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20 mph speed assistance limit for E-bikes?

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  • December 7, 2022 at 10:23 am #32363
    mattw

    Interesting little 10 minute vid arguing for the assistance cutout speed to be raised.

    Very well presented on a bike ride around London.

    For me it does not convince, since the case is based around wanting faster journeys when the main delayer is stop-start not speed, to ‘avoid blocking cycle lanes’ for faster people on normal bikes are actually routinely slower at about 10mph average, and so on.

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  • December 25, 2022 at 5:08 pm #1008911
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    wtjs

    I feel much safer at 20mph on
    I feel much safer at 20mph on the road bike than I do at 15mph on the cargo bike
    Maybe you do, but it’s not going to matter. E-bikes will be power-assisted up to the present legal speed- if you want higher speeds, go illegal or get a motorcycle

    December 25, 2022 at 10:32 am #1008909
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    Sriracha

    But eBikes are not limited to
    But eBikes are not limited to 15.5mph assistance. The limit applies only to those machines which benefit from the same light legislative touch that is applied to unassisted bicycles. If you want more assistance it is available, but naturally it comes with different legislation since it becomes too much of a stretch for the legislation designed to fit ordinary bicycles.

    December 24, 2022 at 10:07 pm #1008907
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    chrisonabike

    If some of those who’ll be
    If some of those who’ll be riding new 20mph+ ebikes will be the people who’re now driving cars* I’d say it’s a pretty strong one!

    * A large fraction of whom are reluctant to do less than the minimum speed limits, regardless of the conditions.

    December 24, 2022 at 9:36 pm #1008905
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    srchar

    I think it’s a pretty weak

    I think it’s a pretty weak counter. It assumes that everyone will pedal everywhere at 20mph regardless of the situation.

    December 24, 2022 at 3:20 pm #1008903
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    chrisonabike

    I’m more of a 20kmph type in
    I’m more of a 20kmph type in this one but my reasons are mostly with the expectation that these *will* be used cycle infra. Which is the exception in the UK ATM.

    The “20mph (or more) ebikes on streets and roads only” might possibly work better.

    However I can see another counter as being “most cycle crashes are single- vehicle. Now add another 5 or 10mph to many of those. That’s going to have worse consequences overall than the “not feeling so threatened by motorists approaching from the rear” positive. (Extra speed won’t have protective effect in other car- bike encounters).
    Same doesn’t affect cars to quite the same degree because their *occupants* are much better protected. Obviously extra speed makes it worse for those on the outside.

    December 24, 2022 at 1:49 pm #1008901
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    srchar

    20mph limit would be safer

    20mph limit would be safer given that lack of infrastructure puts most riders on the road.

    I feel much safer at 20mph on the road bike than I do at 15mph on the cargo bike. You get overtaken much less at 20 than 15, and are much more closely matched to motor vehicle speeds in urban areas.

    I can’t see an argument to keep eBikes at 15.5mph when cars can do 20 or 30, tbh.

    December 24, 2022 at 11:40 am #1008899
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    mattw
    hawkinspeter wrote:
    brooksby wrote:
    JustTryingToGetFromAtoB wrote:
    Sadly, the guards probably are telling truth. A long time ago, the first thing we taught them was to not lay a hand on a shop lifter. In the store, the goods are not stolen yet (even if hidden in a bag or stuffed up a jumper). Outside the store, they are not insured and may find themselves on an assault charge.

    Erm… So what are they being paid for, exactly?

    As a deterrence and to occasionally eject unwanted customers. I’ve seen some cardboard cutouts of police used in lieu of security guards at some bargain/pound shops.

    Thought they were present at various fuel stations.

    This started with cardboard cutouts of police cars back when they did speed checks from motorway bridges. The first ones I remembers were Rover 827 Liftbacks (ie Rondas). 

    They used to get stolen.

    The Waily Mail reports a stooshie in Edinburgh about a cardboard policemen holding a speed cameras in 2018.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5790905/The-ultimate-cost-cutting-drive-Fury-police-erect-CARDBOARD-cut-officer-deter-speeding.html

     

    December 18, 2022 at 9:50 am #1008897
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    Browsie

    You would have to be off your
    You would have to be off your trolley to ride that!, Or perhaps on your trolley ?, no!, I’ll get me coat !

    December 16, 2022 at 1:38 pm #1008895
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    Rezis

    No, it’s just where I can

    No, it’s just where I can keep my Jelly Babies.

    December 15, 2022 at 3:19 pm #1008893
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    mattw

    I’d use the “non classified

    I’d use the “non classified roads inside the community boundary default to 20mph speed limit” definition were I dictator, plus classified roads where there is no cycling infra. That would also cover small communities I think.

    December 15, 2022 at 3:16 pm #1008841
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    mattw

    Genuinely tricky one.

    Genuinely tricky one.

    Technically it would be based on disfunction, so presumably if you have a leg off for diabetic reasons you qualify.

    December 15, 2022 at 12:49 pm #1008891
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    duncanap

    I definitely qualify as “fair

    I definitely qualify as “fair sized unit” – six foot two, and when I started riding the e-bike I was 110 kg / 17 stone.

    I did the 27 km each way most days on the e-bike, after a year I switched to a normal bike. Two years after that I completed one of the seven day Haute Route events in the Pyrenees. I did a load of dieting and other lifestyle changes as well, but I am pretty sure I would not have been brave enough to do the initial commute without the e-bike. And by the end I was clearly putting in a fair amount of effort myself.

    I was always happy to see riders on my tail, it is pretty flat as well, so it wasn’t only the ultra elites. 

    December 15, 2022 at 10:16 am #1008889
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    Grahamd
    Rendel Harris wrote:
    Grahamd wrote:
    I read this and smiled and thought that would me. Then I calculated the numbers and realised otherwise.

    I’m sure you’re doing yourself an injustice, according to this: 

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/close-need-benefit-drafting-349941

    if the 45 km/h rider is a fair-sized unit and you tuck in right behind you are only going to need about 112 watts to keep up, for me (not exactly a mouse at 80kg) that’s about the power needed for 25 km/h riding solo.

    Thanks for the information, I clearly need a trip to Switzerland to put the theory into practice.

    December 15, 2022 at 9:54 am #1008887
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    Rendel Harris
    Grahamd wrote:
    I read this and smiled and thought that would me. Then I calculated the numbers and realised otherwise.

    I’m sure you’re doing yourself an injustice, according to this: 

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/close-need-benefit-drafting-349941

    if the 45 km/h rider is a fair-sized unit and you tuck in right behind you are only going to need about 112 watts to keep up, for me (not exactly a mouse at 80kg) that’s about the power needed for 25 km/h riding solo.

    December 15, 2022 at 8:54 am #1008885
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    Grahamd
    duncanap wrote:
    I did sometimes get the feeling of being a durney rider as some of the speedier real cyclists would slip stream me. 

    I read this and smiled and thought that would me. Then I calculated the numbers and realised otherwise.

     

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