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Canyon Grail 2019

Canyon have updated their Grail range already but across the range the bikes are all 200g heavier. I can't seem to work out why. What am I missing?

I'm comparing between old & new 105 and Ultegra models. Sram is new for 2019. All the spec looks the same with the exception of tan walled Schwalbes. Have they changed the frame, or even their famed 'hover bar'?

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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Huckfinn | 4 years ago
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Received my Grail C.F SL 8.0 about a week ago and did so far about 120km.

The coolest bike around, at least aesthetically.

I'd like some advice, if possible, from Grail owners:

-Possible to swap the 11/34 for an 11/36 cassette? (think yes, but just to be sure..)

-Would it take a WTB Riddler 700/45 tyre? (which is apparently 44mm wide)

-What if I get an extra spacer for the handlebar: would I be able to stick it in?

-What kind of support for a Garmin or similar GPS can one install?

 

Thanks!

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Xenophon2 replied to Huckfinn | 4 years ago
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Huckfinn wrote:

 

I'd like some advice, if possible, from Grail owners:

-Possible to swap the 11/34 for an 11/36 cassette? (think yes, but just to be sure..)

-Would it take a WTB Riddler 700/45 tyre? (which is apparently 44mm wide)

-What if I get an extra spacer for the handlebar: would I be able to stick it in?

-What kind of support for a Garmin or similar GPS can one install?

 

Thanks!

Yes.

If it measures 44 mm on your rim, it'll work.  The Grail's rated for 42 mm max but 44 mm will fit for sure and I think that even 48 mm in 700c would just fit but with very little place to spare so try it at your own risk.

Afaik, no.  You can remove spacers, not add.  This is one of the serious drawbacks of their cockpit.

Garmin outfront mount, works like a charm, I have an Edge 1030 mounted on it.   Other mounts will be a painful affair due to the handlebar shape.  Wouldn't recommend it.

 

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Xenophon2 | 4 years ago
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@longassballs:

I've got about 1600 km (1k miles) on it now, use it also for my daily commute.  First impression is good, you get a lot of bike for the cash with Canyon, easily 500-1000 euro more than with the other brands imho.

First about the cockpit and the double-decker handle bar.  Good news is that it works...sort of.  It does dampen vibration and road buzz but only when riding on the tops, which (for me) is only about 5% of the time, if that.  Trouble is that you don't have ready access to the brakes and less control.  I can imagine it would make a real difference on the sort of gravel they have in the States, with long stretches of washboard without major bumps/potholes and not too much traffic.  The dampening effect pales in comparison with the dampening that you get from the seatpost (excellent) and what you get from judicious adjustment of tyre pressure though.  Frankly, I'm not convinced that the marginal gains of the hover bar compensate for the severe limitiations it imposes (zero adjustability, impossible to pick your own components etc).  I could be wrong but I don't think Canyon will continue for very long with it.  They should also tidy up the cable routing a bit.

The frame geometry is a bit of a mixed bag:  I found it to be very stiff and road-bike oriented but a bit less sharp handling, which can be either a very good (holds its line very well, extremely stable) or a bad thing if you like a sprightly bike.  It's essentially an endurance bike in its ride behaviour but almost a race bike in its geometry and stiffness (and also, should you fit 28 mm tyres, in the way it transfers shocks).  The ride behaviour might have something to do with the tyres too, I've got the stock Schwalbes under it, going to swap them out for the Compass Barlow Pass.  The Schwalbes are good but I don't like the noise they make at speed on tarmac and have the feeling they somehow make the bike more unwieldy.

The only other bike I can usefully compare it to  would be the Scott addict gravel 10.  Stiffness-wise it's about the same (which is saying something) but the Scott handles more aggressively/lively, to the point that it becomes too much of a good thing on trails.  The Scott also costs 6K Euro compared to the 2.8 k of the Grail (or the 4k for the CF 8SLX in 1x), huge hat tip to Canyon for that.  I'd guess that the Scott addict 20 comes closer, price-wise but I haven't ridden it.

So, would I purchase the Grail again?  Probably yes, firstly because the size M fits my 1.82 m frame very well and second because it's almost impossible to beat, value-wise.  I think the Grail's a good bike if you mainly ride tarmac (potholed or not) and like relaxed handling.  For hardcore trail/off road riders I think it's too much road bike, for speed freaks who like riding on the edge it's too lazy.  Were it not for the 3k price difference, I'd probably go with the Scott addict 10.  If you want to stay with Canyon and don't absolutely need the possibility to mount mudguards/luggage nor tyres >33mm then perhaps the Inflite could be a good alternative.

 

 

 

 

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longassballs | 4 years ago
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Grail was delivered finally on Tuesday. Scratched/damaged around the lip where the top cap fastens down on the stem part of the cockpit.

Messaged Canyon immediately before I even finished unpacking. They offered me £35 compensation, or £45 in their online shop. Refused saying I either wanted them to collect the bike to fit a new cockpit or a replacement bike. Helpfully Canyon replied that they would exchange my bike - by giving me a full refund and then advising me to purchase a different model of Grail or an Inflite as the model I had wouldn't be available until July. In other words give me my money back then order a bike as a new customer!

Originally ordered the bike in Sept 18 for delivery in Jan. I would now be last in the queue behind the guy who ordered 1 minute ago who hasn't even paid yet.

I await their next reply

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brettoau | 5 years ago
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I got sick of the constant delays and cancelled my Grail order. 

Now seriously looking at the Giant Revolt Advanced 0 2019 which is in stock at my local dealer. Then I would put some compass 700x44c tyres on it - https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/700c/compass-700c-x-4...

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longassballs | 5 years ago
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How's the ride?

Getting serious second thoughts, especially after the cx worlds at a weekend. Would an Inflite be enough bike for me? I really don't know

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Xenophon2 | 5 years ago
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Yay, received the bike last friday!  All good, assembly was easy but I'd recommend taking a look at their Youtube vid of 'Grail unboxing' rather than reading their brick of a manual that's not model specific (good luck with finding out how to tension the seatpost reading their bible).  Happy to say that their sizing tool is spot on, I was worried that a size M would be too small for my 182 cm but it's actually perfect.  Will post a review once the new toy syndrome has worn off.

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brettoau | 5 years ago
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Ordered mid August as soon as the 2019 models went on sale for a mid Nov delivery. Delayed 3 times already with the estimated dates just passing with no contact. CC was finally billed so I thought it must be close to shipping, but now estimated date has gone out to mid March... Not keen on the giant revolt, so may just buy a new road bike instead.

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Xenophon2 replied to brettoau | 5 years ago
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brettoau wrote:

Ordered mid August as soon as the 2019 models went on sale for a mid Nov delivery. Delayed 3 times already with the estimated dates just passing with no contact. CC was finally billed so I thought it must be close to shipping, but now estimated date has gone out to mid March... Not keen on the giant revolt, so may just buy a new road bike instead.

 

Shockingly bad customer service and communication.  At the very least they owe you an explanation and an apology.  Were I in your shoes, I'd probably have cancelled by now.  I'm sure it's a very fine bike (well, I have one on order after all) but some of the competition I'm sure are also fine and have the benefit of being available right now, not as last year's model at this year's price.  We'll see how it goes but if I catch even the whiff of a possibility of delays that would mean I won't have it by spring, cancel the order I will, then I'll don the hair shirt, put ashes on my head and trek to my local bike pusher for relief.

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longassballs | 5 years ago
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Yet again Canyon has no idea about their own mudguards and recommend clip-on guards as a temporary solution... for a bike out for a year with mounts. I still can't get over how odd this is.

Oh and I found the little check your order tool on their site. Surprise surprise delivery slipped from Jan to March. Not the worst thing in the world but funny that I had heard nothing from them, until 30 mins after I searched myself, I got an email from them telling me about the delay haha

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longassballs | 5 years ago
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So I broke Canyon's inside leg measuring arm at their showroom in Koblenz haha. I pushed it down at the end of the lever instead of closer to the fulcrum shearing the threads from four bolts. It was more embarrassing standing there while they insisted on trying to fix it by just attempting to screw the bolts back in, which was clearly never gonna work. Should add on four months to everyone's waiting orders.

Their test ride really is just a ride around their car park so I wouldn't go out of your way to go there unless you are in the area (I was). It was fun though seeing all the bikes and they were very nice, free coffee/tea while you wait etc but I believe you can get a longer test ride if you go to any cycle shows that Canyon attend. It did settle my mind though that I had made the right choice size wise.

Oh and the showroom lad knew nothing about the mudguards. I'll email Canyon again...

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bikezero | 5 years ago
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Should also mention that along with not 'going crazy' after a few months like Decathlon's cheaper small battery powered lights...(not responding correctly, or at all, to the on/off/sustain/flash button presses) the button's require more force to press. This means unlike their aforementioned lights, you won't find these flashing in your bag and pocket almost every time you take them out in the day to use later in the night.

 

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bikezero | 5 years ago
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https://www.decathlon.co.uk/vioo-clip-500-usb-set-black-id_8501200.html

I've been using these cheerfully cheap decathlon usb-chargable lights for near 6 months now. Very powerful indeed in terms of brightness, especially for the compact size.
I really would not want anything brighter.
They are lightweight and a very compact tidy fit.
Each light can flash or sustain either red or white light which is handy when fitting the lights since you don't have to test which one is back and front (there is no back and front, both are the same).
Heavy rain resistant and battery life seems great. Decathlon claim 9 hours in flashing mode. Mine never start dimming even after a few hours.
I'll be picking up another set next time i'm in Decathlon.

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Xenophon2 | 5 years ago
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Update:  Received word from Canyon that my bike will be delivered earlier than scheduled, I should get it around Feb. 4.  A lot more palatable than Feb. 28-Mar. 5 (but still a tidy difference compared to mid December as they initially announced).  

If anyone has a recommendation for a good, powerful headlight (preferably not too blinding for other traffic) that will attach to the funnily shaped cockpit, please shoot.  

 

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Chris Hayes replied to Xenophon2 | 5 years ago
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...Still time to cancel this fugly machine and get something beautiful.  You might even be able to go into a shop (after Xmas, of course), speak to someone, negotiate a decent price, develop a relationship and ride something away  1 

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andyjtiger | 5 years ago
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I had exactly the same bike on order.  Ordered early September with delivery due first week December.  Week before delivery came the email delaying until end February/Early March.

Cancelled within the hour and got a Giant Revolt on order from my LBS.  Won't be going near Canyon anytime soon, thats for sure.

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Weynb | 5 years ago
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I ordered a CF 8.0 SL as well, at the start of September, with a delivery date of first week in December.  Having heard nothing I contacted Canyon yesterday - during the second week in Dec. - who told me that the bike would now not be ready until 1st week in March.  This has screwed up my plans and needless to say I'm really p**sed off with both the delay and complete lack of info from their customer services.  By the time I get the bike (if I don't cancel the order) I'll have waited 6 months for it and they will be announcing the 2020 models a few months later!

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Kadinkski replied to Weynb | 5 years ago
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Weynb wrote:

I ordered a CF 8.0 SL as well, at the start of September, with a delivery date of first week in December.  Having heard nothing I contacted Canyon yesterday - during the second week in Dec. - who told me that the bike would now not be ready until 1st week in March.  This has screwed up my plans and needless to say I'm really p**sed off with both the delay and complete lack of info from their customer services.  By the time I get the bike (if I don't cancel the order) I'll have waited 6 months for it and they will be announcing the 2020 models a few months later!

That's astoundingly bad customer service, even for them. You're mad if you don't cancel the order.

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Xenophon2 | 5 years ago
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I ordered the CF 8.0 SL exactly 9 days ago in size M.  On the site it showed availability for delivery mid December.  Literally 3 minutes after hitting the button I received a mail mentioning delivery in the week of Feb 25 - 1 March.  Not that I'm pining away waiting for the bike but still....

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MTBRider456 | 5 years ago
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@longassballs Can't remember the exact spec - not the top end carbon frame, but the next carbon frame down, Di2, alloy rims.  In grey + Large.

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longassballs | 5 years ago
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What bike did you order? Guess it doesn't sound good for my copper 8.0 M due early Feb.

The mudguards still haven't appeared either

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MTBRider456 | 5 years ago
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My date for Mid November moved last week to early March 2019......I thought Canyon had grown out of this?

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brettoau | 5 years ago
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Well the estimated completion date of mid Nov for my Grail has just been delayed 3 weeks. Now I don't know if I will receive it in Australia by the time I leave on my cycling holiday just before Xmas. May have to cancel the order if so  2

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Grayl | 5 years ago
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Congratulations on your order longassballs. Good to hear the mudguards are coming soon. If you want a Grail sooner and if you'd be happy with a 2018 SLX 8.0 Di2 model they have various sizes available in the Outlet section of the website. They're called "Pure Cycling" which is apparently the name of the brand in Switzerland. Instead of "Canyon" on the downtube they have "Grail". I guess they may have the brake levers configured the opposite way round from UK norm if they were built for the Swiss market.

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longassballs | 5 years ago
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Saw the 2018 bike at Rapha in Manchester last weekend. Was one of those things though where there were 6 bikes and 6 staff in a big room and couldn't just look at the bikes. I still wasn't convinced about the bars swapping where the compliance was. The Canyon lad said the drops were now super stiff for sprinting but I said when would I be sprinting on this bike?

Said I was also interested in an Aeroad but would probably wait for a new version. He frowned and answered that there definitely wasn't one in the pipeline. I countered that the design is four years old and was prepared to wait a year or two. He still stridently denied it which made me doubt anything else he had to say. Though apparently the Grail mudguards are made by Topeak, out soon and have what he called full coverage - which I took to be longer than most proprietary fenders but not as long as actual full coverage. Not that I was expecting them to be anyway.

Saying all that... I came home and ordered a 8.0 Grail! Still not sure but saw that the delivery date had stretched to start if Feb and was totally unaware that you didn't have to pay until the due date. Seems ages away, but I guess it also gives me plenty of time to cancel if I change my mind...

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Grayl | 5 years ago
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Hi, just to clarify, it is the size 2XS and XS that come with 650B wheels, 140mm rotors and 52/36 crank. I believe the size S and above come with the specs on the website.

Longassballs, I bought the bike because of everything else about it and despite the cockpit but I do like the ability to hook my thumbs over the lower joint with the horizontal part when on descents. I spend most of the time on the hoods which are no different from those on a conventional handlebar. I haven't really tested the tops much yet so haven't noticed much difference from normal ones.

Thanks for the thoughts about mudguard fit. Please let us know how you get on with your mudguard fitting.

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longassballs | 5 years ago
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Oh! Forgot to ask! How the hell do those bars ride?

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longassballs | 5 years ago
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Yeah that is weird. I didn't pick that detail up when Grayl first posted it. Sounds like they ran out of 50/34 cranks? Not sure about the 40t cassette for myself. Originally I wanted it to pull double duty as a winter road bike but I've just bought a Felt VR for that, so maybe bigger jumps between the cogs won't be such an issue. Actually reconsidering whether I need a double at all...

Grayl, useful information, thanks. I don't think the front mounts will be a problem. Fitted a pair of mudguards before with eyelets half way up the inside of the fork and it was fine, just a little more unstable than if they were at the dropouts. Issue for you on an XS may be toe overlap only.

As for the rear, yeah, that's more unusual. *Might* again be more of a problem for you on a smaller bike as I have read that often a plastic temporary seat stay bridge is supplied as a fixing point but as per a comment at the bottom of this article (long read) https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/221187-12-best-mudguard-compatible-... this guy had no end of problems with only one size for medium/larger bikes made by BMC. The launch photos of the grail didn't look like they used a temp bridge though, from memory. I'm about to deal with manufacturers own mudguards myself as I will be trying to fit Felt's own mudguards on my new bike when I get it. Then all these own brand mudguards seem to be really short and leave you looking for a DIY mud flap solution.

Canyon are having some sort of event in the Rapha store in Manchester this weekend so I'm gonna go take a look myself at their range. Good op for anyone in the area

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Grayl | 5 years ago
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Great to hear that the Grail specific mudguards will be available soon! I have searched a lot online and so far have not found anything that would obviously fit the Grail using the eyelets. I have the 2018 model and I can say that the eyelets are not standard. They are smaller than the standard bottle-cage bolt size of M5. They must be either M4 or M3. Also, they are mostly not in standard places. At the rear there are a pair of eyelets part way up the seatstays on the inside, as well as one part way up the seat post around the height of the front derailleur attachment (not down by the bottom bracket as normal). There is no seatstay bridge nor a chainstay bridge so no fixing points there. At the front they are part way up the forks, again on the inside, as well as in the u at the top of the fork (i.e. facing down to the ground, not going horizontally through the bottom of the headtube).

Mine is size XS. It comes with 650B wheels. It also has 140mm disc rotors instead of 160mm and a 52/36 crank instead of 50/34. I have some 700C wheels with 25mm road tyres. The rims are quite wide with internal width of 21mm so the 25mm tyres actually come out at 28mm, and presumably smaller radius than on a narrower rim. The whole wheel and tyre combination is only 5mm larger radius than the 650B wheels with 40mm G-Ones. They fit fine on the Grail for me, with no toe overlap or any other problem.

 

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Gravelx21 replied to Grayl | 5 years ago
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Grayl wrote:

It also has 140mm disc rotors instead of 160mm and a 52/36 crank instead of 50/34.

I was a little confused when I received the bike with a 52/36 as every website spec states 50/34... not as versatile for the type of riding really. Enquired with Canyon and they say it’s an error on the website apparently.

Went out and fitted a 11-40T M8000 cassette and now over the moon with the cranks, flys on the flat and spins up hill. Running Di2 and the bike accepts the larger range cassette by just adjusting the B screw for anyone who’s interested. (Cage isn’t stretched either because of the derailleur length + standard extender)

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