[David9694]

A new catch-all Tea Shop thread for those miscellaneous new stories that don’t quite fit with parking, crashing into buildings or trapped/prisoners in their homes. 

Topic

[Rendel Harris]

stonojnr wrote:

and funnily enough wasnt Constables paintings all about the industrial revolution & industrial landscapes of the time.

Very much not, no. Think you may be thinking of Turner; Constable’s work was very much about presenting a romantic version of the bucolic English countryside untouched by the industrial revolution.

[stonojnr]

the picture is of the secure

the picture is of the secure cycle park compound,which are invaribly only used by commuters on the train as the £25 annual charge tends to put irregular visitors off, so yes there will be times when its empty, just like the car park, though its a brave soul who rides along the A137 to get there.

I do remember back in the 80s, the car park was a fraction of the size, it was just half of the lower level bit along the line towards London, and the rest of it was like a muddy field/railway engineering works layover area.

they cut the trees back & down well before they extended the car park as the leaves used to end up on the line. alot of tree clearing was done around 2004, they actually built a temporary standing space for coaches and cars north side of the station as the line was blocked for months due to work at Ipswich and there wasnt enough space in the old car park.

dont remember much about where the multi storey was, maybe some trees and a path, there wasnt anything remotely nice to look at for sure, but its been there for years now.

and yes they do need the car spaces because whats tended to happen is people dumped their cars in the surrounding area instead.

https://www.harwichandmanningtreestandard.co.uk/news/1983618.cars-to-be-banned/

whilst buses are a nice idea, theyll never serve the station frequently enough and the gaps between the major nearby towns are too long for a viable service

really I think theyre just complaining because they like to walk their dogs and pretend to be countryside dwellers, instead of just folk who moved out from posh bits of London, note they like to claim to be Dedham Vale supporters, well the Dedham vale follows the River Stour from the estuary, thats to the North of the station, and the opposite side of the railway to the car park, you cant see the river from the car park at all,and I bet the lights from Harwich & Felixstowe docks light up the area far more than those in the car park.

and funnily enough wasnt Constables paintings all about the industrial revolution & industrial landscapes of the time.

[stonojnr]

they did a thing over 10

they did a thing over 10 years back called Bike & Go, that were hire bikes akin to Boris bikes, just alot heavier for some daft reason and the hiring system was way more convoluted, so you couldnt just Bike & Go.

and the ones at Manningtree Station sat there on the platform, where the very small insecure bike shed used to be, for years and years, never saw them move, became homes for lots of spiders, and eventually they quitely dropped it.

[Bungle_52]

I can’t comment on this

I can’t comment on this particular design but it seems to me the HC is pretty clear on roundabouts.

Rule 187

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to

    pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads

I read this as pedestrians have priority at entry and exit of a roundabout. Like you I exercise this priority with caution but I do exercise it wherever possible.

[Cycle Happy]

ktache wrote:

ktache wrote:

Pedestrians always have priority at junctions. Not that you’d know it. And it has to be an improvement on what was there. And it’s not that paintings of zebras have un unblemished safety record. Or light controlled pelicans.

The problem for me with this layout is where are the junctions? My understanding of rule H2 is that pedestrians do not have priority at the exits of the roundabouts (if these still are roundabouts) as they do at junctions. I believe junctions (T junctions and alike) are covered by Rule 170 under the section “Junctions” and roundabouts are covered by Rule 187 under the section for”Roundabouts”. So for that reason, what are junctions, what are roundabouts and what are zebras need to be very clear. I wouldn’t trust cars to stop, but at least I’d be able to make informed assessments when to cross from any (most likely unsignalled) visual cues offered by road position, speed etc.

[chrisonabike]

BBC reheats the “roundabout

EDIT – Cycle Happy got there first!

BBC reheats the “roundabout with painted designs” story (featured on road.cc a while back)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gpv96lyp4o

One where the original infra was a bit odd but the changes in no way will alter the motor domination of the area or make it safer for vulnerable road users.

It looks like another one brought by the “shared space” bright idea fairy *.  Or “looks really cool in the visualisation, and comes in under 100k – we can do it!”

* Shared space is not a good move in theory or in practice.  (Won’t you think about those with disablities or visual impairments?  Not when there are motor vehicles involved apparently.)  The idea seems to be “confuse motorists a bit, that makes everyone safer” because “that means everyone will be visually ‘negotiating’ while using the space”.

Firstly confused or uncertain people aren’t safer drivers.  The principal fails in any case once you realise that cyclists and pedestrians don’t possess a massive metal exoskeleton.  All that happens in practice is that if there are more than a handful of drivers the space ends up dominated by motorists as usual.  And probably there are more crashes not less because people are confused (David Hembrow has covered this extensively e.g. here).

[ktache]

Pedestrians always have

Pedestrians always have priority at junctions. Not that you’d know it. And it has to be an improvement on what was there. And it’s not that paintings of zebras have un unblemished safety record. Or light controlled pelicans. It might work, you have to try these things, and given it’s location, Wokingham is one town over from crowthorne, home of the Transport Research Laboratory, many things are trialed in the area. I think one of my first experiences of using a quality separated cycle lanes was coming out of crowthorne, still use it if schlepping from crowthorne station to Swinley Forrest. Still good, apart from the grey, primarily driver orientated, signposts in the path, and the Concealed Entrances warnings as you come out of the village.

[chrisonabike]

David9694 wrote:

Manningree station: Manningtree car park expansion campaigners celebrate victory

I’ll have to find an hour or so to go through that… good work.

Abellio are a Dutch company but have multinational operations – I assume they’ll just work with “what’s there” and if that’s driving to the station so be it.

When they had the Scotrail franchise for a bit they did at least try to bring a version of the Dutch “OV Fiets” system e.g. public hire bikes operating from train stations *.  I can’t say I used the railways often AND widely enough at that time to form an opinion on their service in general.

* Actually a excellent idea – but definitely “too soon” for Scotland.  Closed after about 5 years.  Fundamentally the often scarce public transport services and lack of “mass cycling” (main barrier – lack of suitable cycle infra) meant this was going to be tricky.  Especially for fully “Dutch bikes” – e.g. very practical but heavy.

Also they only had a handful of stations (only one in Edinburgh!) and in fact not many bikes either – so always appeared more of a trial or even possibly “awareness raising”?  Although complaining it was “not self-sufficient” is perhaps beside the point.  I’m not sure that the Dutch version is self-sustaining BUT I suspect it makes using the railways more attractive, and indeed more so than driving in some cases (expands the destination station “easily reached” area.  And in some cases the catchment area at both ends.)

[Cycle Happy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gpv96lyp4o

In my opinion, downright dangerous for all users whether in/on a vehicle or foot. I don’t know how liabilities in the event of incidents would be resolved either as surely these markings, or lack of, are not legally enforceable?

[David9694]

Manningree station car park

Manningree station: Manningtree car park expansion campaigners celebrate victory

This story is at the fringes of our usual scope, but as always the question is how much space do we turn over to cars, where does it end?  View the growth of the parking from 2000 onwards on Google Earth: one more bay will fix it. 

In this instance how about we have a bus say every 15 minutes to this station, rather than every 1.5 hours (Sunday? LOL), rather than all this parking and decking. But that’s not what the Abellio Greater Anglia and the Dedham Vale Society are about.  

There’s a bike shed mixed up in here too, and Labour channelling its inner Liz Truss this week and saying that they’re into growth and aren’t things like protecting the environment, e.g. with JRs, terrible and something should be done. 

Part of what got me interested was this: ‘A Greater Anglia spokesperson said: “As an interested party and not the defendant, Greater Anglia acknowledges the outcome of this judicial review.”‘ which is a bit rich set against their trumpeting this back in spring 2020 when it opened (link below) and continuing to operate it today.  I’ve not seen any explanation for the wall – much of the area tarmaced over was a pond before, say ye olde mappes, maybe that’s why? 

It’s mainly the rusty wall that surrounds the car park that is the focus of the story, but in their crowd funder (extract below), somehow the cycling provision becomes part of the problem. Nice night-time picture there, guys, when everyone has gone home. Plenty of pictures of the car park show it empty. 

It seems that the latest car park extension was built in 2019 ostensibly under Permitted Development rights, i.e. no specific permission (“planning permission”) to develop was required.  The Council served an Enforcement Notice in February 2024. Abellio East Anglia Limited appealed the notice in April.

Now, dear readers I’ve dug around a bit more, revised this bit of the narrative and added a couple more links and a long extract at the end from are documents I didn’t initially think were “it”. 

This is the point at issue: to be active, PD (permitted development) depends on whether or not an environmental impact assessment is required, and if so is it in place – none is. The council thought an EIA was required, the inspector, without actually completing the appeal case, said it wasn’t, so the Council withdrew the enforcement notice, as there were now no grounds for it. 

The news today is that the SoS has decided she couldn’t defend the challenge that the planning inspector had not, in arriving at that decision, taken into account a duty of conserving and enhancing the natural beauty of the area – not quite settled on the steps of the court, but getting close to it. 

The decision has to be taken again and I guess no foul-ups this time. That’s not to say it couldn’t come out the same, so I wouldn’t count my Haywain chickens yet. I’d have thought the removal or screening of the metal wall (Nature would be taking its course by now) as the council have been discussing, and some better treatment of the lighting will resolve this.

Conservationists win fight over station car park

A judicial review was due to be heard in February, but the government has now conceded the decision has been quashed, and must now be reconsidered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgxzyk74dlo

Over 220 additional car parking spaces now available at Manningtree rail station -2020 

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/news-desk/news-articles/over-220-additional-car-parking-spaces-now-available-manningtree

Car park ‘scenery blight’ case to go to High Court

“There was no error,” the [Greater Anglia] spokesperson said, and the Secretary of State made the right decision.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5v8gj4xyo

Manningtree station’s ‘Berlin Wall’ set to be removed

“…we [Tendring District Council] are telling the operators that the car park needs to be returned to how it was before the development and are giving them nine months to do so – accepting that there may be an appeal which would pause this deadline.”

https://www.harwichandmanningtreestandard.co.uk/news/24201682.manningtree-stations-berlin-wall-set-removed/

There was an appeal against this enforcement notice, and the Notice was withdrawn; I found that trying to find the inspectorate decision that is now being re-taken.

Essex car park to be test case for legislation to protect landscapes

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/31/essex-car-park-legislation-protect-landscapes-dedham-vale-manningtree-station

Manningtree car park expansion campaigners celebrate victory

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/24900257.manningtree-car-park-expansion-campaigners-celebrate-victory/

Dedham Vale Society fighting fund

The Dedham Vale Society accepted the need for more car parking at Manningtree station but asked that Greater Anglia submit a planning application so the effects on the landscape could be properly considered and reduced.  

Instead, Greater Anglia went ahead without planning consent, removed trees, scrub and an old stables and built an unscreened steel “Berlin Wall” more than 200 yards long, together with two-storey car parks and bike parks that emit more light pollution than the whole nearby town of Manningtree.  The view of the wall compromises enjoyment of the St Edmund Way pilgrimage footpath into the vale and the lighting affects the proposed dark sky status of the whole National Landscape. That is the view also of the National Landscape team who work for the four local authorities involved.

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/dedham-vale-society-fighting-fund

Welcome to National Landscapes – the new name for the UK’s designated Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty. The Dedham Vale National Landscape sits along the Suffolk-Essex border and was designated in 1970 with the purpose of conserving and enhancing the habitats and biodiversity.

Home

bus services

https://bustimes.org/stops/1500MANN1?date=2025-02-03

withdrawal of enforcement notice : Tendring DC 

https://tdcdemocracy.tendringdc.gov.uk/documents/s68213/Delegated%20report%20-%20withdrawal%20of%20Enforcement%20Notice%20-%20Manningtree%20Station.pdf

Article 3(10) provides that “Schedule 2 development” (within the meaning of the Town and Country Planning (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2017) is not permitted by the Order unless a negative screening opinion has been issued by the local planning authority or the Secretary of State has made a screening direction that the development is not ElA development.

No such screening opinion or screening direction had been issued in respect of the works to create the car park at the time that the enforcement notice was served.

Article 3(11)(a) provides that development is to be treated as being not permitted by the Order where the local planning authority has adopted a screening opinion that the development is ElA development, and the Secretary of State has not made a screening direction to the contrary. At the time that the enforcement notice was served, the Council had adopted a screening opinion that the works were ElA development and the Secretary of State had not made a screening direction to the contrary.

However, since the service of the enforcement notice and the making of an appeal against it by Greater Anglia, the Secretary of State has on 29 May 2024 made a screening direction that the works are not ElA development (i.e. contrary to the Council’s position).

Had this screening direction been obtained by Greater Anglia prior to the carrying out of the works that are the subject of the enforcement notice, there would have been no question that the works were ‘permitted development’ and a breach of planning control would not have arisen.

planning inspectorate – case never fully heard https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/ViewCase.aspx?Caseid=3341697&CoID=0

Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023, section 245 (6)

“In exercising or performing any functions in relation to, or so as to affect, land in an area of outstanding natural beauty in England, a relevant authority […] must seek to further the purpose of conserving and enhancing the natural beauty of the area of outstanding natural beauty.” 

That became law in December 2023; the guidance came out in December 2024:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-protected-landscapes-duty/guidance-for-relevant-authorities-on-seeking-to-further-the-purposes-of-protected-landscapes

The Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 is amended by the 2023 Act  and it is confirmed in Section 85(2) that a Minister of the Crown (i.e. the planning inspector) is a “relevant authority” and is subject to the duty to conserve and enhance. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/37/section/85

Manningtree station car park extension found to be ‘unauthorised’

2nd February 2022

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19890980.manningtree-station-car-park-extension-found-unauthorised/

Council considering plans to soften Manningtree station’s controversial metal wall

Climbing plants have been proposed to make a controversial metal wall ‘softer’

https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/council-wants-manningtree-stations-controversial-9008725

picture is from the Dedham Vale crowdfunder page, described as “empty”

[David9694]

Hi all I’m looking for advice

Hi all I’m looking for advice on what constitutes vigilantism (and what doesn’t) and whether you get called “pedo” etc if you practise it. 

Video – watch the white car ahead from about 20″.  BTL Comments – if you can’t spell then you’re on the brave taxi man’s side,  for “standing up for the homeless” and young people today etc. 

Taxi driver filmed trying to ‘run over’ teens says ‘I would do it again’

The teens had to leap out the way as the taxi driver accelerated towards them

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/taxi-driver-who-drove-teens-9911873?int_source=nba

Taxi driver who ‘drove at teens’ called a hero as wife says ‘I’m proud’

Stephen Rowe whose actions were caught on camera said he would do it again if he had to

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/taxi-driver-filmed-trying-run-9909800?int_source=nba

PS A page to watch in the coming weeks:  https://democracy.cornwall.gov.uk/ieListMeetings.aspx?CommitteeId=955

[pockstone]

Tried to like this and got

Tried to like this and got ‘threaded ‘ comments instead.

[ktache]

I have unliked and then had

I have unliked and then had to relike this comment so many times as I attempt to select Newest from the dropdown.

And then it doesn’t appear anywhere near the comment I was commenting on!!

[David9694]

mildly interesting story –

mildly interesting story – the operator of this site think there’s more to be made from having Starbucks than the parking spaces that would be lost.  Drivers seem to have no comprehension of this. 

Parking fears over plan for Starbucks drive-thru at Ashford Retail Park next to The Food Warehouse

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/we-need-parking-spaces-not-another-new-coffee-shop-319298/

[stonojnr]

“Chaotic road needs speed

“Chaotic road needs speed limit trial – police boss says” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gz3n8175mo

article earlier in the week reported 687 motorists were caught travelling at more than 100mph between 2019-2023 largely on the same road, and this article says between October and December last year the police caught 4,368 drivers speeding

so how about just trialing enforcing the current speed limits. ?

[Author]

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