit more...
@chris I think you mean Hunt rebrands Kinlin's as their own rims. A brief google frenzy can find no evidence or rumours that Hope do....
Yes - that's the case. Thanks for pointing that out.
I would say to ask your builder what he recommends, but if he's anything like a decent builder he'll tell you a 20 hole rear wheel is a ridiculous idea and you probably don't want to hear that. I hope he fixes popped spokes for free!
Hi Nick, is that due to not enough rigidity in the build?
The tension required on each spoke to keep the rim still on a count that low will be astronomical, especially on a relatively shallow alloy rim like those. At best you'll have chronic brake rub, at worst you'll be snapping spokes every time you get out the saddle
Thanks for the info, so I should be looking for a 24 hole count or more?
Personally, I'd advise more - like 28 minimum on the rear. But so much depends on rider, type of use etc that you're best off asking your builder for their input. You're paying them to build your wheels, this expertise is what you're actually paying for - actually assembling wheels is piss easy, knowing what wheel to build is where their experience comes to fruit and earns their money
To my mind this is a slightly outdated point of view...sure, crap rims (i.e. not H Plus Son Archetypes), crap spokes and crap hubs would lead to a crap wheel, but conversely Campag Zondas have a 21-spoke triplet laced rear wheel, and I don't hear any comments about those being flexy wheels.
Campagnolo 2:1 spoke lacing has 14 driveside spokes, 7 non drive side. Non driveside spokes require a very little tension to do their job, so you don't actually need an equal number on each side - result is 21 spoke G3 lacing being broadly equivalent to a 28h rim, hence the lack of flex. Zonda have a relatively deep rim, wide hub flanges and have had a heap of r&d chucked at the lot working as a system. Campag don't really do shallow rims any more, but their old Hyperons and Neutrons had a more typical lacing pattern.
Spokes weigh very little, like 5-10g, and cutting to low counts typically means using heavier gauges anyway
Hmm...I might be slightly lying about the colour options, I think 20h rear is only available in black.
Hope are pretty good, but their reputation for making reasonably priced bomb proof kit is slightly outdated to my mind... Their stuff isn't as good as it used to be in my opinion. I'm not massively sold on their 2-pawl free hubs, but that's probably just me liking things to be over engineered.
If you want a really decent and cheap hubset though, I'd go with Bitex. They're lighter than Hope, and very well made for the price. Bearing sizes are all standard so you'll be able to source decent bearings at a good price in the future, and the j bend hubs come in a range of colours.
Thanks for the info, I'll take a look.
How strong are the freewheels in the Bitex hubs? I have broken 2 on my gravel bike despite being as low powered as a watch battery. The OEM Fulcrum Racing Sport DB (which are unpopular for many reasons) and a ProBuild AlexRims / Chosen hub which I bought in a hurry to get back on the road. It's like underpants - one on, one in the drawer.
So I am quite interested in whose rear hubs are a bit more durable.
Not something I've heard much about. My daily grind/winter/commuter wheels are built on rebadged Bitex hubs and I've never had any issues from them. Maybe you've just been unlucky.