Dropping a wad cash on a bike you’ve not even seen….

Zermattjohn wrote:

Thanks everyone for your advice. It’s not just about the sizing though, it’s also the build/quality/etc.

I’ve seen plenty of bikes that look great on Evans (for eg) website but up close the paint job, the oddly cobbled-together cable routing (a zip tie on a £3k bike..?), the real weight of your particular size, the way it rides, etc means I don’t want to part with my hard-earned. It’s this type of thing I’m more concerned about – I know I can get the right size, but I’m still left with a fear that when I pull it from the box I think it’s not up to scratch, or on the first ride I think “Oh oh!”.

So, is it just a leap of faith? Other than finding someone I know who has the same bike so I can at least look at the thing it seems I’m just relying on the images that the manufacturer has no doubt paid a lot of money to make look absolutely amazing.

At least for the Grail, quality wise I can put your mind at rest:  everything’s good, I’ve had no problems whatsoever over 11 months of hard use (700 km/month average).  Except of course for consumables:  chain has been exchanged once, come january I’ll change it again and put a new cassette on.  Oh, and the protective stickers need replacing, where they descend they sometimes ‘rub’ a bit against the handlebars.  There’s a sticker placed on the spot in question but I needed to replace it, else it’ll start chafing the carbon.  Weight was spot on, no cheating by Canyon in that respect (nor with their other models from what I’ve heard).

Finish etc is uniformly good but nothing special.  Don’t expect vibrant, sparkling paint.  It’s a German brand, function over esthetics etc.

Reading what you wrote, maybe it’d be best for you to walk in a shop and purchase a bike that you see displayed there.  You can never be 100% certain that what you get will be identical to the display model or the pics in every tiny aspect. 

longassballs wrote:

longassballs wrote:

Like already said 50% is you; whether you know what size/geometry of bike you’re comfortable with. The other half is trusting the company. At least with Giant and Orbea I assume you will have a dealer somewhere near you. I have a Grail. I love the bike, and after 2000km have grown indifferent to the bars, and sometimes when riding I even forget about them! The bar concept doesn’t work. It’s completely the opposite of what you want. Normal bars are more compliant the further away from the stem you get, the Grail bars are stiff in the drops and hoods – exactly where your hands will be on the brakes when it gets rough. On the tops it is comfy but it’s generally an unnatural position to place your hands. It’s also irritating to find lights that fit and where to place a bell. If it had normal bars it would be the perfect bike. The Schwalbe tyres compensate for the stiff bars. They are fantastic in all conditions apart from mud. I’ve had them down to 20psi – caution going up or down steps that low though. I generally ride 25-30psi depending on terrain and it is so comfy. The ride was disconcerting for the first month or so as I had been used to the agility of a cx bike. I compare the Grail to a cruise ship – unstoppable in a straight line but a bit of a tank to turn. However I appreciate it now as a steady & reliable ride over longer distances that would be uncomfy on a cx bike. This is probably true of most gravel bikes though. I’m glad I went with a double chainset, however the grx lower gearing will definitely be an improvement because the compact 50/34 chainset is not the same as on a road bike because of the larger circumference tyres. I did have quite a few problems with faulty Grail bars too detailed here https://road.cc/content/forum/246940-canyon-grail-2019 and https://road.cc/content/forum/262951-opinion-damage Make your own mind up about Canyon after reading those threads. They will sort most problems out but it will take a long time. After all my problems would I buy from Canyon again? Probably. Would I buy the Grail now knowing what I know? Probably not. I’d want normal bars, and a more utilitarian frame with bosses for racks and maybe a third bottle cage.

Have to say, I’m not convinced by the benefits of the bars either.  As you say, they work on the tops but practically speaking you can hardly ever use them (I guess that cruising down a long, straight path it would work but there are few such paths where I am).  Together with the difficulties in finding stuff that mounts well  and the limitations in terms of adjustment you need to accept a lot of drawbacks for very little gains.  If I could change one thing, I’d like it to be a bit more aggressive and nimble, more like a Scott addict 10 (grail prixe x 2…).  But overall I’m happy, put broad tires under it at low pressure and you’re golden for long days in the saddle.  I’ll probably ride it another year, maybe 2, then flog it and get something more aggressive.

Like already said 50% is you;
Like already said 50% is you; whether you know what size/geometry of bike you’re comfortable with. The other half is trusting the company. At least with Giant and Orbea I assume you will have a dealer somewhere near you.

I have a Grail. I love the bike, and after 2000km have grown indifferent to the bars, and sometimes when riding I even forget about them! The bar concept doesn’t work. It’s completely the opposite of what you want. Normal bars are more compliant the further away from the stem you get, the Grail bars are stiff in the drops and hoods – exactly where your hands will be on the brakes when it gets rough. On the tops it is comfy but it’s generally an unnatural position to place your hands. It’s also irritating to find lights that fit and where to place a bell. If it had normal bars it would be the perfect bike. The Schwalbe tyres compensate for the stiff bars. They are fantastic in all conditions apart from mud. I’ve had them down to 20psi – caution going up or down steps that low though. I generally ride 25-30psi depending on terrain and it is so comfy.

The ride was disconcerting for the first month or so as I had been used to the agility of a cx bike. I compare the Grail to a cruise ship – unstoppable in a straight line but a bit of a tank to turn. However I appreciate it now as a steady & reliable ride over longer distances that would be uncomfy on a cx bike. This is probably true of most gravel bikes though. I’m glad I went with a double chainset, however the grx lower gearing will definitely be an improvement because the compact 50/34 chainset is not the same as on a road bike because of the larger circumference tyres.

I did have quite a few problems with faulty Grail bars too detailed here https://road.cc/content/forum/246940-canyon-grail-2019 and https://road.cc/content/forum/262951-opinion-damage

Make your own mind up about Canyon after reading those threads. They will sort most problems out but it will take a long time. After all my problems would I buy from Canyon again? Probably. Would I buy the Grail now knowing what I know? Probably not. I’d want normal bars, and a more utilitarian frame with bosses for racks and maybe a third bottle cage.

I spent 6k on my Specialized

I spent 6k on my Specialized Tarmac without ever seeing it or ever riding a tarmac. I also own a Specialized Roubaix and many Specialized bikes in the past. I was confident that it would ride really well so just went for it. I’m about 1000 miles into the bike now and have no regrets. Its now safely tucked up for winter however…..

Have bought 4 bikes from
Have bought 4 bikes from Planet X all trouble free, delighted actually, and have never spoken to a Canyon buyer who was disappointed. Actually, can’t say the same for some bike shops . . . .

Xenophon2 wrote:

chocim:  Canyon clearly state -at least for Belgium- that they’ll only accept cost-free returns for unused bikes.  Indeed, you can ship it back later but it will cost you a variable amount, depending on the degree of use.  I don’t know if they dropped that in your wife’s case because she purchased another model.  And you can’t exactly slip a 90x180X20 cm package in the letterbox so that means waiting for a courier and taking the day off.  I’m happy with my Canyon Grail, great bike.  But I found Canyon’s customer service essentially clueless, though their maintenance center (located 30 km from where I am) are good.

Canyon collected the bike free of charge and the second bike was only purchased later, so we didn’t pay a cent and Canyon returned 100% of the price. This was in Poland, policies may vary. Courier, yes, of course, the same goes for ordering a bike online even if you don’t return it. Customer service clueless – I’ll grant you that, they managed to mislay the refund so it was two weeks late…