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Help – carbon road bike.

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  • June 7, 2014 at 9:58 pm #21625
    bikegirl

    Hi all,

    I’m searching for my first road bike and my requirements are carbon + 105 groupset.

    My high-end choices are GIANT Avail Advance2, Ridley or Colnago CLD, all around the £2K mark.

    Then there are some cheaper options, which I’m strongly considering as this is my first road bike – Ribble and Norco Valence C3 Forma. I do like their frame colour and their geometry does fit me.

    Norco does not have the full 105 kit, which I can get with Ribble, but Ridley are currently out of stock for my frame size…

    My main question – is the carbon specification of these cheaper bikes much worse than the more expensive ones?

    Ribble = ‘mix of Toray T700/T800 carbon fibre’
    Norco = ’24T Mid-Modulus Carbon’

    I am not sure which of those two is better, does anyone know? I’ve also noticed that Ridley’s spec is 24t HM Unidirectional carbon – would HM (high modulus?) be much better than Mid-Modulus?

    Any big issues anyone sees with Norco that I’m missing? If I like the frame I’m guessing I can always upgrade the breaks and other non-105 parts in the future? Will I regret going for a Norco versus these high-end bikes?

    Thanks so much!

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  • June 12, 2014 at 1:12 am #798161
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    giobox

    Mrmiik wrote:
    Why not a

    Mrmiik wrote:

    Why not a quality aluminum bike? Some people just won’t want to ride carbon in winter – crashing on carbon “can” be more catastrophic than aluminum.

    This is based on what? A crash is a crash, and I really don’t think frame material is going to be all that big a factor in your injuries.

    If we’re talking repairability, damaged aluminium frames pretty much have to be thrown away after a crash too. It might still be metal, but very, very different from steel in this regard.

    June 12, 2014 at 1:07 am #798159
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    giobox

    +1 for the Cervelo R3 105.
    +1 for the Cervelo R3 105. Some great upgrade potential there too, you can get an R series down to some pretty silly low weights. Like the Canyon option, you’re also getting a frame with serious race pedigree.

    June 11, 2014 at 7:46 pm #798157
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    Mrmiik

    +1 on all this. You will also
    +1 on all this. You will also make your local bike shop mechanics happier 😉

    June 11, 2014 at 7:25 pm #798155
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    mtbtomo

    Just don’t worry about
    Just don’t worry about internal cabling.

    It might look neater and have very slight benefits for aero or in keeping the cables clean but…..
    -cables round the bb are normally exposed either way;
    -every time you want to change cables you need to feed a sleeve over the old cable and through the frame so you’re not fiddling trying impossibly to poke a cable through;
    – internally cable routing isn’t sometimes the best routing either – the cables on my externally routed bikes are all smoother.

    Some frames may have internal guiding but a lot don’t.

    June 11, 2014 at 7:14 pm #798153
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    Mrmiik

    Ok, on the groupset issue…
    Ok, on the groupset issue… from a personal perspective, if you were going to go Shimano, then you want 105 and upwards. 10 speed is perfectly fine – infact the chains and cassettes are cheaper, more compatibility… blah blah blah…

    105 suits most people fine, but in personal experience I have found Campag Veloce to be as good as Ultegra (on a bike riding trip my Veloce set up was far more reliable than my mates Ultegra (similar age of kit on both our bikes) – and I never adjust my derailleurs!). However, I ride in Belgium where the campag/shimano split is abit more even – so I can easily get it serviced over here, and I’ve never had issues getting my Campag bikes serviced in Cheshire or around Stoke-on-Trent!

    This is why I recommended the Cinelli – Stunning Italian bike and always gets loads of top reviews – you will find it in the ‘best bikes for a grand’ and best low cost racing bikes’.

    Regarding the brands you mentioned – Focus bikes are not available to order online and most shops in the UK will give you a bike fit as part of the package. I have a Focus Cross bike (With SRAM) and I bloody love it – when it comes to get a summer bike the Izalco is on my shortlist.

    Being a bike tart, I would be hesitant to go for the Planet X, but Ribble do what is essentially a debadged De Rosa frame (!!!) in lovely stealth black – and you can build it how you want.

    With the Canyon – you are close to getting the frame the guy who just won the Giro rides – great bikes.

    At the end of the day, you seem to be getting serious about the details of bikes. I managed to pass a load of guys who had resorted to pushing their De Rosas and Cervelos uphill and leave them for dust on my brother’s Genesis Volant 00 with 2300 (below Sora) on a sportive in Wales last month – it’s more about the engine at the end of the day.

    Anyhow feel free to disregard my advice, as mentioned I’m a bike tart with a penchant for all things Italian!

    June 11, 2014 at 6:42 pm #798151
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    bikegirl

    I have to thank everyone for
    I have to thank everyone for the suggestions, I’m really impressed with the level of support I got on this forum!

    I have to agree with notfastenough, I am steering clear of online purchases. I’m very keen on trying the bike and making sure it’s comfortable, etc.. I also want to use the cycle scheme voucher for £1000, so that won’t be possible with most of these online retailers (such as Canyon, from what I gathered on this forum). I would also love to be able to build the bike on my own, but that is unfortunately not possible at the moment. 🙂

    Mrmiik, I do consider racing in the future, but I don’t think I want Ultegra.. I actually heard some bad feedback about the Ultegra 11 speed related to the front derelleur, not sure how accurate this is, as I only heard from one person (a GIANT salesperson). In any case, I’ve seen the new 105 (5700 11 speed) online and the front derelleur seems similar to the Ultegra 11 speed, they surely would not make a mistake twice… If anyone has any info on this, I would appreciate it. But 105 seems to be a very reliable groupset, so I’ve decided to stick with it and save a bit of money there.. I could even get a carbon frame with Tiagra and then upgrade it to full 105 11 speed later (such as the model dreamlx10 suggested above for about £1000).

    Regarding the other suggestions, I had good feedback on Cubes, too. The carbon Cube frame has a good price, but no internal cable routing? And I did not really like the ALU frame colour scheme 🙁

    To address the bike fit comments, I have done a proper bike fit and the models I listed on my post all fit me. Scott does also fit me, but the Aluminium model I could go with (Contessa Speedster 15) is not available on my size…then the carbon models are more expensive than the ones short listed above. Treks don’t fit me well so they’re also ruled out.

    I have tried the Norco.. It did feel comfortable, it weights 880grams. The down tube on the bike seems a bit thick though. I haven’t yet reached a conclusion if this is a reputable carbon frame. If Norco does reputable carbon MTB bikes, the material would logically be good? It’s on sale from 1500 down to 1275 at the moment… I wonder how would this frame compare to a Focus, Canyon or Planet X as suggested above, all for around £1500?

    Regarding my location, I am in Berkshire, but can get to London very easily..

    Thanks again all!

    June 11, 2014 at 5:37 pm #798149
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    notfastenough

    Lots of cool stuff suggested,
    Lots of cool stuff suggested, but buying online (canyon for example) for your first road bike has danger written all over it.

    Bikegirl – question for you, where are you based? People here should be able to suggest good local road bike shops (although you may already have some lined up).

    June 11, 2014 at 4:27 pm #798147
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    Mrmiik

    Consider a Canyon or a Focus.
    Consider a Canyon or a Focus. But if you are spending up to 2k on a bike, I vote for a BMC Road Racer SLR02 or a Cannondale supersix evo (105 builds) if you are dropping serious money…

    You may be tempted to go for Ultegra but are you going to have a go at racing? If not – don’t bother. Really not going to be worth the extra couple of hundred that could go towards a better set of wheels. Also, quite frankly SRAM Force is far superior and cheaper than Ultegra – so keep an eye out for that.

    However I don’t think this is the answer.

    Why not a quality aluminum bike? Some people just won’t want to ride carbon in winter – crashing on carbon “can” be more catastrophic than aluminum.

    This is a superb machine – and it’s got Campag on…
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cinelli-experience-veloce-2014/

    June 11, 2014 at 3:31 pm #798145
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    MuddyGoose

    I bought a Mekk Poggio 1.5
    I bought a Mekk Poggio 1.5 for around £700 (sale price) so I guess that would be considered ‘cheap carbon’ but considering it’s Mekk own brand finishing kit/Sora and Shimano R500 wheels, 8.6 kg (my own weighing with pedals) is pretty light. And I can’t fault it for ride quality/stiffness/responsiveness etc. I’m sure I’d notice the difference if I rode a £7000 high end bike but that’s 10x more cash!

    Read my blog on it if you like – poggiodelre.wordpress.com

    These bikes are still available on Wiggle in certain sizes with various specs. You can take the Ultegra Di2 version for £1500 if you fit a 47 cm frame!

    Alternatively have you looked at the Planet X bikes? They do women specific and you can have Ultegra on the RT-58 for £1399.

    June 11, 2014 at 11:42 am #798143
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    lukea-d

    How about the Focus
    How about the Focus Donna?
    The 2.0 model comes with 105 at £1,599:
    http://www.thebikelist.co.uk/focus/izalco-donna-2-0-2014

    the 1.0 with Ultegra for £1,999:
    http://www.thebikelist.co.uk/focus/izalco-donna-1-0-2014

    However, if you look through the sale/clearance section of any of the main retailers you’ll find excellent deals on previous years’ female-specific bikes. You could probably find a £3k bike for your £2k budget.

    June 11, 2014 at 10:16 am #798141
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    Miles253

    From what ive heard, Focus,
    From what ive heard, Focus, Canyon and Rose all offer superd value for money, all offering a good carbon frame with at least 105 for under £2000. Most in fact have Ultegra. Cayo evo, Ultimate Cf SL, etc

    June 11, 2014 at 7:03 am #798139
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    Colin Peyresourde

    I agree with the comment
    I agree with the comment about going for carbon and Ultegra. Although as far as upgrades go 106 to Ultegra is not the biggest jump. Dura Ace is when you start getting the metal detector out and panhandling.

    June 11, 2014 at 6:55 am #798137
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    mooleur

    For £2k, you can pick up a
    For £2k, you can pick up a great Trek frame with Ultegra – if that’s your budget you’re doing very well! You could pick up a 105 for much less. 🙂

    NB Trek do very nice women’s specific frames too.

    I’ll throw an annoying spanner in the works and maybe suggest you have a look at the Sensa range from http://www.merlincycles.com – you can get high quality carbon (comparable to s-works) with full ultegra for 1.5k.

    The Giants seem to get great reviews though, it’s all really down to your body geometry though. Check which frames out of your selection would suit you best if you’ve longer/shorter legs etc.

    I’ve a few friends who have Ribbles, they don’t race but they seem to get on well with them for sportives and the like.

    June 11, 2014 at 5:28 am #798135
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    chiv30

    Just for info …..my 2nd
    Just for info …..my 2nd bike(now my regular ride) is a canyon ultimate cf 8 with kyserium elites and full ultegra ritchey finishing kit for 1500 from their outlet, if you know ur geometry and you’re either very tall (or short like me) then you will get a carbon bargain if you really do need / want carbon

    June 11, 2014 at 2:35 am #798133
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    timtak

    > Not a good (or accurate)
    > Not a good (or accurate) description of the effect of carbon on a road bike.
    Welsh boy writes before going on to say that Carbon does act as suspension (“carbon does not transmit vibration in the same way as steel or aluminium so you tend to feel the road vibration less”).

    mtbtomo writes
    > Having seen some of the weights of low end carbon frames, its not necessarily better than alloy.

    Weight difference is not the main issue. I love my cheap carbon framed bikes for providing suspension. This is the main thing I want to say. When comparing Carbon and Aluminium the 1KG difference in weight would not justify the near doubling in price of the frame. But, depending on your weight, and need for suspension, the way that “you tend to feel the road vibration less,” [it] “will make the road bumps and general chatter feel muted” is worth the price differential.

    Mtbtomo writes
    > Alloy will feel much more immediate and snappy to accelerate versus cheaper carbon.
    Yes, but how much does the acceleration matter to cyclists on the roads? There are lots of people out on the roads on Mountain bikes with full on suspension that accelerate really badly. Despite being so much heavier lots of people are riding MTBs on the roads for the suspension that they provide.

    Suspension becomes less and important the thinner you are. On the other hand, you are carrying more than 20kg above your ideal weight then rather than a carbon road bike, a mountain bike with front fork suspension, perhaps a 29er, might provide a ride quality that gets you on your bike more.

    Mtbtomo writes
    > Carbon will make the road bumps and general chatter feel muted and slightly less harsh. Cheap or not, that should be a ride characteristic most carbon bikes will exhibit.
    Yes, 100% agreed.

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