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20 mph speed assistance limit for E-bikes?

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  • December 7, 2022 at 10:23 am #32363
    mattw

    Interesting little 10 minute vid arguing for the assistance cutout speed to be raised.

    Very well presented on a bike ride around London.

    For me it does not convince, since the case is based around wanting faster journeys when the main delayer is stop-start not speed, to ‘avoid blocking cycle lanes’ for faster people on normal bikes are actually routinely slower at about 10mph average, and so on.

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Viewing 15 replies - 46 through 60 (of 74 total)
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  • December 9, 2022 at 1:03 pm #1008821
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    Kapelmuur

    I saw a moped in Altrincham

    I saw a moped in Altrincham this morning, actually  commented to my wife that the guy would be putting his ride on Strava.   (Because I’ve spotted a few 30mph+ segments recently).

    December 9, 2022 at 12:57 pm #1008819
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    Rendel Harris

    Not sure it’s ever going to

    Not sure it’s ever going to be that desirable to allow bikes in supermarkets unless they drastically increase the size of the aisles. What is needed is sensibly located bike parking; my local Sainsbury’s has the bike park right by the main entrance and in full view of the security guard station, never had nor even heard of a bike being stolen from there in 20 years.

    December 9, 2022 at 12:48 pm #1008817
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    chrisonabike

    That’ll have you banned from

    That’ll have you banned from “supermarket sweep” like that!

    December 9, 2022 at 12:46 pm #1008815
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    chrisonabike

    Some places are apparently

    Some places are apparently quite accommodating if you ask nicely.  I met a chap who said his local supermarkets would allow him in on his folder.  However he did only have one leg so you might want to have a medical reason when you ask.

    December 9, 2022 at 12:35 pm #1008813
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    Rendel Harris

    Time for this?

    Time for this?

    https://cdn.road.cc/wp-content/uploads/roadcc/cart-bike-by-zieak.jpeg

    December 9, 2022 at 12:12 pm #1008811
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    wtjs

    the time it takes me on the

    the time it takes me on the bike is already close enough that it’s not a significant factor in deciding whether to ride or drive

    E-bikes are, of course, the Work of the Devil, but if we set that prejudice aside this statement supporting the present e-bike assistance speed limit is welcome. Legal high powered e-bikes that don’t burn your house down and which are entitled to use cycle infra are unwelcome to at least some of us

    December 9, 2022 at 11:37 am #1008809
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    HoarseMann
    chrisonatrike wrote:
    I don’t know where the 15.5mph / 25kmph thing originates but – whisper it – the same rules apply “on the continent”.  If you Google there appear to be EU directives about this.  They probably stole it from the UK though.

    I think the 15.5mph limit probably comes from the Dutch ‘snorfiets’, a moped with a maximum speed of 25kph that is permitted to use cycling infrastructure and where no helmet is required to ride (although this is changing).

    https://bikecity.amsterdam.nl/en/inspiration/mopeds/

    As much as the Dutch don’t like mopeds on the cycle lanes, I do think having to cater for moped traffic has resulted in a better standard of infrastructure.

    December 9, 2022 at 11:14 am #1008807
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    Tom_77

    My regular e-bike journey is

    My regular e-bike journey is 6 miles (each way). That takes around 30 minutes, if I drive instead then it’s usually 20 minutes (but sometimes more like 25 – 30 minutes). So the time it takes me on the bike is already close enough that it’s not a significant factor in deciding whether to ride or drive.

    What makes the biggest difference to me is safe, direct routes and somewhere to park the bike at the other end.

    December 9, 2022 at 9:26 am #1008805
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    Rezis

    20mph would be nice, but I’d

    20mph would be nice, but I’d rather it be accepted that I can walk around the supermarket with my bike using it as a trolley rather than have the faff and lack of security of leaving it outside, e-bike or analogue bike.

    Bike parking is still one of the biggest issues about using a bike for practical purposes.

    December 9, 2022 at 9:25 am #1008803
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    Jetmans Dad
    chrisonatrike wrote:
    I don’t know where the 15.5mph / 25kmph thing originates …

    In UK law, a two wheeled vehicle that has pedals and provides motorised assistance between 25 and 45km/h is classed as a moped, which have to be taxed and registered, and can only be ridden by those aged 16+, wearing a compulsory motorbike style helmet and holding a valid  licence having undergone some training. 

    Restricting eBikes to 25km/h means they are classed as bicycles and can be ridden by anyone. 

    At some point those moped rules probably need to be revisited as they are getting a bit long in the tooth now (when was the last time you saw an actual moped?) but that is what we are stuck with for now. 

    December 9, 2022 at 1:21 am #1008781
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    NOtotheEU

    If the UK already had a

    If the UK already had a blanket urban 20mph limit that was strictly enforced then I think this would be a great idea.

    The limit was not a carefully researched figure based on safety, we simply copied the existing Japanese 15.5mph limit instead of the American 20mph limit.

    My ebike stops assisting me at 15-ish mph (for my safety?) but I can coast (dangerously?) down a local hill on my unassisted bike from a push off and reach 25mph+ without pedalling so I’m not sure what the difference is.

    70%-ish of trips are less than 5 miles. If we want to get people who would automatically choose a car for these journeys onto bikes then slowing down vehicles and speeding up e-bikes makes the private car virtually pointless for many trips.

    We could also make the left lane of all urban dual carriageways a bus/cycle lane which might even demote private cars to third choice for most people making short trips in urban areas.

    December 8, 2022 at 11:05 pm #1008801
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    NOtotheEU

    When I said “we” I meant the

    When I said “we” I meant the EU as this was pre Brexit. 

    As for cycle infra, I’m guessing it will take many years to improve even a little and we’ll probably never get it on every urban street so people will still prefer their cars over bikes. The law could be changed tomorrow to match e-bikes and cars top speed limits at 20mph and instantly bikes would make more sense than cars for many more people. It wouldn’t cost much more than the price of changing all the speed limit signs too.

    On bus lanes I can only speak from my own experience. I’ve spent over 20 years travelling the same dual carriageway and for about half that time it had a bus lane almost the entire length with priority traffic lights at some junctions. That is now gone and it is just a plain dual carriageway. I can honestly say it went from a safe quick ride past queues of traffic every day riding in the middle of my own almost empty lane to a nightmare of threading through two lanes of gridlocked traffic or multiple dangerous 40mph+ close passes every trip. I know which I prefer.

    Of course we could just get drivers to be safer and more conside . . . . . . no sorry, I’m just being stupid now.

    December 8, 2022 at 10:26 pm #1008799
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    chrisonabike

    I like all those!  We know it

    I like all those!  We know it can be done, because others have done it.  And not just cities / countries who started from a much better place than the UK is now.

    I’d say 20 years is extremely ambitious!  We could save time though.  We can see the nuts and bolts of “what works”.  The UK even already has some “knowledge” of proper infra here.  We certainly know “what doesn’t work” here.  We could combine knowledge of our failures and eliminate things that are the same in the UK as where “it works” to help us spot the elephants in the room – the things we just can’t seem to see.

    However I think most people do know that really.  It’s just the vicious circle of “can’t move motor traffic from the number 1 spot”.  Plus our divvying up of public space for people can store their private property (cars) for free etc.  And “not invented here” is very prevalent in the UK.

    December 8, 2022 at 10:06 pm #1008797
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    Rendel Harris
    HoarseMann wrote:
    If you live in a city blessed with infrastructure and where 15.5mph is enough, you get one of those. If you’ve got a longer commute on rural roads and A-roads with next to no cycling infrastructure, you get a 20mph bike.

    That’s a fair shout I think; this is where geofencing could really come into its own.

    December 8, 2022 at 9:47 pm #1008795
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    HoarseMann

    Well maybe there’s an

    Well maybe there’s an argument for another category of e-bike, 20mph, no licence, registration, helmet or insurance requirement, but banned from shared paths and some cycle lanes. It’s not like the bikes don’t exist, it’s what the majority of e-bikes sold in the USA are limited to.

    If you live in a city blessed with infrastructure and where 15.5mph is enough, you get one of those. If you’ve got a longer commute on rural roads and A-roads with next to no cycling infrastructure, you get a 20mph bike.

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