[hawkinspeter]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/through-traffic-banned-parts-bristol-8295492

This should be introduced towards the end of this year as an experimental trial – I wish it could happen sooner as it covers where I live. We had questionnaires about it during lockdown, though I think that was just about making Beaufort Rd (by the cemetery) one way to motorised traffic.

Topic

[andystow]

Geometric works.

Geometric works.

I’d also allow backing off one level for every year with no offences. Ideally, you could have a transponder in your car that would automatically emit a nice old-fashioned cash register * ka-ching! * every time you got a fine, in real time.

[Rendel Harris]

Pedantically, I think you

Pedantically, I think you mean exponential fines. Not at all a bad idea but I wouldn’t want to start at £1, that would probably mean for too many people running the gate when they were in a hurry thinking it’s only going to cost them a quid or two. But doubling for every offence starting from a decent level, say £50, would be a great idea.

[hawkinspeter]

slc wrote:

Or can’t afford to change their habits in general e.g a care worker that has to travel to several locations in day at prescribed times vs their area manager.

I thought that care-workers could apply to be exempt from the bus gate charges?

Edit: From https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/parking/parking-fines-bus-lane-fines-and-towed-away/bus-gates/east-bristol-liveable-neighbourhood-bus-gates

• Professional carers who work in homes of people who live within the East Bristol Liveable Neighbourhood area, you’ll need to apply below for this exemption.
• Residents of the East Bristol Liveable Neighbourhood area who are on a low income, who meet the eligibility criteria and need to drive to work.

[hawkinspeter]

Rendel Harris wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I think the issue is more that poor people can’t afford to be fined for driving through bus gates.

If anyone could think of a way that one could avoid being fined for driving through bus gates…no, seems an insurmountable problem…

Slightly more seriously, I do think that there ought to be scope for licence points for regular offenders to prevent the very rich from simply ignoring the regulations and paying the fines, something one sees quite a lot in Belgravia, Kensington etc. 

I doubt that the number of very rich drivers going through Barton Hill is going to be much of an issue.

[slc]

Rendel Harris wrote:

Slightly more seriously, I do think that there ought to be scope for licence points for regular offenders to prevent the very rich from simply ignoring the regulations and paying the fines, something one sees quite a lot in Belgravia, Kensington etc. 

 

My solution is geometric fines (£1 on the first offence, then £2,£4, …). Richer people might not learn their lesson so quickly, but they will learn.

 

[slc]

hawkinspeter wrote:

ktache wrote:

Are the poor not allowed on buses?

I think the issue is more that poor people can’t afford to be fined for driving through bus gates.

Or can’t afford to change their habits in general e.g a care worker that has to travel to several locations in day at prescribed times vs their area manager.

[chrisonabike]

Rendel Harris wrote:

Rendel Harris wrote:

Slightly more seriously, I do think that there ought to be scope for licence points for regular offenders to prevent the very rich from simply ignoring the regulations and paying the fines, something one sees quite a lot in Belgravia, Kensington etc. 

Agree … but of course this also costs money … plus the very rich can simply swap vehicles – or drivers!

“Fairness” is actually a big problem *.  Everybody except the very poorest in the UK is relatively quite wealthy in global terms (being able to afford a car – or even a motorbike – is doing pretty well).  But of course this country is also relatively expensive and they’re still locally relatively poor.  And an awful lot poorer than – say – the top 5%.  So we have lots of people who are “feeling the pinch” but also causing problems of overconsumption / pollution.  And who are apt to be very touchy about control measures using e.g. financial penalties that the wealthy can laugh off…

*  Nothing new of course – ambition / the aspirational treadmill has been the source of tragic plot lines since the earliest stories.

[Rendel Harris]

hawkinspeter wrote:

I think the issue is more that poor people can’t afford to be fined for driving through bus gates.

If anyone could think of a way that one could avoid being fined for driving through bus gates…no, seems an insurmountable problem…

Slightly more seriously, I do think that there ought to be scope for licence points for regular offenders to prevent the very rich from simply ignoring the regulations and paying the fines, something one sees quite a lot in Belgravia, Kensington etc. 

[hawkinspeter]

ktache wrote:

Are the poor not allowed on buses?

I think the issue is more that poor people can’t afford to be fined for driving through bus gates.

[ktache]

Are the poor not allowed on

Are the poor not allowed on buses?

[hawkinspeter]

chrisonabike wrote:

Is that a photo-bombing banksy there?

Yes, but the Banksy was there first – that’s why there’s the fences around it to stop people trying to vandalise it (too late).

The original Banksy looked like this:

Then it got a plastic covering over it to protect it, which was then replaced by a wooden covering and then it was later updated (by Banksy?) with a masked man trying to pry off the covering:

[chrisonabike]

Is that a photo-bombing

Is that a photo-bombing banksy there?

[hawkinspeter]

slc wrote:

This morning the Avonvale Rd bus gate signs had been sprayed painted to read ‘no poor people allowed’. 

That’s been picked up the BristolPost now:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/new-bus-gate-signs-barton-10224123

And someone’s vandalised the vandalism:

[chrisonabike]

slc wrote:

slc wrote:

This morning the Avonvale Rd bus gate signs had been sprayed painted to read ‘no poor people allowed’.

Very common kind of tagging – some of the planters locally * saw similar.

Is the social reality such that the closer to the bottom the greater your need for a car to show you’re getting ahead (even if only driving to anti-social poorly paid work) and the greater your disdain for buses ‘cos that’s where the bus-pass mob go?

* On roads which really don’t make sense as through routes – other than “because we can” or “because we think it might save about a minute against the main road if busy”.

[slc]

hawkinspeter wrote:

slc wrote:

Bus gates to go live from 2nd June. ..

Wait for it… wait for it…

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/liveable-neighbourhood-bus-gates-switched-soon/

 

This morning the Avonvale Rd bus gate signs had been sprayed painted to read ‘no poor people allowed’. 

 

[Author]

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